Marshal Rohr Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Guilliman didn’t force his adaptations onto the other legions until the Codex Reformation, when most Primarchs were already dead. Also, it’s a little weird to think that if something works, other Primarchs would be sensitive about others copying it. Imagine if that applied to anything else in a military. Attack helicopters can only be with one group in the military because the guy that came up with them was upset if anyone else tried? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCagh Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 That's not what I'm saying though. I'm saying having your work constantly 'inspected' gets agitating, especially if the one reviewing all your work is just a peer whose taken it upon themselves to act like your supervisor. Isn't that the canonical reason Alpharius didn't like Guilliman? Another in universe reason could be his brothers think Guilliman had it the easiest growing up. They could look at Guilliman's successes and think 'yeah, well, you were playing on easy mode. Try starting with nothing like we did.' I'm not saying this is the case, but it's easy to see were the resentment and jealousy from some of his brothers might come from, unfounded or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Girlyman is unpopular cause he's a Smurf :D This is enough to make him unbearable ;) Frankly... The Lion is a bad person but the best strategian (btw if i started 40K now i would never do again DA, the retconn made by FW and BL made almost all legions and primarchs ugly to my eyes so i decided to ignore the BL HH books and stay with old fluff)... Girlyman is Just a bad person... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 That's not what I'm saying though. I'm saying having your work constantly 'inspected' gets agitating, especially if the one reviewing all your work is just a peer whose taken it upon themselves to act like your supervisor. Isn't that the canonical reason Alpharius didn't like Guilliman? Another in universe reason could be his brothers think Guilliman had it the easiest growing up. They could look at Guilliman's successes and think 'yeah, well, you were playing on easy mode. Try starting with nothing like we did.' I'm not saying this is the case, but it's easy to see were the resentment and jealousy from some of his brothers might come from, unfounded or not. Alpharius was not Guilliman’s peer though. He was the last Primarchs discovered. Guilliman has been conquering world since before Alpharius had even re-emerged from the warp storm thing that took them as babies. It’s not just Guilliman that would’ve dressed him down. Dorn calls him out in Praetorian of Dorn (and originally it was Dorn and Alpharius who didn’t get along) but logically Ferrus, another elder brother, wouldn’t have taken any of Alpharius crap. There was a distinct hierarchy in the Primarchs that each of them noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 But they were all still peers. They were all primarchs. We've seen all these demi god primarchs suffer from super sized pathos and ego. Alpharius and his system worked quite well. Why lose troops when you don't have to? Why fight fair when you don't have to? I always thought the reason Dorn/Bobby G had issues with Alpha Legion is frankly the new guy was doing something smarter than they thought of doing. It was petty jealousy. They could use the "We are the experienced veterans, young brother" card which they did but it doesn't negate the value of the Alpha Legion tactics and strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Alpharius is a man without honour He's One of the worst of the bunch From the BL books only three primarchs are truly superior beings All' the other ones are paranoide, egomaniacs, psycopats, selfish, arrogants, fanatics, cowards and so on... The only three ones you Can really like are Sanguinius Ferrus and Vulkan and two of them are Dead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Alpharius is a man without honour He's One of the worst of the bunch From the BL books only three primarchs are truly superior beings All' the other ones are paranoide, egomaniacs, psycopats, selfish, arrogants, fanatics, cowards and so on... The only three ones you Can really like are Sanguinius Ferrus and Vulkan and two of them are Dead... Uh...no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Alpharius is a man without honour He's One of the worst of the bunch From the BL books only three primarchs are truly superior beings All' the other ones are paranoide, egomaniacs, psycopats, selfish, arrogants, fanatics, cowards and so on... The only three ones you Can really like are Sanguinius Ferrus and Vulkan and two of them are Dead... Uh...no? They are Maybe just russ but he is a puppet following th orders of the emperors without even asking why Jonson is a selfish one only caring about his military victories Dorn is an egomaniac Kurze is a psycopat Lorgar a religious fanatic Angron is mentally unstable Mortarion is doomed inside Magnus is arrogant No primarch was a good guy... maybe just sanguinius and Vulkan and maybe Ferrus too the other ones i would never like to be the rulers of my army... they are all unstable maniacs This is how BL paints them in their novels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Alpharius is a man without honour He's One of the worst of the bunch From the BL books only three primarchs are truly superior beings All' the other ones are paranoide, egomaniacs, psycopats, selfish, arrogants, fanatics, cowards and so on... The only three ones you Can really like are Sanguinius Ferrus and Vulkan and two of them are Dead... Uh...no? They areMaybe just russ but he is a puppet following th orders of the emperors without even asking why Jonson is a selfish one only caring about his military victories Dorn is an egomaniac Kurze is a psycopat Lorgar a religious fanatic Angron is mentally unstable Mortarion is doomed inside Magnus is arrogant No primarch was a good guy... maybe just sanguinius and Vulkan and maybe Ferrus too the other ones i would never like to be the rulers of my army... they are all unstable maniacs This is how BL paints them in their novels Oi, Perturabo was a toy loving, tabletop playing, miniatures building nerd just like us and we love him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Jaghatai was cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Alpharius is a man without honour He's One of the worst of the bunch From the BL books only three primarchs are truly superior beings All' the other ones are paranoide, egomaniacs, psycopats, selfish, arrogants, fanatics, cowards and so on... The only three ones you Can really like are Sanguinius Ferrus and Vulkan and two of them are Dead... Uh...no? They are Maybe just russ but he is a puppet following th orders of the emperors without even asking why Jonson is a selfish one only caring about his military victories Dorn is an egomaniac Kurze is a psycopat Lorgar a religious fanatic Angron is mentally unstable Mortarion is doomed inside Magnus is arrogant No primarch was a good guy... maybe just sanguinius and Vulkan and maybe Ferrus too the other ones i would never like to be the rulers of my army... they are all unstable maniacs This is how BL paints them in their novels I disagree with pretty much all of this. There's reasons why even the "bad guys" are the way they are. Angron was not mentally unstable. He had a device implanted in his head against his will when he was a child that made him that way. Mortarion was brought up on a death world by a xenos that tricked him into thinking it was his father. He later led the human population to overthrow the xenos. He then went on to lead successful campaigns against other tyrants to free people. Kurze was not a psychopath. He was brought up by no one on a world constantly in shadow where crime was the norm. He suffered from visions that were true but were always the worst out of a possible future. How could any person be a moral person in a situation like that? Dorn and Magnus were arrogant? Yes. All primarchs are arrogant with outsized egos. BL has done a great job showing that super humans also have super human strengths but also super human faults. All primarchs are egotistical to a super human scale. Lorgar is a religious fanatic. True. So what? His early attempts at the Imperium faith were quite successful and he left the worlds he found in far better shape. It wasn't until he was rejected by the Emperor that he found other gods to worship. I will admit Lorgar is my least favorite primarch but there's definitely good qualities to him that are often forgotten. Russ is not a puppet. He took his role as the executioner seriously but after the Prospero massacre he changed his thinking. He's by far the most human relatable of all the primarchs. You can hate all the primarchs but two or three if you want but I think you are completely off base on them. When you have demi gods brought up on various worlds that were horrible places it is a little fantastic to expect all of them to be some kind of Arthurian Round table knights as a consequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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