Toy weapons

[slitth]

So Games Workshop want to get kids into the franchise with the new books.

 

But why not go the more action packed way and produce some Toy Weapons?

 

Like some Nerf gun bolter or come plastic chainsword with sounds.

They could even go the full marvel and make helmets (Iron man) and powerfists (hulk fists).

 

They would probably be able to sell a few to adults if they are well made.

 

So what do you think? Would kids buy this?

Would it be a good soft introduction to the franchise?

 

Have you already see some Warhammer 40K toy weapons?

 

 

 

[DBadger]

As they're a UK company those toy bolters would have to be unrealistic and bright colours might wreck the look.

[Azekai]

I don’t really buy the ‘bright colors’ explanation. I have seen frater on this site paint their marines’ bolters bright red and I imagine toys that were similarly colored would work fine.

[Brother Casman]

Somehow, I can't see GW making toy guns given their location in the UK.

[Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch]

I think having some toyish weapons would be excellent for cosplay purposes.

 

Aside from that, what are the issues in the UK? Enlighten an ignorant North American if you please?

[Azekai]

You can use toy guns to stage real robberies.

 

How you are supposed to rob a bank with a plastic bolter or chainsword, l have no idea.

[Techmarine Harkus]

The main legislation that affects toy guns in the UK is this:

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/contents

 

The Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006

 

It basically means that anything which resembles a firearm (the average passer by in the street would recognise it as a firearm), it cannot be sold to anyone unless they have a valid defense, such as a collector, museum, re-enactment etc. However, if it is brightly coloured, then this is not considered realistic, and therefore it is OK.

 

Oh, and brightly colored or not it is also illegal to sell an imitation firearm to a person under the age of 18. I'm a bit out of the loop to know where nerf guns etc fit into this, but if you wanted a bolter that could fire BBs etc, it could also be subject to laws governing air rifles, or even firearms depending on the specifications.

 

There are also limitations on other weapons, such as curved swords included in VCRA but these wouldn't really be relevant to toys because toys are usually made of plastic.

 

To be honest, I could see GW licensing some toys of their products, but they may consider that it is a conflict of interest with the toys they already produce (miniatures).

[hushrong]

I read "toy guns" and "U.K." and all I can think of is Bullet Tooth Tony. ;)

 

I remember very similar rules from living on military bases overseas. Still, when you live in Japan where there are tons of awesome BB guns you cannot help but buy a few.

 

 

For a toymaker I wonder if there is enough existing interest in younger children for WH40K toys. It would suck to make them and kids don't know much about them and have no interest. There are not enough comics out and no cartoon shows or awesome movies that make them think "I NEED THAT" and thus exposure is a smaller segment of the young masses who see people actually collect and play the game. Which they would probably want more. So instead they buy NERF (or GW plastic crack) and the 40k products wind up in the discount bin quick. Maybe it would just be a bunch of young adults and up buying the for collector purposes.

 

Damn...watching that "toys that made us" on Netflix did a number on me.

[MARK0SIAN]

Not only are the laws in the uk very strict around guns (even toy ones) but there’s also a lot of unwritten rules around toy weapons. The same way there’s an unwritten rule that car manufacturers never mention speed as a selling point for their cars, some stuff is just frowned upon.

 

These unwritten rules are essentially that toy guns are either old (cowboy style) or they’re laser guns from outer space. Nerf stuff is really brightly coloured and there’s a reason they don’t make them to resemble real world weapons. There is stuff that copies real stuff in bright colours but it’s cheap stuff, not manufactured by brands who have to deal with social media and the press.

 

I think 40K style guns would cross this unwritten line a bit too closely for comfort for GW and as for Chainswords, literally a weaponised chainsaw marketed to kids? Forget it!

[N1SB]

As it turns out, I have seen a toy chainsword, for Big Kids:

 

 

But I think you actually hit the nail on the head with:

 

They could even go the full marvel and make helmets (Iron man) and powerfists (hulk fists).

 

They would probably be able to sell a few to adults if they are well made.

 

We grew up with toy guns and toy swords, so it's so natural to us that we are on a forum called Bolter & Chainsword.  I haven't noticed as many toy guns and toy swords as I used to, suggesting they're not the obvious things to make any more.

 

Instead, I do see a lot more masks and costumes where there used to be toy guns.  Thus, I suspect the Space Marine helmet may be the most popular with widespread appeal as a toy or collectible, plus it might actually be the best thing for your secondary objective of promoting Warhammer 40,000 to a wider audience.  Power Fists are cool, too, but I think you really nailed it with the helmet.

 

What I noticed was, when I talk to friends who are not 40k fans, they know of it, but only Space Marines, Orks (they call them Orcs with dakka)...actually that's about it.  And they know a Space Marine from his "face", by which they mean the Mark VII helmet, compared to power armour of other franchises.  They know they all have guns, but they wouldn't recognise a Bolter or Shoota, and moreover, that's not what they focus on.  Not saying they're right or wrong, but it's just interesting to note how non-40k players think.

