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++Darkest Oaths - Questor Traitoris Thread++


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#1
Juggernut

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As per Brother Tyler's suggestion, here's a thread for Questor Traitoris (and Dark Mechanicum, by extension, for Index: Chaos knights).

We've got some exciting new options, as well as reduced point costs for our Renegade Knights. A lean, mean, legit army list!

PDF of the index for those who don't have it already: https://whc-cdn.game...ade_Knights.pdf

Apparently loyalists don't have access to the re-roll hits stratagem, which is nice. I don't think it's really worth using on any of the FW knights, but for a dual battle cannon/avenger knight it kicks serious ass! A melee knight is already hitting on 2+, which is a super cool change, so precious CP could be saved in that situation.

As far as I know, a hellwright (also in the FW chaos index) is the only unit that can heal our knights.

In terms of army composition, I think for my World Eaters the most knights I'd ever bring is a single knight flanked by 2 armigers. For Renegade Guard, probably 2 knights, 2 armigers, and a whole bunch of squishy bodies.

What do you think? Got any pictures of your knights to share?

Edited by Dragonlover, 25 June 2018 - 11:53 AM.
Minor title edit

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#2
TURBULENCE

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My knights are still early in construction, but my list is two questoris(warden and errant configurations) and a dominus(valiant), a small r&h battalion for extra CP and to put some infantry on the table and the aforementioned hellwright (with abyant) to help heal up the Knights and bring his own impressive firepower to the table. I can show off the hellwright for now. I had kinda hoped armigers and dominus would get free weapon selection but I get why they didn't.

received_1887630361249899.jpg

Edited by TURBULENCE, 23 June 2018 - 01:27 PM.

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#3
Juggernut

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Such a cool conversion!



#4
The Nephilim

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My knights are still early in construction, but my list is two questoris(warden and errant configurations) and a dominus(valiant), a small r&h battalion for extra CP and to put some infantry on the table and the aforementioned hellwright (with abyant) to help heal up the Knights and bring his own impressive firepower to the table. I can show off the hellwright for now. I had kinda hoped armigers and dominus would get free weapon selection but I get why they didn't.

Spoiler

Your Hellwright looks amazing. Can we get more pics of him? What House are you doing?


Edited by The Nephilim, 23 June 2018 - 04:23 PM.

“I bring you the symphony of war, the bliss of ecstasy and the rapture of a pain-filled death to our enemies.” –Fulgrim, prior to the raid of Prismatica V
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#5
TURBULENCE

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My knights are still early in construction, but my list is two questoris(warden and errant configurations) and a dominus(valiant), a small r&h battalion for extra CP and to put some infantry on the table and the aforementioned hellwright (with abyant) to help heal up the Knights and bring his own impressive firepower to the table. I can show off the hellwright for now. I had kinda hoped armigers and dominus would get free weapon selection but I get why they didn't.

Spoiler

Your Hellwright looks amazing. Can we get more pics of him? What House are you doing?

After this weekend, once I'm home again, certainly. Custom house, but loosely based off the fantastic malinax scheme. Wip pics for my first Knight are up in my DG log.
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#6
Canadian_F_H

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That is a nice comversion! Can't wait to see some paint!

The oportunity for chaos to encorporate knights is a real boon imo. While marks would have been nice, it's still exciting.
What signature?

#7
Juggernut

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True, for that brief window in 7th where we had that option, it was very cool. Just having the reduced/same price as loyalists is good enough for now. Maybe one day they'll find their way into a proper codex of sorts, or more likely get expanded in Chapter Approved.



#8
Irbis

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Just having the reduced/same price as loyalists is good enough for now.

 

"Just"? Renegades got massive boost in the ability to take character status, so you can give them warlord traits - and both +1A and FNP are big upgrades for them, for free...


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#9
Juggernut

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I could have phrased it better, I suppose. I'm saying at minimum, considering nothing else, I'm happy with the points being reduced and in line with loyalists. Everything else is icing on the cake.


Edited by Juggernut, 24 June 2018 - 01:11 PM.


#10
Lord Marshal

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As I stated on the News and Rumour thread, it's just nice that GW have acknowledged the existence of, and haven't forgotten about, the Questor Traitoris. It's the little things, y'know? It gives me hope for a Dark Mechanicum book in the far future too.

 

On another note, I haven't paid much attention to the Imperial said of things, so just how viable could pure Renegade Knight lists be? Not as much as Imperial Knights for obvious reasons, but plausible? I also don't know how much of a NO FUN ALLOWED list they are this edition compared to last.


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#11
Juggernut

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I think they are absolutely playable now. As a pure list, they won't have that many CP, but by the same token, there are only 2 stratagems that will essentially be used every single turn, so 3 CP a turn (if possible). One Super-heavy detachment allows them to do that for 2 turns.

 

Not bad, really. 

 

354 points for a melee-only (with heavy stubber, of course) knight, and (164 x 2) 328 for 2 melee armigers = 682 points for the cheapest detachment possible that still generates 3 CP. 2 of those minimum detachments are 1364 points, and that will give you 9 CP, which is pretty good.

 

If playing a 2k list, that's 636 points to upgrade weapons, add some armigers, or even throw in a dominus chassis (594 for the flamer/harpoon version, 604 for the shooty version).

