HighMarshalAmp Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 I'm going for about 1000 pts, 800 would be perfect. I want to use 2, maybe 3 MSU Sternguard Squads for 90 pts each. Also, I want to have 3 Tac Squads for the CP. That means I need 1 other HQ as well. The Captain needs to have a Combi-Plasma for the looks of it (Yes, that's the only reason.), so that's about 90 pts for him. I don't want to go full-on Plasma on these, that's what my Dark Angels will do. The point of this list is to provide backfield fire support and holding objectives closer to my edge. With all that in mind, what would you add to this? HQ [89 pts] Captain [89 pts] -Combi-Plasma Troops [195 pts] Tac Squad [65 pts] Tac Squad [65 pts] Tac Squad [65 pts] Elites [180 pts] Sternguard [90 pts] Sternguard [90 pts] Total [464 pts] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Whirlwinds? Low threat, bigger guns than a bolter, "cheap". Sentry guns (if FW is allowed)? Many bullets, but static positioning. Razorbacks? Mobility if needed, more guns on field, possibly lower threat than Whirlwinds. Predators? Proven lead farmers. More bodies? I mean, more targets dilutes enemy targeting opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 If the objective is backfield objective camping and fire support, I would recommend: Scouts and Intercessors both are better at this task than tacticals My preferred method to flush out those remaining points EITHER: 1) A unit of Boltstorm Aggressors to be used in tandem with Strike from the Shadows or 2) a 2x Twin Autocannon or 2x Twin Lascannon dread - this leverages the Chapter Tactic For the other HQ, I would probably take either an LT or Librarian. The LT is the more obvious/efficient choice, however, the Librarian can fill a niche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Assuming you don’t want to alter what you have in place. To get to 800 points Add Plasma gun to the Tac squads Add a second Captain Add two AC Razorbacks Alternative to Razorbacks is full 6 man squad of Aggressors. Just so good as Raven Guard unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Devastators with big guns. You lack long range and devs have it. Scout bikes. You lack speed and scout bikers have it. A jump pack captain with a thunder hammer and the shield eternal. You lack anything that can fly and a jump captain flies. An LT... There are a lot of things that wound on 3s like bolters vs eldar/guard, lascannons vs everything, plasma vs most things, heavy bolters vs marines. Rolling 1s to wound is complete BS. Stop doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAmp Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 I was thinking Heavy Bolters or Lascannons on the Tac Marines. Ranged combat is the point of these guys after all. All needs CC will be covered by Jump-Packed Black Templars (Marshal Amp actually has a Jump Pack, Shield and Hammer - I need to post a pic of him), and one of these days, I'll do 400-800pts of DA Ravenwing for speed. These are only one of 3 forces I want to play at a time - I try to get to 800pts with most of my chapters, with some 400pts Detachments to mix and match to get to 2000pts. Also, while I absolutely like the crunch of the Primaris models, I'm trying to stick to Oldmarines. And of those, I like the models wearing Power Armor the best. So that's what I'm building my lists around. Oldmarines Infantry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 I was thinking Heavy Bolters or Lascannons on the Tac Marines. Ranged combat is the point of these guys after all. All needs CC will be covered by Jump-Packed Black Templars (Marshal Amp actually has a Jump Pack, Shield and Hammer - I need to post a pic of him), and one of these days, I'll do 400-800pts of DA Ravenwing for speed. These are only one of 3 forces I want to play at a time - I try to get to 800pts with most of my chapters, with some 400pts Detachments to mix and match to get to 2000pts. Also, while I absolutely like the crunch of the Primaris models, I'm trying to stick to Oldmarines. And of those, I like the models wearing Power Armor the best. So that's what I'm building my lists around. Oldmarines Infantry. Then grab some devs with big guns. Plasma inceptors are great too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 With the stipulation of using Oldmarines, here is my list for you: Raven Guard Battalion Detachment (+5CP) - 800pts 129 - Captain - Combi-Plasma, Thunder Hammer, Jump