Equipping Blight Lord Terminators

[Lord_Bubon]

Hello fellow Death Guards,

 

New poster here so I thought I'd introduce myself briefly. I have been playing Death Guard/Nurgle Deamons since sixth edition and 40K since... well, since forever. I played more in tournaments a couple of years ago - because of time restrictions I play more at the club these days. The environment is quite competitive and I am happy to play against other players testning their lists for tournaments.

 

Now, I am building a unit of 10 Blight Lord Terminators and I am pondering what to equip them with. They will be quite a substantial part of a 1500 point list. The idea behind the list is that I will push out with a screen of pox walkers and cultists turn one and drop the Termies behind the screen turn two protected by cloud of flies. I am looking to advance, shoot and charge the whole army basically, in order to control the board and stop the enemy shooting me. 

 

I have decided to equip two Blight Lords with flails and two with Blight Launchers. The main debate I am having with myself if I should arm the rest with combimelta or combiplasma. These are my thoughts:

 

Combiplasma pros

----------------------

Better range

More shots

Better att killing infantry 

 

Combiplasma cons

----------------------

Hesitant to overcharge due to lack of prescience. I will not ally a CSM sorc.

- 1 to hit from hard to hit or army wide rules makes overcharging basically impossible

Lackluster damage against multi wound models (the Blight Lords themselves are pretty lackluster in combat against multi wound models too)

 

Combimelta pros

--------------------

Gives me the antitank/anti-monster my army is lacking

Can advance and shoot all guns with Death Guard army rule

 

Combimelta cons

--------------------

Short ranged

Few shots

Worse at killing infantry

 

My main issue with the combimelta is the range. Since I plan to hide behind a screen with cloud of flies, will I be out of range with the meltas most of the time? In that case the bolters will at least let me shoot some, but I don't want my 560+ unit to mainly fire bolters.

 

Perhaps you gentlemen can aid me in this my internal debate? 

[happyslugger]

Hi there, 

 

I do not play competitively at all but my terminators have 1 flail, 1 blight launcher and the rest (3) combi plasma.  I like the double tapping range we get over some other armies.  I find it helps as most of the army is so slow.

 

Just my 2p I am sure others will have different opinions.  

 

I usually use my terminators to DS near or on an enemy objective and then hopefully sit there soaking up fire.  

[TURBULENCE]

I run mine almost the same as above, but I went with melta over plasma, but can't really put in a lot of feedback because they honestly don't make most of my lists, and I haven't had a chance to test them yet. I just liked them that way, and it seemed the best use of them for my small casual meta. I leave plasma to my plague Marines, who I feel are better for that.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

One of the vets on this forum, Prot, swears by the comb melta.

 

In an army that have very few ways of Reliably facing tanks you might want to consider them for hard targets

[Kangaaxx]

I am sorry but Blightlords are not  very good post FAQ.

- You can't put them cloud of flies after deepstrike
- You can't warptime them after deepstrike
- They can deepstrike T2

[Lord_Bubon]

My reading of the Cloud of flies stratagem is that I can play it during the movement phase. This seems to work with deepstriking termies, but I might be mistaken.

[Lord_Bubon]

Thanks for your replies so far. What arguments are heard from those that swear by melta?

[Charlo]

DG lack Anti-tank outside of Mortarion or Lascannon Predators/ Brutes, Combi-melta let the Blight Lords burn through armour for you with decent precision.

[Kangaaxx]

My reading of the Cloud of flies stratagem is that I can play it during the movement phase. This seems to work with deepstriking termies, but I might be mistaken.

If I set up a unit on the battlefield as reinforcements at the end of my Movement phase, can I then use any Stratagems that are used ‘during your Movement phase’? A: No, unless the Stratagem specifically says otherwise

 

Believe me, i am also quite disappointed

[Prot]

One of the vets on this forum, Prot, swears by the comb melta.

 

In an army that have very few ways of Reliably facing tanks you might want to consider them for hard targets

 

 

Well by 'swear by the combi melta' I'd say that's with consideration to the army load out and opponent.

