++Darkest Oaths - Questor Traitoris Thread++

[banis]

I believe the reroll hits stratagem is unique to RK.

Yeah i had that i mind as well..just forgot to write it down:). I was thinking if there was something else we could do to close the powergab of the imperials.

[TURBULENCE]

Here's more of the hellwright as requested. I'll be getting back to work on my knights soon as well. I keep wanting to go buy armigers but I have enough to do already.

 

 

Hope that gives some people a few ideas. I made him just for fun but now it feels like I was predicting the future.

[Dragonlover]

Question: if I wanted to merge an Arachnarok Spider with a Knight, which one would be best to use size wise?

 

Dragonlover

[TURBULENCE]

Question: if I wanted to merge an Arachnarok Spider with a Knight, which one would be best to use size wise?

 

Dragonlover

I like the way you think. Personally, if I were to attempt something that crazy, I'd stick to a questoris Knight. The domnius isn't that much bigger if you leave The legs out of the equation, and if even say it's actually a little more narrow. However, it's more encumbered up top and I think that the curves of the questoris would blend better with the spider body.

 

But that's just my opinion.

[DuskRaider]

I'm starting to build up a small (eventually expanded) Chaos Knight force now, with 2 x Questor Knights and an Armiger (will expand to 3). I was thinking of outfitting one as a Gallant and another with two Thermal Cannons as I'll mainly just be playing against other Knight forces. I know twin-Avengers is the bee's knees but I don't see it being too effective against something as tough as another Knight. Any thoughts? 

[Tamika]

Loving this really fantastic work!!!!

[Khornestar]

I'm starting to build up a small (eventually expanded) Chaos Knight force now, with 2 x Questor Knights and an Armiger (will expand to 3). I was thinking of outfitting one as a Gallant and another with two Thermal Cannons as I'll mainly just be playing against other Knight forces. I know twin-Avengers is the bee's knees but I don't see it being too effective against something as tough as another Knight. Any thoughts? 

 

If you know specifically that you'll need the S9 then I'd say it could be worth it. CP-heavy, but rerolling # of shots then hits could really mess them up. However, improved invuln save stratagem from the loyalists will probably be super frustrating and reduce the damage significantly. That's the same as any loadout, though.

[Azekai]

 

 

I'm starting to build up a small (eventually expanded) Chaos Knight force now, with 2 x Questor Knights and an Armiger (will expand to 3). I was thinking of outfitting one as a Gallant and another with two Thermal Cannons as I'll mainly just be playing against other Knight forces. I know twin-Avengers is the bee's knees but I don't see it being too effective against something as tough as another Knight. Any thoughts?

If you know specifically that you'll need the S9 then I'd say it could be worth it. CP-heavy, but rerolling # of shots then hits could really mess them up. However, improved invuln save stratagem from the loyalists will probably be super frustrating and reduce the damage significantly. That's the same as any loadout, though.

That is why the avenger yields the best results- volume of fire. The wound chart in 8th is very forgiving. That is why it is better to shoot 24 times at slightly lower strength rather than a few d3 times at high strength. Eventually those saves are going to fail.

[Khornestar]

Yeah, seems like a somewhat frustrating reality of this edition, the volume of fire thing.

[Azekai]

Agreed. I don’t think it is interesting or tactically challenging to default to whatever puts out the most individual shots; on the other hand, l like the avenger because l hate rolling for number of shots. Not only is it unreliable, but it also adds an extra step that is basically unnecessary.

 

Not the worst thing but certainly not a selling point.

[DuskRaider]

I think the Avengers would be fun, it's just that I'm skeptical of its usefulness against other giant robots (and bits services charge an arm and a leg for a second one).

[Khornestar]

Both fair points. A punching match between loyalist and renegade knights is an uphill battle for us, and if we’re going to shoot ‘em to death there are probably better (cheaper, divided) ways of doing that. Still, makes for a larger pool of models for chaos, and they’re pretty dang cool.

[The Nephilim]

Here's more of the hellwright as requested. I'll be getting back to work on my knights soon as well. I keep wanting to go buy armigers but I have enough to do already.

