War of Secrets by Phil Kelly- now available

[Cpt_Reaper]

They're not heretics. They don't go against the Emperor. They're merely selfish jackasses who put their own shameful past before what they perceive as relatively minor battles. They don't like to cooperate, but they won't openly betray the Imperium, even if they may leave it hanging if more pressing concerns arise. But it's not like that's something exclusive to them...

 

But those are the portrayals that cause those unending "jokes". The Dark Angels should never be considered jackasses. They may have flaws but are deserving of respect like any other Chapter.

 

I'm getting a little sick of my favourite Chapter being treated so poorly by writers.

[Apothecary Vaddon]

lmao seems like phil kelly strikes again

[Brother Dimetrius]

Finished it. What the hell was that.

 

The whole novel seems to be building up to the naive, Mars-aligned (whut?) idealistic Primaris coming into conflict with the Dark Angels, in a way that might potentially either spell the downfall of the Chapter or the elimination of the Primaris. Interesting.

 

Instead, the main Primaris characters use some plot device to subvert their mind-wiping, and... nothing. They go into combat, massacre civilians they had helped before, and the DA that were ready to terminate them instead induct them in a new order.

 

Each element individually would be interesting. But to me, it transitioned from two potential views of the new 40k (a new more idealistic tone vs. the old uber-cynical Grim Dark) without any clear motivation from any of the characters. Is the Primaris being more idealistic in character? Yes. Is the Primaris being indoctrinated xenophobes that will execute those who allign with the alien in character? Yes. But the protagonist went from one to the other without any apparent reason to do so, essentially short-circuiting the entire build up of the novel.

 

A pity really, as some of the world building (the mining world, the Angels of Absolution Homeworld, the Tzeentchian Fallen) was well done. The story didn't make any sense. Kelly is clearly a background writer, not a novelist.

 

Oh, I also have no clue what the hell was going on with those Tau, but I can blame that on my lack of knowledge of their background.

 
 

[rendingon1+]

Personaly I don't believe it's ever possible to change meme mentality of some people and I don't really care anymore. 1d4 does not help and since it's the main source of information for illiterate (ie. why reading books when you can just read 1d4 and be cool) players and 40k...enthusiasts. BL has decided that DA ain't nothing but Hunt and it wouldn't be so bad if stories we're given weren't :cuss. I don't like that certain authors have monopoly for x faction: Kyme's Salamanders, Swallow's old BA (fortunately no longer it seems) and Thorpe's DA. Some like Night Lords or TS are lucky for having a good author but there's nothing worse than liking x and having a bad x writer who ruins your favorite aspect of the universe book by book. DA are my fovorite but there's no DA book I could return to. That's the pain.

[Commander Dawnstar]

Each element individually would be interesting. But to me, it transitioned from two potential views of the new 40k (a new more idealistic tone vs. the old uber-cynical Grim Dark) without any clear motivation from any of the characters. Is the Primaris being more idealistic in character? Yes. Is the Primaris being indoctrinated xenophobes that will execute those who allign with the alien in character? Yes. But the protagonist went from one to the other without any apparent reason to do so, essentially short-circuiting the entire build up of the novel.

 

Farren didn't make so severe a transition. His idealism in the early chapters puts him in a position where he's willing to put his neck out to save Deel (and those she can get off Saltire Vex) because he honestly believes that at they turned out of necessity and would be happy enough to serve the Imperium if their problems were resolved and order restored. He believes that through her he can "save a planet full of humans, even misguided ones, and bring them back into the Emperor’s light" and that she'll potentially serve as a pro-Imperium propaganda tool to help bring those turned Gue'vesa back into the fold. In his mind the people of Saltire Vex are basically going to sort out the necessary paperwork to ride out the deep freeze and then go back to working at the pump once the trouble blows over.

 

Come the end of the novel Farren comes face to face with a woman who is using the Imperium's fuel to buy transport from aliens, plans to forsake the Imperium and start a new life away from the Emperor's light, is striving to save those infected with the psi-plague from Imperial quarantine, and who has stooped to firing on the Emperor's servants, whether intending to cause harm or not. While Deel may believe she's doing the right thing, from Farren's perspective he wiped the slate clean and gave her a chance to redeem herself only to see her choose to abandon the Imperium for salvation with aliens once more despite it (in his mind) not being in any way necessary this time. He gave her the opportunity to return to the path of righteousness and she put her own life before the Imperium once again and meant to take the survivors of Saltire Vex with her.