 

I've done dozens of games going back and forth. Truthfully there's a lot of mileage in the Blightlauncher when you're running Arch Contaminator near by. 

 

All I can say is when I build my Death Guard they are going for volume of mediocre firepower wounding, with very low damage per failed save. The Combimelta on my Blightlords is absolutely essential and I've never been convinced (through several games, not 'theory hammer') that the combi-plasma works -for me-. 

 

Lots of people love the Combi Plasma. I find I have tons of mediocre damage, and I personally hate overcharging plasma plus there's so much -1 to hit in the competitive scene it's ridiculous.

 

The fact is if I took more metal boxes, I would definitely put the odd meltagun on a Plaguemarine squad or two, and go full tilt towards the opponent's metal boxes. The Blightlords that are tooled to overcharge plasma at hard targets also carry the additional issue of heavily relying on a re-roll aura to prevent death by overheating weapons.

 

The thing with Blightlords is they are super tricky to play now. Terminators overall are in a very poor spot in 8th edition right now. Almost everything can affect their AP negatively (unlike 7th ed). The compensation for that is supposed to be 2 wounds, but again we're at a point where lots of shooting is multi-damage, or exploding dice etc....

 

 

BUT that being said I think our Cataphractii provide a few reasons to still try it out in fun games. (I just played a game with 5 of them against Blood Angels).  They are tough, rugged, and with FnP they can be really annoying to get rid of. The additional issue with them is they are horrendously slow. So placement is pretty key and it's why I load mine out to be multi-functional so if they are out of CC, they can still do some damage at range. 

[BlackTriton]

I love maltagun anywhere i can find them, even though they feel overpriced on most units.

on a large Blight lord unit there may be value in mixing weapons, then split fire.

also, I think plasma is simply inferior if you are not willing to overcharge it, and is better on cheaper platform for that reason.

[Bulwyf]

One of the vets on this forum, Prot, swears by the comb melta.

 

In an army that have very few ways of Reliably facing tanks you might want to consider them for hard targets

 

PBC and blight haulers do wonders for me. I also run with 3 plasma guns per PM squad. People have learned not to bring too many vehicles against me. That's not even counting helbrutes or my Levi dread.

 

We have ways of dealing with anti vehicle. Frankly with the beta rules in place now termies for all armies are useless. I hate it but it is the truth. For their value for their points cost you are far better going with anything else.

[happyslugger]

I don't run into too many tanks either...mainly marine bodies (although I am up against a Knight list this weekend - my sons new knights).

 

I think the last game my son brought his Repulsor out it was annihilated by my Deathshroud, but I did get off a massive charge roll (forget what it was now). 

 

I also run plasma and blight launchers in my PM's and drones which I find useful to tie up any metal boxes. I don't have any melta on marines/terminators (I have some PMs I havent' painted yet, one of which has a melta).

 

I think it depends on what/who/how competitive you play.

[McElMcNinja]

I recently played against Tryanids (2k points) and decided to breakout my Blightlords. I brought a unit of 10 armed with axes, 2 blight launchers, 2 combi-meltas, a flail, and the rest combi- bolters. I had planned on dropping them with a Chaos Lord in Terminator armor, but I had a DP near by with a Helbrute where I placed them so the Lord went elsewhere. I put them just out of 9" from 3 Carnifex and One Eye turn 2. I was able to cast Blades on them before I started shooting. Bolter fire was very ineffective against them while the 2 combi-meltas/blight launchers (and a multi-melta from the Helbrute) significantly wounded 2 of them. After I charged with all 3 units he was down to a severely wounded fex and One Eye.

The next turn he charged in with a Trygon and One Eye (whom I didn't engage in the prior turn). After the ensuing melee and his stratagem allowing him to attack again, I was down to 1 Blightlord, my DP, and Brute. While all he had left was One Eye. The next turn I finished him off, but I had lost all my Blightlords.

My unit was 504 points and had I equipped the rest with combi-meltas it would have been close to 600. I really think those extra points would have saved my unit. But that was just for this fight, against troop types I think my setup would have been perfect.