Pack 93 - Lieutenant - Combi-Plasma, Teeth of Terra, Jump Pack 75 - Tactical Squad - Heavy Bolter 75 - Tactical Squad - Heavy Bolter 75 - Tactical Squad - Heavy Bolter 180 - Sternguard Veteran Squad 173 - Venerable Dreadnought - Twin Autocannon & Twin Lascannon Every units leverages our CT. I put both Sternguard into one unit so you can SFTS them for 1 CP. You can either SFTS the Captain/Lieutenant as well, or you can Deep Strike them in to save the CP (depending on need/deployment, etc). Id magnetize the Dread so you can go back and forth between 4 Lascannons or 4 Autocannons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Okay, so power armored Raven Guard fire support. I’d be using a second Captain designed to run with the Sternguard (Deathwatchesque) but the Libby Captain and Lieutenant make for a deterrent for nasty Turn Two surprises in the backfield. ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [48 PL, 799pts] ++ + HQ [11 PL, 185pts] + Captain [5 PL, 89pts]: Chainsword, Combi-plasma, Storm of Fire, Teeth of Terra, Warlord Librarian [6 PL, 96pts]: Bolt pistol, Force stave + Troops [15 PL, 270pts] + Tactical Squad [5 PL, 90pts] . 3x Space Marine . Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun/Bolt pistol . Space Marine w/ Lascannon Tactical Squad [5 PL, 90pts] . 3x Space Marine . Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun/Bolt pistol . Space Marine w/ Lascannon Tactical Squad [5 PL, 90pts] . 3x Space Marine . Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun/Bolt pistol . Space Marine w/ Lascannon + Elites [14 PL, 204pts] + Sternguard Veteran Squad [7 PL, 102pts] . Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun . Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun . Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun . Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun . Veteran Sergeant: Power fist, Special issue boltgun Sternguard Veteran Squad [7 PL, 102pts] . Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun . Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun . Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun . Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun . Veteran Sergeant: Power fist, Special issue boltgun + Heavy Support [8 PL, 140pts] + Devastator Squad [8 PL, 140pts]: Armorium Cherub . Space Marine Sergeant w/ Boltgun/Bolt pistol . Space Marine w/ Missile launcher . Space Marine w/ Missile launcher . Space Marine w/ Heavy bolter . Space Marine w/ Heavy bolter ++ Total: [48 PL, 799pts] ++ You might notice I have a fondness for power fist. Cheaper than a TH and I like to make my opponent pay a price for charging a ranged unit. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAmp Posted June 8, 2018 Author Share Posted June 8, 2018 I was set on the Lascannons for a long time, but I'm facing a lot of MEQ Infantry and practically zero vehicles. Are Lascannons worth their points against armies with 4, maybe 5 multi-wound models? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 I was set on the Lascannons for a long time, but I'm facing a lot of MEQ Infantry and practically zero vehicles. Are Lascannons worth their points against armies with 4, maybe 5 multi-wound models? Lascannons with rerolls are OKAY against MEQ. Plasma is obviously the best but at 48" you could do a lot worse than lascannons. Have any plasma cannon devs on your shelf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAmp Posted June 8, 2018 Author Share Posted June 8, 2018 I was set on the Lascannons for a long time, but I'm facing a lot of MEQ Infantry and practically zero vehicles. Are Lascannons worth their points against armies with 4, maybe 5 multi-wound models? Lascannons with rerolls are OKAY against MEQ. Plasma is obviously the best but at 48" you could do a lot worse than lascannons. Have any plasma cannon devs on your shelf? Yep - but they're gonna be Dark Angels.Grim Resolve + Weapons of the Dark Age is just too good to pass on... I do have 2 Grav Cannons left though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAmp Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 Update: I just did the maths for Tac Squads vs MEQs - whoa! Combi-Plasma and Grav Cannon is, going by the averages, the most efficient combo by far - even in terms of points per wound, it's second only to Plasma Gun + Heavy Bolter! So yeah, that's what I'm going for... range is nice, sure, but no later than turn 3, the enemies are gonna get