 

Hope that gives some people a few ideas. I made him just for fun but now it feels like I was predicting the future.

He's amazing!

Edited June 29, 2018 by The Nephilim

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

And remember, the reroll stratagem can be used in either shooting or fight phases, so you can use it twice in the same turn.....once shooting, once fighting.

 

Our Hellwrights can heal any non-flying Daemon Engine as well, so using Decimators, Defilers, etc. in place of Armigers is probably a good call, depending on what you're looking for. They also add +1A to Hellforged vehicles in the fight phase. A crowd favorite is either a Leviathan, a Contemptor, or a "Trogdor" Relic Predator build with a Flamestorm Cannon, 2 Flamer Sponsons, and a Combi-Flamer that rolls up, toasts things and then charges with its own huge charge bonuses and high WS combined with Hellwright bonuses.

 

A Hellwright is "killier" than a Dominus, but doesn't have quite as many tricks available and is slightly less durable. Soulburner Pistol FTW.

 

Next....nothing says you HAVE to give your Warlord the Infernal Quest trait. It's nice, but you can totally use the three from the core rulebook, with Tenacious Survivor being my top pick, though Legendary Fighter and Inspiring Leader both have their place, the latter especially in mixed armies where it gives +1Ld to all friendlies, regardless of faction. Renegades, in particular, will love that.

 

On the battle cannon....yes its damage is, on average, less than the Avenger, but when it spikes, it deletes just about anything....and it will usually spike once or twice a game. You also don't have to use Command Reroll to reroll hits, thanks to Trail of Destruction and can save it for one of the shot count dice if you really want. Tzeentch Daemons/Thousand Sons can use Gaze of Fate to give you an entire reroll on shot count for one gun (doesn't specifiy a single dice, rrather a single dice ROLL, so you have to do the whole thing). 72 inch range on a model as tall as a Knight with a 12 inch move is also quite scary. Sometimes you just can't hide.

 

Traitor's Mark mixes well with other morale smashing effects (including the one from Renegades and Heretics), and also with things that wound on Leadership, like some Slaanesh Daemon psychic powers.

 

I'm personally running House Malinax, with 3x DARK MECHANICUS Hellwrights in a Supreme Command that I'm calling "The Abhorrent Sacristans."

 

Next detachment is as follows:

 

Superheavy Detachment (Questor Traitoris) Renegade Knight Thunderstrike Gauntlet Reaper Chainsword Heavy Stubber Ironstorm Missile Pod   Renegade Knight (Character, Warlord: Infernal Quest/Traitor's Mark) Avenger Gatling Cannon Heavy Stubber Heavy Flamer Reaper Chainsword Icarus Autocannon   Renegade Knight 2 Thermal Cannons Heavy Stubber Icarus Autocannon

 

 

After that, I'm running a Renegades Battalion Detachment for men at arms, with cyber-converted Mutants for the base infantry screen, a Commander, an Enforcer, and two squads of Heretek Marauders done up as evil Skitarii Vanguard.

 

I also have variants with Khorne Daemons, Slaanesh Daemons, Tzeentch Daemons, Fallen, and another that uses a Renegade Spearhead with 3x Basilisks. The core of Knights will always be the same. This new PDF has me rather inspired.

 

And before you ask....yes, I LIKE the Icarus, especially with all of the FLY all over my local meta and the fact that it kills Primaris marines fairly well even on 4+ to hit. I especially like the one on my Dual Thermal knight, because that boy's getting to reroll misses every shooting phase anyway. :)

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Here's everything I've found that can synergize with Renegade Knights:

 

Daemonic Ritual: IMPORTANT….any Chaos Character can summon. That includes a Renegade Knight Warlord if they want to give up their movement. Their high wound count and ability to be repaired makes the wound risk of summoning basically a nonissue, and knights that dual-wield guns are sometimes going to stand still anyway. As a result of the above, the Soul Sacrifice and Daemonic Pact stratagems seem like they might be tasty.

