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IL XIII - Eagle Warriors

Brotherhood of the Lost

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#26
bluntblade

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I suggest that after Travier's revelations, the rule of four is observed.

 

Be careful you don't confuse consumption with consummation. One of those won't please Khorne, even if Slaanesh likes it ;)

 

BTW for writing their Legion's general character, the Astral Claws might be a useful comparison. I suggest you talk to Kel about that, he can be very helpful there.


Edited by bluntblade, 02 August 2018 - 02:47 PM.


#27
Meros of Mexicatii

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Thanks, I'll take a look when I can.

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#28
simison

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Posting this before it's forgotten. Meros has decided to rename Alexos Travier to Socraes Travier. And, yes, he does have voices in his head.

 

Hm. I'm curious if Alexandros can hear those voices.


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#29
Nomus Sardauk

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Socraes? As in like a b**tardised version of Socrates? Odd, what was his reasoning?
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#30
MikhalLeNoir

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Because Socrates heard a voice in his head

Open for Comissions, just PM me. The Wardens of Light were like golden blades, cutting down their enemies scarring the darkness.

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#31
Nomus Sardauk

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Huh, fair enough.
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#32
Meros of Mexicatii

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Alexos Travier will now be known as Socraes Travier as a loyalist, and Ixiptatlan in his native Mexicatii tongue - used prior to the Emperor's arrival and after his turn to Chaos. All instances of Alexos referring to this character should henceforth be changed to Socraes. Apologies for the inconvenience.

 

Looking at the Eagle Warriors wiki entry I found the following passage (I believe to be written by Blunt):

'Even Sagitarii's death and funeral did little to effect this stability (although it was later discovered that he had left a part of his soul knitted to that of Alexos Socraes).'

 

As far as I can tell this bond or 'kniting' has yet to be expanded upon, like how it happened and what sort of communication can occur, so my intent is to create similarities between Socraes and the ancient Greek philosopher Socrates - from which the primarch's name is derivative. Consider the following:

'In Plato's Apology of Socrates, Socrates claimed to have a daimonion (literally, a "divine something") that frequently warned him—in the form of a "voice"—against mistakes but never told him what to do.'

https://en.m.wikiped...ical_mythology)

 

Alternatively:

'As a counselor, the eudaemon whispered advice and opinions in one's ear. Such person escorted by the eudaemon was considered fortunate. It was said that Socrates during his lifetime had a daemon that always warned him of threats and bad judgment, but never directed his actions. According to Socrates, his daemon was more accurate than the respected forms of divination at that time, such as either reading the entrails or watching the flights of birds.'
https://en.m.wikiped...mon_(mythology)

 

What this comes down to is having Sagitarii present as a daemonic entity partially possessing Travier and giving him advice and precognition - which I think would be a good way of getting Travier to Anesidora where his personal revelation takes place. Sagitarii, while aware of the Emperor's meddling, could not tell Travier what happened because Travier - quite rightly - would not want to place complete trust in his unstable mind. Therefore he needed to use the Anesidora Rift to show Travier what the Emperor did, just as Erebus could not just tell but had to show Horus the Emperor's supposed malice during the ritual on Davin IV.

 

How exactly? Well, we can't have Sigi sneak in before the Emperor arrives because he'll just get purged, so he has to come in sometime after when Mexicatii is truly a legion homeworld. I propose that when shrines and warrior lodges become more commonplace, Travier has his own set of 13 holy statues, one for each deity (side note: 3 each for Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeench and Slaanesh, and 1 for Malice perhaps?) which he can perform personal rituals with. It can be during one of these rituals that Travier summons the daemonic essense of his long-lost 'father', engaging in dialogues that will ultimately lead to his complete fall to Chaos.


Edited by Meros of Mexicatii, 17 August 2018 - 10:19 PM.

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#33
MikhalLeNoir

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Oh, thst sounds good. And the socrates part will offer a link to the friendship between gwal and travier

Open for Comissions, just PM me. The Wardens of Light were like golden blades, cutting down their enemies scarring the darkness.

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#34
simison

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Oh, thst sounds good. And the socrates part will offer a link to the friendship between gwal and travier

 

Yeah, this gives us a better angle to work with. And we've always wanted Travier to be a bit of a talker.


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#35
MikhalLeNoir

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Hmmm. We should add Deshain Kane to this universe^^

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Open for Comissions, just PM me. The Wardens of Light were like golden blades, cutting down their enemies scarring the darkness.

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#36
bluntblade

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Where do the XIII initially hail from?

#37
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“The stars are not right. That is the excuse uttered by too many servants of the Pantheon, to absolve themselves of weakness of limb, mind or will. We of the Thirteenth Legion admit no such feebleness. We have come through ignorance and apostacy, we have flagellated ourselves and in the blood of fratricide, ourselves baptised. We are the high priests and heralds of the Primordial Annihilator, and if the stars are not right we will yoke and haul them into the ordained pattern.”
Extract from Socraes Travier’s sermon following the Volriun Massacre


#38
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Turning an eye toward major players in the Eagle Warriors' military command, we have Takar and Azraltan leading unknown Chapters/companies. Then Acatli Ihuatzan of the Sixth and Huetic Xiutel of the Eighth. 



#39
Nagual

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Hello All! My name is Kos, I am from UA, and, being absolutely astounded by the work already done by participants of this project, would like to help with it's expansion as much as I can.

As discussed with and suggested by Simison and Bluntblade, I would like to jump right into the action and provide everything I came up with on Eagle Warriors legion.