 

To do it another way, you could have a flamer/harpoon dominus and 2 chainsword/fist knights for 1302 points. 6 CP from this detachment, so again 9 total. Again, one can upgrade the knights' guns and add an armiger or two. Pretty sweet!

 

Not even close to the same level as a pure Imperial Knights list IMO (with household traits, relics, and more stratagems) but I think one could play a pure RK list and have fun with it.


Edited by Juggernut, 24 June 2018 - 07:01 PM.


#12
Irbis

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On another note, I haven't paid much attention to the Imperial said of things, so just how viable could pure Renegade Knight lists be? Not as much as Imperial Knights for obvious reasons, but plausible? I also don't know how much of a NO FUN ALLOWED list they are this edition compared to last.

 

On one hand, less viable, because you're lacking household bonus (stratagems and traits are about equal unless you fish for very specific thing, and relics are nice but totally optional). On the other, more viable, because renegades have grandfathered free built bonus from before the inane WYSIWYG phase GW has now. Best shooty knight build right now is 2x Avenger that can only be build by renegades, slap that reroll stratagem on it and it's going to be pretty obscene. Grab a few of these, maybe melee knight too, sprinkle some Armigers in, and the job's a gud 'un whistlingW.gif



#13
Azekai

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Dark gods help me. I just picked up another pair of knights via the Renegades kit. I can't wait to festoon them with grisly trophies and rotting blood.

Now I just need a decent conversion 'recipe' for the gatling avengers... considering Gundam parts... 


Edited by Azekai, 24 June 2018 - 11:58 PM.

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Corruption is our armor.
Infection is our weapon.
Immortality is our reward.

 

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#14
HCMistborn

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Spellcrow has some really nice avenger bits

#15
Orpheus108

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With making one of renegade knights a warlord with a trait, do you use the traits from Imperial knights?

I'm running for a fun game a warden with battle-cannon, reaper chainsword and ironstone launcher with 2 warglaives. ( will pick up 2- 4 helverin soon though) and r&h units for a target. Maybe leman russ for added support.

Now have to work getting my valiant knight for just firepower, I've been wanting on R&H to get some major firepower support in renegade knight and will kick around some lists like adding 3 warglaives and 3 helverins, of which I can't wait to field them against the guys here at the club.

But now have to work on a DarkMech guy to go around and fix the knights?

Another question, the forgeshrine, is that imperial only fortification?

Edited by Orpheus108, 25 June 2018 - 06:38 AM.

15.jpg

#16
Orpheus108

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Don't worry, forgeshrine has keyword imperium, forgot about reading that bit
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#17
Dragonlover

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Spellcrow has some really nice avenger bits


Got a link? I just had a quick look and couldn't find them.

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#18
HCMistborn

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http://www.spellcrow...nnon-p-494.html

#19
Dragonlover

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Ah, I didn't realise they'd chucked it in with the Marine bits. Cheers!

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#20
Irbis

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Spellcrow has some really nice avenger bits


Got a link? I just had a quick look and couldn't find them.

 
IIRC, it's cheaper to just grab a Forgefiend, use gatlings and assorted bits on Knight, then still have Plasmafiend left over:
 
img_0181.jpg
 

With making one of renegade knights a warlord with a trait, do you use the traits from Imperial knights?

 

No, generic ones. They are better though, IIRC, say FNP works on mortal wounds too unlike IK version.


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#21
Dragonlover

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I also happen to have two Forgefiend Gatlings lying around! Well I know what I'm doing once my Renegade box shows up, cheers guys!

Dragonlover

P.S: I'm gonna add plus signs to the topic title, bring it in line with all our other community threads.
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#22
HCMistborn

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I was really sure I was going Loyalist, then I realized I almost always forget to use stratagems and stuff anyway, and I would rather have double weapons. So, Traitoris it isis
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#23
Juggernut

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A user on Dakka made this handy table for comparing knight weapon loadouts against various targets. This shows you the wounds expected per round of shooting per weapon:

 

374559d65427938e88ecbc681aa4eb09_100884.

 

I made this follow-up table using data from above, comparing dual-gun loadouts as well as comparing the two dominus configurations (without swapping missiles). I didn't factor in carapace weapons, meltas, or stubbers since they weren't included in the original table.

 

g2bnhk8.png

 

One must obviously take the targets into account, but with this table it's clear that dual gatling is the best across all targets. With the re-roll hits stratagem, these results can only improve. Melta cannon appears a close second, but its damage is highly skewed toward vehicles.

 

Between the dominus variants, I'd say the flamer loadout is the winner, given that with the volcano variant, damage is again skewed toward vehicles. If burning 3 CP to re-roll shooting for a dominus, the volcano variant will probably do more damage, as re-rolling the harpoon/cannons/missile of the flamer variant may only situationally be worth it.

 

Of course, range and other factors are important. Just sort of a "big picture" thing to keep in mind.


Edited by Juggernut, 25 June 2018 - 01:56 PM.

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#24
banis

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So outside of taking double gatling knight, Hellwrights healing better than normal ad mech, and maby stacking some minus leadership with the new relic. What other stuff can we do with renegade knights that imperial ones cant?. 



#25
Juggernut

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I believe the reroll hits stratagem is unique to RK.
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