In short I will probably add the meltas, but it really is a preference thing for me. I like meltas over plasma/flamers and want to be able to deal with those situations.

[Closet Skeleton]

I personally swear by combi-bolters on blight lords, but I consider them disposable distractions and have never fought a tank heavy list that I didn't luck out on objectives.

 

FAQ will hurt them but I didn't always drop them on turn 1 anyway.

[Kangaaxx]

I recently played against Tryanids (2k points) and decided to breakout my Blightlords. I brought a unit of 10 armed with axes, 2 blight launchers, 2 combi-meltas, a flail, and the rest combi- bolters. I had planned on dropping them with a Chaos Lord in Terminator armor, but I had a DP near by with a Helbrute where I placed them so the Lord went elsewhere. I put them just out of 9" from 3 Carnifex and One Eye turn 2. I was able to cast Blades on them before I started shooting. Bolter fire was very ineffective against them while the 2 combi-meltas/blight launchers (and a multi-melta from the Helbrute) significantly wounded 2 of them. After I charged with all 3 units he was down to a severely wounded fex and One Eye.

The next turn he charged in with a Trygon and One Eye (whom I didn't engage in the prior turn). After the ensuing melee and his stratagem allowing him to attack again, I was down to 1 Blightlord, my DP, and Brute. While all he had left was One Eye. The next turn I finished him off, but I had lost all my Blightlords.

My unit was 504 points and had I equipped the rest with combi-meltas it would have been close to 600. I really think those extra points would have saved my unit. But that was just for this fight, against troop types I think my setup would have been perfect.

In short I will probably add the meltas, but it really is a preference thing for me. I like meltas over plasma/flamers and want to be able to deal with those situations.

Hum 600pts, the price of a Dominus class Imperial knight... I am confused at the moment

[Panzer]

It honestly doesn't sound too farfetched.

It's a unit with T5 W20 Sv2+/4++/5+++, 10 shots at BS3+ S8 AP-4 D1d6 and 21 attacks at WS3+ S5 AP-1 D1 (assuming axes on everyone)

vs a unit with T8 W28 Sv3+/5++(against shooting only), 2d6 shots at BS3+ S7/8 AP-3 D1/2, 4 shots at S8 AP-4 D1d6, 4d3 shots at S7 AP-1 D1d3, 1d6 shots at S14 AP-4 D3d3 and 12 attacks at WS4+ S8 AP-2 D1d3 (the Castellan variant since the Valiant is only 10 points cheaper but with a lot less firepower)

 

Sure the Knight is a lot better when it comes to pure damage output but the Blightlords should be able to tank more since whenever a wound does more than 2 damage or more than 1 damage when a model has only 1 wound left the opponent wastes damage and having superior saves and having disgunstingly resilient on top of that.

 

Imo the Knight is better, yes definitely, but the Blightlords aren't THAT far behind. The Blightlords are also better for objectives considering they can deep strike, have more models in the unit (a unit of 2 and the Knight can't hold any objective) and gain easily cover in ruins unlike the Knight. The main problem of Blightlords is that they're in an army with lots of other expensive models. A problem all Marines have with their fancy stuff.

[Tokugawa]

 

It honestly doesn't sound too farfetched.

It's a unit with T5 W20 Sv2+/4++/5+++, 10 shots at BS3+ S8 AP-4 D1d6 and 21 attacks at WS3+ S5 AP-1 D1 (assuming axes on everyone)

vs a unit with T8 W28 Sv3+/5++(against shooting only), 2d6 shots at BS3+ S7/8 AP-3 D1/2, 4 shots at S8 AP-4 D1d6, 4d3 shots at S7 AP-1 D1d3, 1d6 shots at S14 AP-4 D3d3 and 12 attacks at WS4+ S8 AP-2 D1d3 (the Castellan variant since the Valiant is only 10 points cheaper but with a lot less firepower)

 

Sure the Knight is a lot better when it comes to pure damage output but the Blightlords should be able to tank more since whenever a wound does more than 2 damage or more than 1 damage when a model has only 1 wound left the opponent wastes damage and having superior saves and having disgunstingly resilient on top of that.

