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Auspex Scan + Scions of Guilliman?


Diagramdude

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If I pop Auspex Scan to shoot at some deep strikers, can I then immediately use Scions of Guilliman to gain some rerolls? How literal is "as if it were the shooting phase" meant to be?

 

Auspex Scan: "Use this Stratagem immediately after your opponent sets up a unit that is arriving on the battlefield as reinforcements within 12" of one of your ADEPTUS ASTARTES Infantry units.Your unit can immediately shoot at that enemy unit as if it were the Shooting phase, but you must subtract 1 from all the resulting hit rolls.

 

Scions of Guilliman: "Use this Stratagem when an ULTRAMARINES INFANTRY or ULTRAMARINES BIKERunit is selected to attack in a Shooting or Fight phase..."

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I don't think they would work together. Scions can only be used in the shooting phase. While Auspex Scan says to shoot as if it was the shooting phase, it doesn't temporarily make it the shooting phase. Seems pretty clear cut that it can't be used. 

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As if it were the shooting phase is pretty self explanatory.

 

It's as if it were the shooting phase - meaning strategems that work in the shooting phase would apply.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Me three!

 

Always followed the rule of acting as if th shooting phase.

 

Another example of this would be Canticles of the omnissiah which acts as if in cover, and being actually in cover doesn’t add to this, and anything that denies cover, negates the Canticles which again are actually not in but acting as if in cover.

 

The Scions requirement is met by the Auspex acting as if in the shooting phase.

 

At the end of the day it’s a lot of command points that may not actually get maximum use if your opponent is smart. I’ve never found it to be game breaking in any way.

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I don't think they would work together. Scions can only be used in the shooting phase. While Auspex Scan says to shoot as if it was the shooting phase, it doesn't temporarily make it the shooting phase. Seems pretty clear cut that it can't be used. 

 

 

As if it were the shooting phase is pretty self explanatory.

 

It's as if it were the shooting phase - meaning strategems that work in the shooting phase would apply.

 

As if it were the shooting phase just means you resolve the shots with the same rules as the shooting phase. If that line of text wasn't there you would be able to shoot at a deep striking squad that was out of LOS for example or throw grenades at a unit that deep strikes in when they won't be in range. 

 

Move, Shoot, Fight as if it was X phase are purely to give you rules limitations on how to resolve out of turn actions so that a wall of text doesn't have to be inserted on every stratagem or special rule. This line of text does not change the phase you are in so stratagems and abilities/special rules that only work in specific phases would not be able to be used.

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Another example of this would be Canticles of the omnissiah which acts as if in cover, and being actually in cover doesn’t add to this, and anything that denies cover, negates the Canticles which again are actually not in but acting as if in cover.

.

BUT in the Deathwatch FAQ it specifically states that Dragonfire rounds do not get the +1 to hit against units that only count as if in they're in cover. How do you reconcile that with this?

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Scions can only be used in the Shooting or Fight phase. It's as simple as that. That is what the stratagem says. That is the limitation of the strat. 

If you want to use it, you have to answer one questions: is it the Shooting or Fight phase?
So, your opponent brings in a unit from reserve/deep strike at the end of their movement phase. You use Auspex Scan because it meets the criteria stated in the strat. If you attempt to use Scions of Guilliman, are you meeting the criteria? No, because the current phase is the Movement phase. Auspex Scan is not making it the shooting phase, it is only telling you how to resolve the shooting, i.e. "as though it were the shooting phase." The current phase does not change. 

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Yet auspex scan says you attack as if it were the shooting phase. So if I'm attacking as if it were the shooting phase, I can use a strategem that works in that phase.

 

If you want to argue against these weak strats you should ask GW for clarification.

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