 

That said, I have absolutely no idea why this leads to the Inner Circle suddenly trusting them. That definitely felt like it came out of nowhere.

[kamedake88]

Holy crap this book... I don't even know where to start. I finished it several minutes ago and after setting my iPad down on my night stand, I immediately picked it back up and deleted it. I am now made of salt. Top to bottom, salt! I won't waste time echoing observations made by others except to say the most egregious thing about the novel was the five or so pages of "I need to stretch word count". I mean really, literally copy and pasting descriptive passages from earlier in the story to the end to stretch word count, what is this 8th grade English...? I need a drink.

[Sothalor]

Oh boy, the reactions to this one are making it seem more and more like a skip for me.

 

Which honestly, seems a shame because an exploration of how Primaris newcomers struggle to integrate into Chapters with up to ten millennia of history really ought to be one of the draws of 8th Ed. stuff.

 

But having Phil Kelly write it? I mean, I know Eldar players go into orgasmic frenzies whenever he does one of their codices, but have any of his Black Library works been well received?

[Triszin]

Oh boy, the reactions to this one are making it seem more and more like a skip for me.

 

Which honestly, seems a shame because an exploration of how Primaris newcomers struggle to integrate into Chapters with up to ten millennia of history really ought to be one of the draws of 8th Ed. stuff.

 

But having Phil Kelly write it? I mean, I know Eldar players go into orgasmic frenzies whenever he does one of their codices, but have any of his Black Library works been well received?

as far as I am aware. no.

[nagashnee]

Oh boy, the reactions to this one are making it seem more and more like a skip for me.

 

Which honestly, seems a shame because an exploration of how Primaris newcomers struggle to integrate into Chapters with up to ten millennia of history really ought to be one of the draws of 8th Ed. stuff.

 

But having Phil Kelly write it? I mean, I know Eldar players go into orgasmic frenzies whenever he does one of their codices, but have any of his Black Library works been well received?

Honestly there is 0 integration in this book, do NOT buy this book to see how Primaries fit in and get to grips with existing chapters of astartes. 

[rendingon1+]

Yup. From time to time you can also find such ridiculous statements as:

"we primaris marines heal fast"

Or:

"He was Primaris Space Marine, he will not fail (or something similar)

[Sete]

Cringe.

[Brother Dimetrius]

 

Each element individually would be interesting. But to me, it transitioned from two potential views of the new 40k (a new more idealistic tone vs. the old uber-cynical Grim Dark) without any clear motivation from any of the characters. Is the Primaris being more idealistic in character? Yes. Is the Primaris being indoctrinated xenophobes that will execute those who allign with the alien in character? Yes. But the protagonist went from one to the other without any apparent reason to do so, essentially short-circuiting the entire build up of the novel.

 

Farren didn't make so severe a transition. His idealism in the early chapters puts him in a position where he's willing to put his neck out to save Deel (and those she can get off Saltire Vex) because he honestly believes that at they turned out of necessity and would be happy enough to serve the Imperium if their problems were resolved and order restored. He believes that through her he can "save a planet full of humans, even misguided ones, and bring them back into the Emperor’s light" and that she'll potentially serve as a pro-Imperium propaganda tool to help bring those turned Gue'vesa back into the fold. In his mind the people of Saltire Vex are basically going to sort out the necessary paperwork to ride out the deep freeze and then go back to working at the pump once the trouble blows over.

 

Come the end of the novel Farren comes face to face with a woman who is using the Imperium's fuel to buy transport from aliens, plans to forsake the Imperium and start a new life away from the Emperor's light, is striving to save those infected with the psi-plague from Imperial quarantine, and who has stooped to firing on the Emperor's servants, whether intending to cause harm or not. While Deel may believe she's doing the right thing, from Farren's perspective he wiped the slate clean and gave her a chance to redeem herself only to see her choose to abandon the Imperium for salvation with aliens once more despite it (in his mind) not being in any way necessary this time. He gave her the opportunity to return to the path of righteousness and she put her own life before the Imperium once again and meant to take the survivors of Saltire Vex with her.

 

That said, I have absolutely no idea why this leads to the Inner Circle suddenly trusting them. That definitely felt like it came out of nowhere.

 

 

Interesting perspective, thanks. I sort of see it but it didn't really feel that way to me reading it.

[Commander Dawnstar]

That's fair. It's possible I'm being overly generous.