 

Woe be to those who close with a two-gun Knight and then have to deal with Emperor knows what popping out of the warp.

 

 

Psychic Powers that can have synergy with Renegade Knights:

Death Hex

Gaze of Fate

Treason of Tzeentch (with Traitor’s Mark)

Shrivelling Pox

Gift of Contagion

Cacophonic Choir (with Traitor’s Mark)

Symphony of Pain

Phantasmagoria (with Traitor’s Mark)

Creeping Terror (with Traitor’s Mark)

 

Other Items that have synergy with Renegade Knights:

 

Generic:

Banner of the Apostate (with Traitor’s Mark)

Renegade Ogryn Beast Handlers (with Traitor’s Mark)

Hellwright…..duh

Huron Blackheart (command point bonus)

Abaddon (command point bonus, buffing of screens/supports, including Hellwrights, which are HERETIC ASTARTES models)

Be’Lakor, Chaos Spawn, Raptors, Lord of Terror Warlord Trait, Terror Tactics (all with Traitor’s Mark)

Hellforged Proteus (Traitor’s Mark stacking, plus deepstrike deterrence)

Hellforged Deredeo (Hellfire Veil can help with Invulns in CC)

Hell Talon (Traitor’s Mark stacking, plus screen clearance in Movement Phase)

Sokar Pattern Stormbird (Shield Projection)

Lord Arkos (command point bonus)

Chaos Warlord/Reaver Titans (Icon of the Apocalypse/Traitor’s Mark)

 

Khorne:

Aspect of Death Warlord Trait

Skarbrand (fallback prevention, attack bonuses)

An’ggrath

An’ggrath/Uraka/Brass Collar of Borghaster/Flesh Hounds/Karanak/Monster w/Armor of Scorn/The Blood God’s Scorn Stratagem (anti-psyker)

Zhufor the Impaler/Samus (anti-psyker and Traitor’s Mark stacking)

 

Slaanesh:

Aura of Acquiescence Stratagem

Fiends (anti-psyker, fallback prevention)

Bewitching Aura Warlord Trait

The Forbidden Gem

Zarakynel (with Traitor’s Mark)

 

Nurgle:

Icon of Despair (with Traitor’s Mark)

Cor’Bax/Noxious Blightbringer (with Traitor’s Mark)

The Entropic Knell

The Dolorous Knell

Foul Blightspawn (Revolting Stench)

Tallyman (CP farm)

Horticulous Slimux (specifically the Ploughed Slime Trail to deter fallback)

Beasts of Nurgle (fallback deterrence and heroic intervention)

Plague Hulk

 

Tzeentch:

Fateweaver (command point bonus)

Aetaeos’rau’keres, Burning Chariot, Blue Scribes (anti-psyker)

Helm of the Third Eye (CP farm)

Mutalith Vortex Beast (Traitor’s Mark with Maelstrom of Madness spam)

Edited June 29, 2018 by GreaterChickenofTzeentch

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

 

I'm starting to build up a small (eventually expanded) Chaos Knight force now, with 2 x Questor Knights and an Armiger (will expand to 3). I was thinking of outfitting one as a Gallant and another with two Thermal Cannons as I'll mainly just be playing against other Knight forces. I know twin-Avengers is the bee's knees but I don't see it being too effective against something as tough as another Knight. Any thoughts?

If you know specifically that you'll need the S9 then I'd say it could be worth it. CP-heavy, but rerolling # of shots then hits could really mess them up. However, improved invuln save stratagem from the loyalists will probably be super frustrating and reduce the damage significantly. That's the same as any loadout, though.

That is why the avenger yields the best results- volume of fire. The wound chart in 8th is very forgiving. That is why it is better to shoot 24 times at slightly lower strength rather than a few d3 times at high strength. Eventually those saves are going to fail.

 

Thermal Cannons were errata'd to fire D6 shots and that's how they are in the Index PDF. Rapid Fire Battle Cannons fire 2D6. Base Renegade Knights don't have any D3 shot count weapons anymore.

[Azekai]

Good write up, greater chicken.