 

(To contrast, if I were to mention Star Wars, they would all talk about lightsaber 1st, then maybe Darth Vader's or Stormtroopers' helmets.  In that franchise, it's different.  It's pretty strange.)

 

I think a Space Marine helmet is a really good idea, because it'd be the most recognisable 40k toy collectible, thus having the widest reach and association for, y'know, brand building.  For a kid, it's a cool mask.  For a Space Marine player, it's like his character's helmet (because leaders tend to take their helmets off in 40k).  For a non-Marine player...it's a trophy.

 

Finally, a recent example.  An upcoming big franchise video game, Fallout 76, has a special edition that includes a power armour helmet, with a working flashlight and voice modulator.  It seems like people like that helmet more than the game (for reasons I won't go in here, just mentioning how popular power armour helmet collectibles seem to be).

 

GW has been trying to make headway into toy stores for a bit now.  Their Battle of Vedross (that's the re-release of Black Reach and other miniatures in new packaging) and Build & Paint series was for that purpose, not so much just for that sale, but to create exposure to 40k.  Maybe something like 40k TOYS is, quite appropriately, what is best suited for a TOY store.

 

+++++

 

What might hold Games Workshop back is that it doesn't seem to sub-contract work out and I legitimately think it still needs to focus on its core business of its own miniatures with its facilities.

 

GW really prefers to make stuff on its own, which IMHO is a good thing, as it means it puts more heart into it and afterwards it gains more expertise.  I noticed this even with the Japanese-exclusive Space Marine Heroes...they're still made in the UK and I think it's at their Nottingham facility, but just not sold there.  Making something quite different to what they're used to, from miniatures to a normal-sized toy, is probably a big shift for them, which leads to the next point...

 

Their recent growth has been great and is actually outpacing their plant, property, equipment expansion.  Maybe they're supremely efficient at their manufacturing and I think they kinda are, it's really their strength/core competency, but looking at both their financial statements and their Last Chances To Buys, it looks like they do need to focus on expanding their capacity for just their normal business 1st.

 

I think what was suggested is a good idea, but just saying this is what might give GW pause.  And it's a literal pause, because it's actually very intriguing, but GW has a lot on its plate already that it needs to take care of 1st.  Maybe they can look at things like this after Sisters of Battle?

[Skaorn]

You could probably just get a nerf gun cheaper than what GW would sell theirs as and just mod it into a Bolter or stormbolter. Trust me, plenty have done that mod before. Also, unless they license it to Hasbro, they will have to go for another distributor or do it themselves. The much cheaper option of finding someone else to make the guns is still going up against Nerf in a market that would probably similar to any model company from the 1990s going up against modern GW in the miniatures market. It kind of is Nerf or nothing.

 

It's kind of funny, but you can turn many Nerf guns into convincing enough looking firearms with enough work. If you're familiar enough with the models they put out you can see them in a bunch of movies. Usually Sci-fi, but they can make them look convincing to someone how doesn't know guns. I think the Terra Nova series was one of the better known TV shows with them, off the top of my head. The old Longshot has had a rather prolific acting career.

[Quixus]

Like some Nerf gun bolter or come plastic chainsword with sounds.

There already is a Nerf Heavy Bolter. Slap a proper paint job and a couple of purity seals/eight pointed stars on it and you are set.

[Indefragable]

I read "toy guns" and "U.K." and all I can think of is Bullet Tooth Tony.

 

 

YES

 

 

"...and since mine says 'The Emperor's Holy Bolter .77'...that should precipitate your presence into shrinking."

[DuskRaider]

Make them in the US. Problem solved.

[USNCenturion]

As a model company, I doubt GW would want to stretch their resources into toy making. They don’t even really engage in clothing/apparel, video games, or novels for their line; these are all subcontracted out to other parties. I think someone like a Nerf or another toy/prop manufacturer would need to enter a deal with GW to produce these things for them.

 

Consider they need to create the department, then research its cost/profit potential, establish a marketing campaign, create the molds and infrastructure, find a way to sell and ship it, enter into deals with retail stores, test the items for safety and run them through a review process. All of this based off a proposed introductory item for people who may or may not even know what these weird looking things are.

 

Not saying it’s a bad idea (I’d buy the things), just that it doesn’t seem realistic from a business standpoint. Unless, as I said, they sublet it to another company.

[Grotsmasha]

I always thought a collaboration with Hasbro or MB Games would be a good idea. Want an Inquisition Cluedo? I do. How about a Hungry, Hungry Carnifex? Yes please. Perhaps an Astartes Guess Who, or BFG Battleships? Take my money, right?

[The Nephilim]

Do millennial parents even allow their children to play with toy guns?