[Demigod]

Based on the comments here and on reddit i considered this book would be hot garbage from start and finish. But I found the plots and their progression interesting , the only problem that I have is how they were finished:

 

 

1. Kais fighting and killing 20 + marines is not a problem when Kais is described as the ultimate Tau warrior ( also the purple eye should indicate Chaos corruption )  , the problem is that in the end Kais should have died and the Ethereals should have just tried to copy his creation process. Kais surviving an orbital strike with a damaged warsuit is Tau :cussing.  Also I found it kind of stupid that the Tau kept losing battle after battle against the SM but the suits were described as superior in every scene.

 

2. The primaris plot line ended with a dud. Pietr died in a very stupid way ,since when can an aphotecarion just decide that the Primaris should be put down and immediately start killing them when officers on the ground were waiting for approval from the chaplain. 

 

Many people wrote that the DA are portrayed as plain evil  but I never once read that the Primaris hold Mars in the same regard as Terra , Cawl as their creator and keep mentioning how they have served under RG. The DA are maybe dicks but in this case the DA even showed restraint. 

 

In the end I don't see the end of the book as just the primaris being accepted , there is no way that they will go over Pietr being put down like a dog with a smile. Zaeroph probably did not order them being killed because he knows that they can't kill all of the primaris marines without the Imperium taking notice. 

 

 

3. The Angels of Absolution plot line on the other hand was finished quite nicely. I expect that this plot line together with the primarines one will all converge for some kind of summer campaign involving Luther and the Lion. An enormous campaign including the Unforgiven,Fallen,Primaris,Tau,Knights and maybe a chaos primarch and a first founding space marine chapter to define Imperium Nihilus.

[Orwell84]

Sounds like a truly cringe-worthy read to avoid. Suspension of disbelief only goes so far and somebody surviving direct hits from orbital strikes snaps that rubber band completely.

 

 

3. The Angels of Absolution plot line on the other hand was finished quite nicely. I expect that this plot line together with the primarines one will all converge for some kind of summer campaign involving Luther and the Lion. An enormous campaign including the Unforgiven,Fallen,Primaris,Tau,Knights and maybe a chaos primarch and a first founding space marine chapter to define Imperium Nihilus.

 

Sounds interesting, how are the Angels of Absolution involved? Always wanted to see more of the Unforgiven since DA, White Scars and Iron Hands successor chapters are rarely given the spotlight.

 

 

They're not heretics. They don't go against the Emperor. They're merely selfish jackasses who put their own shameful past before what they perceive as relatively minor battles. They don't like to cooperate, but they won't openly betray the Imperium, even if they may leave it hanging if more pressing concerns arise. But it's not like that's something exclusive to them...

 

But those are the portrayals that cause those unending "jokes". The Dark Angels should never be considered jackasses. They may have flaws but are deserving of respect like any other Chapter.

 

I'm getting a little sick of my favourite Chapter being treated so poorly by writers.

 

 

True that. I actually like Gav Thorpe's DA works more than most here it seems, and in those I recall them being portrayed as more considerate of Imperial civilians and soldiers than many other Chapters. On a scale of 'Marines Malevolent sociopathy' to 'Salamander righteousness' the DA actually come closer to the latter - they sacrifice people when needed, but do seriously consider it their duty to protect the Imperium and its subjects. Gives the whole paranoid obsession with the Fallen and perceived shame an air of self-inflicted tragedy; one could argue that, Fallen-related slip-ups aside, they've long redeemed themselves in 10,000 years of loyal service.

[Lord_Caerolion]

There definitely needs to be more written about the Dark Angels not involving the Fallen. Yeah, it's a central theme of the Chapter, but it's not the focal point of every battle they ever fight. The way some fluff reads you can't go to any planet in the Imperium without bumping into 3 Fallen on your way, and there's a Fallen leading a cult militia on the planet when you get there.

[Orwell84]

There definitely needs to be more written about the Dark Angels not involving the Fallen. Yeah, it's a central theme of the Chapter, but it's not the focal point of every battle they ever fight. The way some fluff reads you can't go to any planet in the Imperium without bumping into 3 Fallen on your way, and there's a Fallen leading a cult militia on the planet when you get there.

 

+1. Like how most battles involving Chaos marines seem to have them falling in droves to younger loyalists, despite being billed as veterans of the 10,000 year war or such. By this logic, the pool of Heresy survivors (let alone Great Crusade veterans) should have shrunk to Abaddon, the Big Four champions, Fabulous Bile, and one or two lonely drunkards at the local Slaneeshi establishment.