 

Although l still think my overall point still stands, regardless of errata on the volcano cannon. If you are wanting to chew through raised shields and good saves, having 24 lower strength shots is better than 2d6 or 4d6 higher strength shots.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Good write up, greater chicken.

 

Although l still think my overall point still stands, regardless of errata on the volcano cannon. If you are wanting to chew through raised shields and good saves, having 24 lower strength shots is better than 2d6 or 4d6 higher strength shots.

Statistically, the Avenger does have a slight edge in damage overall, but at the cost of a shorter range and secondary weapons that you have to get VERY close to use. I've just seen far too many times that the Battle Cannons' spike damage won games, and 6 extra Heavy Stubber shots can do a lot to make up the difference against Infantry.

Edited June 29, 2018 by GreaterChickenofTzeentch

[DuskRaider]

Now Hellwrights cannot heal Questor (non-FW) Knights, can they? Sering as they'd need the Dark Mechanicum keyword. That's a bit of a bummer. I like the idea of a Knight summoning a big bad daemon(s) to dish out the pain.

 

Like I said in the thread in the other forum, don't forget about FW Knights either. The Acheron is a beast against infantry and the Porphyrion is just plain scary in general.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Hellwrights can heal Questor Traitoris specifically and separately, regardless of what faction they are themselves. Same with Daemon Engines and any Dark Mechanicus vehicle. If they chose <LEGION> in their Faction keywords, they can repair <LEGION> vehicles too.

 

The spelling errors that were causing issues now that the Index: RK is out were fixed in an FAQ for the IA Forces of Chaos Index. The Hellwright and Hellwright on Dark Abeyant were speficially errata'd to make sure this works....and the FW Knights can have Questor Traitoris or Dark Mechanicus to kill the issue even deader.

 

Everything is fine. :)

[Khornestar]

Knight summoning is a very fun and interesting proposition. It's a shame the mechanic just isn't all that worthwhile at the moment, but if ever there were models worth protecting (psychic defense, chaff, etc.) it's a shooty knight. Volcano dominus sounds like the most worthwhile for it.

[TURBULENCE]

So is it terrible when I found out my buddy could bring more total points to the table than me my first response was that I should buy more knights?

 

He beats me at 8000 to my 5100. So I'm thinking one more dominus, two more questoris, at least 4 armigers and maybe, if I'm feeling crazy, a cerastus of some variety. I should note that I'm only using renegade rules for pick up games, my friends let me run loyalist rules with my chaos forces. So I'm only building official patterns, as much as I want to run a mortis Knight.

 

So what would you add to round out what I already have, using the numbers of knights I'm thinking of adding above.

Right now it's a Warden, errant and valiant in my collection. I know the third questoris will be a gallant but besides that I'm undecided.

[DuskRaider]

You know, you could always pick up more arm bits on eBay and swap them out for whatever you're playing... as long as you didn't glue the arms that are on now.

[TURBULENCE]

I have not, But I'm weird and I like building my units with nearly set equipment. The only thing with magnets are carpace weapons.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Knight summoning is a very fun and interesting proposition. It's a shame the mechanic just isn't all that worthwhile at the moment, but if ever there were models worth protecting (psychic defense, chaff, etc.) it's a shooty knight. Volcano dominus sounds like the most worthwhile for it.

Projecting power onto objectives, screening, and turning the tables on people who charge you sound like the best applications.

 

"Oh look....you charged me and I didn't die?"

 

"BLOODLETTERS! I CHOOSE YOU!!"

 

(Spends CP on reroll to make sure charge hits from 9 inches and walks away whistling suspiciously as Bloodletter horde butchers unfortunate squads)

 

 

My friend who plays the dual Battle Cannon Knight is already thinking about deploying Flamers of Tzeentch as a screen once the opponent commits to an advance.

 

I think it'd be cool for a Tzeentch Knight to have a Warp Vortex from a Mutalith on top of it or maybe have a Slaanesh one with chopped up bits of Eldar architecture to look like a webway portal.

Edited June 30, 2018 by GreaterChickenofTzeentch