closer than 24" anyway, and I want them to regret that :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Second only to ... So HB /Pg is the best combo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seriade Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Okay, so power armored Raven Guard fire support. I’d be using a second Captain designed to run with the Sternguard (Deathwatchesque) but the Libby Captain and Lieutenant make for a deterrent for nasty Turn Two surprises in the backfield. You might notice I have a fondness for power fist. Cheaper than a TH and I like to make my opponent pay a price for charging a ranged unit. Power fists are cheaper then the th but the th is so much superior for a few more points. As for giving tacs heavy weapons heavy bolters are best maybe a plasma cannon if you need to focus on meq. Lascannons are best in dev squads. Because we are ravenguard you want to focus on making your fire base occupy mid-table to do that you should be investing in scouts. Even at lower points you need to be working on controlling table space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAmp Posted June 17, 2018 Author Share Posted June 17, 2018 Second only to ... So HB /Pg is the best combo? Let me rephrase that: it's the combo that promises the most wounds - 3+ save accounted for. And even considering the cost it's the way to go seeing as there's only one combination that costs less points per expected wound, which is HB+PG, but the Grav Cannon promises more than double the wounds the HB will dish out on average, so where you might take a HB, those extra points for the GC might be points well spent in most MEQ scenarios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAmp Posted June 18, 2018 Author Share Posted June 18, 2018 Okay, so power armored Raven Guard fire support. I’d be using a second Captain designed to run with the Sternguard (Deathwatchesque) but the Libby Captain and Lieutenant make for a deterrent for nasty Turn Two surprises in the backfield. You might notice I have a fondness for power fist. Cheaper than a TH and I like to make my opponent pay a price for charging a ranged unit. Power fists are cheaper then the th but the th is so much superior for a few more points. As for giving tacs heavy weapons heavy bolters are best maybe a plasma cannon if you need to focus on meq. Lascannons are best in dev squads. Because we are ravenguard you want to focus on making your fire base occupy mid-table to do that you should be investing in scouts. Even at lower points you need to be working on controlling table space. I basically agree on the TH vs PF, but in my case, 1D is enough to kill most enemies for now, so the PF is just as good a choice - pity you can't magnetize the Power Fists as easily... As for the Heavy Weaponry: The only thing the HB and the Plasma Cannon really have more of than my current favorite, the Grav Cannon, is range. Now range is important, with the PC and the HB both clocking in at 12" more than the GC. Thing is, to deal the average wounds the GC dishes out in one turn, the PC needs two turns (it is the exact same number of wounds then btw, 1,296). So only if you overcharge the PC at least once or if you don't manage to close a 12" gap in two turns or less, the PC has the edge. The HB? In two turns of firing, that thing doesn't cause as many wounds as the GC in one. 'nuff said. But the whole point of the Raven Guard is being harder to hit, you say. And range enables you to shoot the enemy before he can even target you. Yes, that is completely 100% correct. And that's why I still haven't primed the GC/ PG combo. Maybe I should add in some 48" range after all. BTW, and again, this is against MEQs, the Lascannon and the Krak Missile cause both the same amount of wounds and the same damage on average. The Lascannons only 'edges' are a) the S9 over the Krak Missiles S8 which doesn't come into play against MEQs - and when will it ever really make a difference anyway? - and b) -1AP. Which is sweet. But maybe worth sacrificing for the Frag Missile option. Furthermore, with the assumed 12" gap however, two turns with a Frag Missile will, on average, cause more wounds than one turn with a Heavy Bolter. So maybe I'll go with MLs just for the range? The MEQ meta tends to sport weapons with a range of 24" or less and a lot of Melee Weapons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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