 

Would be amusing if in one story the Dark Angels go haring after a rumored Fallen marine, only to discover too late that it was a lie while the Alpha Legion are now free to secure their objective

[Hantheman]

My thing is that by the end of the Heresy they will have known that the same thing happened within the other legions so it doesn't make any sense anymore that they have to hide their "shame". Just makes them look like jerks doing pointless dickery when they abandon allies because they might have found one of the traitors.

 

The whole shame of their past thing made more sense when they were the only Legion to have part of their marines turn against the Empire.

 

Yeah you can tell the problem is that the whole half traitor thing was a sentence long when Space Marines just started, now the lore has enhanced and everyone went a little traitor and they didn't know how to handle that.

[bluntblade]

Still, the Lion's home world turning against him and having been allowed to sit out the Heresy strikes me as a political danger. It feeds into the sort of narrative Curze warned him about on Tsagulsua.

[Kasper_Hawser]

hi all. I just finished the book and I hope you don't mind I go against main consensus and say the book is a good one.

 

Well, good maybe too much, I actually give it a B-. My main complaint is the shortness of the novel, and as most people point out, the somewhat rushed ending.

 

I'm not sure what Phil Kelly wrote to make most of you be so negative, but if nothing else, the bolter porn of the book was excellent, and almost every battle I felt made sense from a tabletop point of view, which is a plus in my opinion. He clearly knew the difference between a bolt rifle and a storm bolter.

 

The Tau revelation was strange coming from a DA novel but not entirely unwelcome or badly written so not complaining about that.

 

As for the whole Primaris as a whole, while it is rather abruptly resolved, I think it is not too badly resolve as the Interrogator Chaplain is going as far as creating a new circle (pending Azrael's approval). For my part, the Lieutenant finally executing the woman he tried to save earlier, was the defining moment of the Chaplain's decision not to kill them there and then.

 

 

I got a feeling I better duck and cover before everyone throws their rubbish at me for going against consensus. Oh what the heck, I'm a Space wolf anyway, like I care what the dresswearers say.

[Kelborn]

Haven't read it but I enjoyed his story about Farsight and the Arkunasha war.

 

His Farsight novel is on my to so list, as well.

 

Sometimes one has to read a story by himself in order to judge, eh? :)

[Shadowseer]

Not sure why there is so much negativity in this thread.

 

The book has it's weaknesses, but I'd say it shows nicely how Primaris are treated, expands on Tau, gives details on Angels of Absolution and overall makes the setting deeper.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Not sure why there is so much negativity in this thread.

 

The book has it's weaknesses, but I'd say it shows nicely how Primaris are treated, expands on Tau, gives details on Angels of Absolution and overall makes the setting deeper.

 

Well said. Still, I can understand if the writing style doesn't suit you, you can be very negative towards a particular author. For me, Gav Thorpe's writing inspires the same level of negativity in this thread, especially when he wrote Ashes of Prospero which has most of the Space Wolves in B&C section jumping up and down over its inconsistencies and generally perceived poor understanding of Wolves.

 

then again, Gav Thorpe also has his moments of awesome which I like or think makes sense.

 

 

Basically punching his chaplain's head off for trying to forbid psychic power use and then immediately regretting it.

 

[DarkChaplain]

Well, Kelly has a pretty battlereport style, with a history of bad Tau depictions, making Shadowsun and Aun'Va feel really stupid and contrived, and then there's awkward action setpieces that make no sense when you think about them. His contribution to the Damocles anthology for Space Marine Battles almost made me bin the book, and I gave up on Blades of Damocles after a while, and discussions about it confirm that I did the right thing there because it'd have just infuriated me further.

[rendingon1+]

If you find dialogues like this fine than I think there's not much to discuss.

‘Engagement range in eight minutes,’ came the clipped, disapproving tones of their superior, Zaeroph. The Chaplain was voxing through to the Harrower’s

skull-like relay from the command echelon’s Thunderhawk, Sacred Mace. ‘Commend your souls to the Emperor and the Lion. Strike from a place bereft of doubt.’

‘Lieutenant,’ hissed Sergeant Moricani. ‘How do we commend our souls? Does

it involve kneeling? Because I’m not sure I wish to be nose to nose with any of you armoured ogryns.’

 

Basically every chapter of this book has facepalming moments. Primaris rescuing DA prisoner (no guards and this is DA we're talking about) smugling her to a strike cruiser (no one will notice, right), letting her escape on arvus (because DA do not monitor come and go on their ship of course) etc. And these are some of the milder crimes against reason.