 

Imo the Knight is better, yes definitely, but the Blightlords aren't THAT far behind. The Blightlords are also better for objectives considering they can deep strike, have more models in the unit (a unit of 2 and the Knight can't hold any objective) and gain easily cover in ruins unlike the Knight. The main problem of Blightlords is that they're in an army with lots of other expensive models. A problem all Marines have with their fancy stuff.

 

 

If 600pts was spent on Obliterators, that are about...36 shots? Before shenanigans like cacophony.

 

Both chaos deepstriking Anti-tank units, Blightlords paid for 4+isv, FNP and melee potential. Obliterators just paid for shots, shots and more shots.

 

If Knights is becoming more and more popular, chaos players need their answer.

[Panzer]

 

It honestly doesn't sound too farfetched.

It's a unit with T5 W20 Sv2+/4++/5+++, 10 shots at BS3+ S8 AP-4 D1d6 and 21 attacks at WS3+ S5 AP-1 D1 (assuming axes on everyone)

vs a unit with T8 W28 Sv3+/5++(against shooting only), 2d6 shots at BS3+ S7/8 AP-3 D1/2, 4 shots at S8 AP-4 D1d6, 4d3 shots at S7 AP-1 D1d3, 1d6 shots at S14 AP-4 D3d3 and 12 attacks at WS4+ S8 AP-2 D1d3 (the Castellan variant since the Valiant is only 10 points cheaper but with a lot less firepower)

 

Sure the Knight is a lot better when it comes to pure damage output but the Blightlords should be able to tank more since whenever a wound does more than 2 damage or more than 1 damage when a model has only 1 wound left the opponent wastes damage and having superior saves and having disgunstingly resilient on top of that.

 

Imo the Knight is better, yes definitely, but the Blightlords aren't THAT far behind. The Blightlords are also better for objectives considering they can deep strike, have more models in the unit (a unit of 2 and the Knight can't hold any objective) and gain easily cover in ruins unlike the Knight. The main problem of Blightlords is that they're in an army with lots of other expensive models. A problem all Marines have with their fancy stuff.

 

 

If 600pts was spent on Obliterators, that are about...36 shots? Before shenanigans like cacophony.

 

Both chaos deepstriking Anti-tank units, Blightlords paid for 4+isv, FNP and melee potential. Obliterators just paid for shots, shots and more shots.

 

If Knights is becoming more and more popular, chaos players need their answer.

 

 

Yeah I said the damage output isn't comparable.

[Bulwyf]

My local meta has went Knight crazy. Either running full Knight lists or having them tucked in a space marine/IG army.

[Panzer]

How do full Knight lists in objective games in your local meta? Against Marines probably not too terrible but how about against armies with actual board presence like Tyranid hordes and such?

[Tokugawa]

 

How do full Knight lists in objective games in your local meta? Against Marines probably not too terrible but how about against armies with actual board presence like Tyranid hordes and such?

 

"Yes, yes, you are right, my list is not competitive. But I just want to play a PURE <Knight>(or replace this word with other faction name) army."

 

Haven't you meet such players?

[Panzer]

 

How do full Knight lists in objective games in your local meta? Against Marines probably not too terrible but how about against armies with actual board presence like Tyranid hordes and such?

 

"Yes, yes, you are right, my list is not competitive. But I just want to play a PURE <Knight>(or replace this word with other faction name) army."

 

Haven't you meet such players?

 

 

Of course? That wasn't the question tho.

I(!) am interested in how a full Knight list is doing in those matches. Nothing more. Not trying to make any statement about how competetive such armies or whatever. Just pure curiousity.

[Bulwyf]

They shoot everything off the board. They don't have to worry about objectives when you table the other army. The only times I've seen them lose is when horde armies could sit on enough objectives to wait out the turn limit.

[Panzer]

That's worrisome but probably means they'll get nerfed quite quickly if they perform like that on tournaments as well.