[Skaorn]

Do millennial parents even allow their children to play with toy guns?

Probably once they're done playing with them themselves. They're fun.

[Grotsmasha]

Do millennial parents even allow their children to play with toy guns?

 

Yes

[Volt]

There's no way somebody could mistake a bolter for a "real gun" unless they're a hopeless idiot wholly ignorant of all firearms knowledge or looking for an excuse to crack down on something. In what universe does this.

 

 

Look like this?

 

 

Maybe if you made a boltgun as small as a handgun it might be mistaken, but unless the authorities are purposefully looking for something to have a fit over, a bolter is so far removed from any gun in existence it's almost not funny. 

[Techmarine Harkus]

There's no way somebody could mistake a bolter for a "real gun" unless they're a hopeless idiot wholly ignorant of all firearms knowledge or looking for an excuse to crack down on something. In what universe does this.

 

*

 

Look like this?

 

*

 

Maybe if you made a boltgun as small as a handgun it might be mistaken, but unless the authorities are purposefully looking for something to have a fit over, a bolter is so far removed from any gun in existence it's almost not funny. 

 

In the UK though, looking like a real gun isn't the only problem. VCRA cites unrealistic size as an example of something that is not considered realistic under the Act, but it is still an imitation firearm, so would be illegal to sell to someone under the age of 18. That doesn't stop parents buying them for their children on the face of it, but it would certainly make it a less appealing business prospect to get involved with if your target audience isn't even allowed to buy your products themselves.

 

I would point out that it's not illegal to own a realistic imitation firearm, or one considered unrealistic. What is limited is buying/selling and manufacturing. Clearly the restrictions on realistic imitation firearms is designed to help prevent criminals from using fake guns to assist them in committing crime, and reduce the chances of police being called out to a false alarm where people are using/playing with things which a bystander would believe to be real. I'm sure we've all read new stories about people being visited by armed response for waving toy guns around in public, or to the extreme, being shot for appearing to pose a threat.

 

I think the restriction on imitation firearms for under 18s is mainly to control their access to things which they could unknowingly use to cause an offense, such as paint a bright orange plastic AK47 black, then go on to have the police called as above. There is also the moral aspect; do we believe children should be able to go and buy toy guns for themselves? Apparently in the UK the stance is that that decision should be made by the parents.

 

Personally, I think that with the amount of war in media (news, films, tv, games etc) that it's almost impossible for parents to make that decision and have any real impact anyway. If you are going to manufacture toy guns then they should be fantastical in nature so that kids could be playing space marines and orks rather than something more sinister like police and terrorists (or cowboys and Indians).

 

Sadly though, with GW being a UK company, and one which would probably like to stay on the right side of a much of the parent demographic as possible, I think toy weapons are unlikely to happen. That said, GW have been pretty liberal with their IP in the computer games industry of late (and a few places elsewhere) and I think it would be a valid business opportunity for them to sell their license to Hasbro or whatever. They already know what they are doing and understand that market. GW would profit from their license without having to deal with as much of the risk.

[MARK0SIAN]

There's no way somebody could mistake a bolter for a "real gun" unless they're a hopeless idiot wholly ignorant of all firearms knowledge or looking for an excuse to crack down on something.

Whilst this may be true, you say it as if people with no firearms knowledge are a tiny fraction of the population whereas actually, particularly in the UK, there are millions of people, particularly the parenting demographic, who don’t have any knowledge of guns. Apologies if you are from the UK and I’m telling you something you already know, but in the UK guns are very rare. It is not at all infeasible for someone to go their entire lives and never see a gun in real life, particularly if they’ve no interest in such things.

 

That parenting demographic is a very strong one and no company wants to risk getting on the wrong side of them.

 

The link below might help some people trying to understand the different atmosphere around guns in the UK to say, America or even other European countries.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44285455

 

This is a famous footballer in England, this article is less than a month old and look at how much stick he got, not just from parents but from national newspapers for just having a tattoo of a gun! GW doesn’t want any of this kind of negative coverage, especially at a time when they’re trying get more youngsters into the hobby.

[Closet Skeleton]

America's approach to toy guns seems more similar than different to me.

 

The weird thing is that the US censors guns in cartoons but the UK doesn't, but I guess it makes sense in practice.

[Hasuro]

 

Like some Nerf gun bolter or come plastic chainsword with sounds.

There already is a Nerf Heavy Bolter. Slap a proper paint job and a couple of purity seals/eight pointed stars on it and you are set.

 

Nah, but Nerf Mega Mastodon is one

[Aramis K]

Do millennial parents even allow their children to play with toy guns?

I'd say not so much, but I'm in liberal London.

As a kid I had imitation pistols with orange tips which I'd never allow my kids. I just don't think there's much market for toy guns here aside from some Nerf.

Video games let kids play soldier and parents seem much happier with CoD than a plastic revolver.