lash144 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Hey folks, I am working on an army list for an upcoming local tournament series and I decided to ally some Blood Angels to my AdMech to fix some of our weaknesses. Mainly I´m looking for good deepstriking assault. Some psychic presence would be nice to have, but is not a must. So I will be taking 3x5 Scouts for sure and a Captain with Wings, Thunderhammer and SS. But what should the other HQ be? Are there any stand out units in the BA codex which would be worth taking in an allied detachment? I could spend up to 1000 points for the Batallion btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 If your only last missing bit is a second HQ then just go with Mephiston and keep casting Wings on him. ^^ Keep in mind that BA assault units are very CP hungry. You could basically dump your whole CP pool into the Captain to take out some big&scary and the other units would still like to get some attention as well. If you think you're going to need your CP for your AdMech then a BA ally might not be the best choice. Alternatively you could take a Vanguard Detachment with Captain, DC, Lemartes and something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lash144 Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 It has not to be a single HQ, it can be also a unit of DC for example. I´m not quite sure which would be my best choices. Yeah I´m aware of the CP hunger, thats why I am planning on running 2 batallions for a total of 13CP and take Wings + Veritas Vitae. There is also a Trait for AdMech which gives you a 6+/6+ CP gain. Also my AdMech don´t need that many CP :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Crimson Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 A lot of guard players (that allies BA) just get a supreme command for Mephiston and two captains. That’s around 400 points and it really brings a good punch. Of course those 3 amigos can find themselves at home with scouts too. If you want to bring DC, Lemartes replaces one of the captains and you get a 15 men DC unit with him. This way they get reroll misses and more importantly to charge. Mephiston can cast rage on the unit for up to 75 attacks on the charge + 30 bolter shots. 3 scouts, lemartes, max size DC, captain hammertime and Mephiston all fit under 900 points even with a couple of upgrades for DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diagramdude Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 A 15 man DC unit will delete anything it touches, no questions asked, but it will be targeted down and destroyed the very next turn. T4 3+ with no invulns is about as paper thin as it gets in 8th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombs Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 You have several options imo: 1) Mephiston + double captain with hammer - this gives you a LOT of threatening melee, but no screens/troops. Also hordes are problematic for our heroes 2) Mephiston, Captain + 15 scouts. - a bit les melee, but good screening units that can infiltrate and take objectives. This is the most balanced imo 3) Mephiston, Captain, Lemartes, 10 Death Company. + 1 cp, for an absolute melee machine. DC will deepstrike and charge 3D6 rerollable every unit. Lemartes is must with them. They can litterally destroy anything, but after they did their job, probably gonna get shot out of the table. 4) same as n3, but add 15 scouts. Depends if you need them, I don't know admech very well, but id you already have cheap troops/screens, then scouts are not needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tychobi Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Capt Smashypants, Mephiston, 3x5scouts and 2×5death co jump with bolter and chainsword would be my recommendation. Fits the bill and won't break the bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lash144 Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 Thanks for you feedback guys, I think I will just have to experiment a little bit do find the best option. Another question: Is there any reason to take a regular Librarian instead of Mephiston? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Another question: Is there any reason to take a regular Librarian instead of Mephiston? To be honest, not really. You could give a libby a Jump Pack so he does not have to cast Wings on himself but the Relic JP is better on Captain Smash. Mephy hits much harder than a regular Libby, has a 2+ save and 5+ FNP and can take an extra power. Mephy costs more than a Jump Libby but I would say he is definitely worth it for the added punch he brings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Crimson Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Thanks for you feedback guys, I think I will just have to experiment a little bit do find the best option. Another question: Is there any reason to take a regular Librarian instead of Mephiston? Sometimes you want two librarian... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 I like jump pack Librarians, personally. They don’t rely on the WoS psychic power the way Meph or a Libby Dread does. Do they punch as hard? Of course not, but it’s never a 1:1 swap out; you adjust your list and tactics accordingly. The only real justification for more than one Psyker is if you’re doing 1 beatstick Psyker and 1 buffer. The beatstick (typically Mephiston) goes Quickening and Wings of Sang while the buffer goes Rage and Shield of Sang. Efficiency in a list is debatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 My personal vote would be something along the following lines. Blood Angel Battalion HQ 129 Captain Smash 129 Lemartes 145 Mephiston Troops 55 5 x Scouts 55 5 x Scouts 55 5 x Scouts Elites 242 10 Death Company with Bolters and Jump Packs. 3 Thunder Hammers Total 810 Points That gives you a healthy 5CPs for stratagems as well as good Deep striking CC units to apply those strats to. Captain Smash is epic and can conceivably solo a Knight if you are willing to spend the CPs on Honour of the Chapter or Only in Death for a second round of attacks. Mephiston is only slightly less devastating but provides some handy psychic defense and makes a great second-line character. Lemartes and 10 DC are awesome and have never let me down. Bring them down Turn 2 and use DoA to delete anything from a horde to an MBT. I have deliberately left the Scouts bare-bones but don't be afraid to beef them up if you want. I have never been impressed withy Sniper scouts but bolter, shotgun and CC variants are all viable. I lean towards CC because of Red Thirst and I assume you will use Admech for longer-range objective campers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Also don't forget that Scouts have access to Heavy Bolter and Missile Launcher which both have mortal wound Stratagems for cheap in the Codex (not to mention that Heavy Bolter are generally good anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lash144 Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 My personal vote would be something along the following lines. Blood Angel Battalion HQ 129 Captain Smash 129 Lemartes 145 Mephiston Troops 55 5 x Scouts 55 5 x Scouts 55 5 x Scouts Elites 242 10 Death Company with Bolters and Jump Packs. 3 Thunder Hammers Total 810 Points Thanks for the suggestion, this looks really fun to use and would help to mitigate many weaknesses of my AdMech. The only worry I have would be CP. What's a reasonable amount which I should plan to use on this Batallion? I know that you could use an nearly infinite amount, but I'm looking for an realistic estimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 My personal vote would be something along the following lines. Blood Angel Battalion HQ 129 Captain Smash 129 Lemartes 145 Mephiston Troops 55 5 x Scouts 55 5 x Scouts 55 5 x Scouts Elites 242 10 Death Company with Bolters and Jump Packs. 3 Thunder Hammers Total 810 Points Thanks for the suggestion, this looks really fun to use and would help to mitigate many weaknesses of my AdMech. The only worry I have would be CP. What's a reasonable amount which I should plan to use on this Batallion? I know that you could use an nearly infinite amount, but I'm looking for an realistic estimate. 1CP for Deathvisions on the Captain, another CP for the Jump Pack relic if he isn't your Warlord, 1CP for Red Rampage (+1d3 attacks), 2CP for Descent of Angels (the 3d6 charge). So 1/2 fix before the battle begins, 2 when you want to get a Jump Pack unit that just dropped to get into melee, 1 whenever the Captain fights something he can't kill properly with his base+1 attacks alone. I'd always calculate for two Red Rampage uses so 2CP. That makes a total of 5/6 CP. Situational Stratagems: Upon Wings of Fire (1CP) + Descent of Angels (2CP) = 3CP. Lets you re-position any JP unit and catch a unit offguard the same way as if you were just dropping them from reserves. More Red Rampage (1CP). Self explaining. Honour the Chapter (3CP). Letting DC/Mephiston/Captain fight twice. Only in Death does Duty end (2CP). Letting Mephiston/Captain fight again after they died. If you gave your Scouts Heavy Bolter just add another CP for each Shooting Phase for a 36" smite that doesn't have to target the nearest enemy unit. ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diagramdude Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Im not sure spending 129 on Lemartes to buff 242 of DC is worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Im not sure spending 129 on Lemartes to buff 242 of DC is worth it. It's so they have a better chance to get into melee in the first place. If you don't take Lemartes the only other option is to spend CP on the re-roll Stratagem which is only better than Lemartes re-roll half the time or to spend CP on the 3d6 charge Stratagem which you normally want for your Captain instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STTAB Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 If you are willing to lose Monitor Malevolus for the CP regen warlord trait then you can go for a librarian with JP/Libby Dread/Mephiston warlord, sanguinary guard and sanguinary ancient with relic banner (5+++ aura) and still take the Veritas vitae relic for CP regen. If you start this on the board then your opponent will have to throw some heavy weapons to shift SG with 2+/5+++, which is heavy weapons not hitting your admech gunline. If they are not adequately targeted, they can march up in unison to stay protected or Libby can use wings and you can do UWoF/DoA. JP Libby is better for reliable mobility to march the bubble up. Dread/Mephiston for more damage output but with the possibility of being left behind and you lose your rerolls. Great since your captain will probably be going off on his own suicide mission and using UWoF/DoA turn 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Im not sure spending 129 on Lemartes to buff 242 of DC is worth it. Trust me, it really is! Add to that, Lemartes is a fairly hefty damage dealer in his own right with 6 S6, AP-2 D3 attacks that benefit from his own reroll aura as well as getting rerolls on his own charges meaning that he has a 48% chance of making it into melee alongside the DC, even if they both dropped in from Reserve on that turn and you used DoA on the DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lash144 Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 I think I made up my mind guys: I´ll take Captain Smash + Lemmy + 3x5 Scouts + DC + A third HQ for Veritas Vitae. On Sunday I have to test games against Tau where I can test this setup and report back afterwards. So some follow up questions: 1) Scouts: What loadout do you prefer? Do run them CQC with combat knives or range with Bolters and maybe a HB? 2) DC unit size: Whats the sweet spot in your opinion? Somewhere between 10-15? 3) I´m looking for a carrier for the Veritas relic, since Cpt. Smash has Wings and Lemmy can´t take it. Any suggestions? And really thanks for your help by the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Crimson Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Scout loadout is what you think will complement your list, they all have very similar punch and they function more as area control anyway. I like big DC squads as they benefit a lot from stratagems. As for HQ for Veritas a lieutenant or librarian / librarian dreadnought maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucumon Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Cpt Smash x3 Scouts x3 I'm testing this with 3 knights this weekend... It should be sufficiently stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 I think I made up my mind guys: I´ll take Captain Smash + Lemmy + 3x5 Scouts + DC + A third HQ for Veritas Vitae. On Sunday I have to test games against Tau where I can test this setup and report back afterwards. So some follow up questions: 1) Scouts: What loadout do you prefer? Do run them CQC with combat knives or range with Bolters and maybe a HB? 2) DC unit size: Whats the sweet spot in your opinion? Somewhere between 10-15? 3) I´m looking for a carrier for the Veritas relic, since Cpt. Smash has Wings and Lemmy can´t take it. Any suggestions? 1) CCW works well with Red Thirst and can help put pressure on melee-poor opponents on T1 now that alpha-strikes from Reserve have to wait until T2. Bolters with either HB or ML make good objective campers and have access to the Hellfire and Flakk stratagems respectively for sneaking through mortal wounds. Snipers are the only version that do not impress me. 2) 10 seems about right for me. Less and they lack sufficient punch, particularly if they take a few casualties. More and losses to Morale become a real problem (I still think DC should be Fearless). 3) A Librarian with Jump Pack and Unleash Rage to give the DC even more attacks might make a good VV caddy. Shield of Sanguinius can help make them a bit more durable too as well as providing you with some psychic defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lash144 Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 So regarding the third HQ for Veritas Vitae I have an idea: The problem with the Jump Pack Lib is that he is most likely not on the board before turn 2 and I will spend many CP during first turn and even before the battle for my AdMech infiltration. Maybe I could add a barebones Captain or Lieutenant and form a small fire base somewhere. Which units would you recommend for it? Would also be good if those units were Standard, so I can fill out the Batallion while building the firebase. (but a squad of devastors or so is also ok I guess) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Crimson Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Don’t forget that the JP Libby can re-deep strike for 1cp via upon wings of fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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