 

Aztec Legion


psyker - pre primarch revelation - martial. after primarch  rev - esoteric
Astartes with supernatural abilities were always numerous among most of the legions of space marines. The Emperor himself was the strongest psyker in the Galaxy, and many of his gene-sons bore the same gift. Although no one of sound mind could say it about the Master of Mankind, the sons and their legions' gift was certainly regarded as a taint or something even worse by others in Imperium, sometimes by their comrades and brothers themselves. This was not the case with the honoured XIIIth, Emperor's eagle warriors, master flankers and shock legion of the Imperium of Man. Considering these and other fitting titles and aliases, it is of no surprise that their Librarians, were some of the most martially inclined of their gifted brothers among all legions. The bulk of the legion's psyker institute studied - and excelled in - pyromancy, kineticism, levinbolt and other straightforward, damage-oriented spheres of warpmancy. Even though it did not elevate them to the levels of awe the famed 1st Legion masters of intricate scrying and deep recon enjoyed, it certainly added much to the hot-headed image their battlefield tactics created as a facade of the Legion. Sorrow and irony both take place when one thinks of how that 'shallow' facade helped the terrible taint go unnoticed when the right time came. Why would one suspect the magi-barbarians of the XIIIth? Their transgressions never exceeded 'too much prometium storms upon the battlefield' levels; and even when they did, the end results far outshone the damage done by the magi. If any could have the most insight and therefore the biggest reason for alarmism about the Eagle Warriors psy-enthusiasm slowly emerging through the later years of the Great Crusade it was Ka'wil's Grave Stalkers who often operated along the XIIIth expeditionary fleets or near their tasked targets. But we all know what path did the Legion of the Grave walked themselves.

The two main ideas for psykers in the XIIIth: the overt and the subtle. The overt: much like Pyrrids of the TS in canon (descibed above). Fire/bombing/lightings, pure combat specialty and elementalist focus. No options like providing supernatural bonuses to their fellow ranks or debuffing the enemy ones. The subtle: priestly manner. Buffing other EW pre-battle with ritual scarifications and war-paints, blessing weaponry and armour. Blesses and curses enchantments. Substantial amount of anti-psyker protection for psyker-heavy enemies of mankind, thorn-like protection: Instead of saving the life of the protected by the enchant, it should trigger the same damage to the attacker. (Both designs are emphasising the offensive-oriented EW warfare style but the first way establishes the overt image while the 2nd adds to a priestly aura much needed for initial heretics. I personally cling to the latter option, although did not provide fluff text for it yet.

Why the initial heretics should have at least an element of WB priestly-scholarly touch: Because the brash, straightforward pure-warrior legions cannot even initiate let alone orchestrate the Heresy/Insurrection or any other kind of rebellion except their own personal rebellion which would inevitably result in another Legion' purge and eradication from Imperium annals.
Why not the full TS-WB outlook for the initial heretics: Because why to copypaste? Also, which is much more important at least to me personally, the initial heretics should be a respected, honored and a renowned legion with just some minor sinister, warlike hints to their image. Not the outsiders of the Legiones Astartes warrior club, like in canon.



Origin - Kentral Merika; rad-infected jungles, underground catacombs and city-states. Mexicatii, jungle Feral World.

Legion Flagship - Eclipse/Icualoca (Gloriana-class Battleship with requested modifications, upped speed and spacecraft bays (eagle-condor-hawk squadrons) vs less armor except the fore of the ship, reduced long-range lances in favor of close range armament and superheavy Nova cannon at fore). Icualoca also means 'eating away' in Nahuatl.

 

It seems fitting for next reasons:

 

1) the strongest - connection to Aztec lore IRL, the sun and moon eclipses played the role of utmost importance in Aztec-Mayan mythology. It's also one of the first associations coming to mind when thinking about 'Mesoamerican culture'

2) it's short, simple and IMO therefore more impressive then a probably more overt and warlike or pompous name would be, much like Kurze' Nightfall wins over Fulgrim's Pride of the Emperor..

3) it has a very nice message in it, a telling of an ominous, inescapable (projecting heavenly bodies movement' contextual gravity onto the human-built construct) shadow bloting out the sun and stars over the planet it has chosen as a target.

Structure: Eagle Warriors Legion had a strict hirarchy being separated into big Divisions (Expedition fleets) with 8 Chapters (around 8000 Astartes each) in every Division, or Talon. In the late years of the Great Crusade the number of Talons was 24, comprising of 190 000 EW strength. (looked at the Fandon Wiki of EW - 187 000, I added 3 more considering the fact that Legion was constantly growing both because of Ixiptlatlan requests and secret cloning which made it hard for Imperium scholars to obtain the exact number of marines by the start of Insurrection) They were never spread out widely across or beyond the borders of the Imperium like the XXth, as their void route patterns resembled the Legion battlefield tactics, with multiple mobile units acting independently but close enough to be ready to assist to each other. All these Talons were waging the intestellar crusade not far from each others expeditionary fleets, allowing the Legion to be assembled in three-quarters strength in three standard weeks. (have to check more on the space travel time throughout HH books to be more precise here, any advice or correction warmly welcomed) Talons frequently combined their forces with eath other and with other Legions. Those divisions often bore names of famous Aztek cults and myths from before Age of Strife, such as the famous Talon of Red Smoking Mirror (3rd) or Talon of the Night Drinker (8th).

Camazotz - extremely secretive recon squads present in every Eagle Warriors chapter replacing bone-white of the standard coloration with soot black. Usually assigned to the last companies or comprising a full separate one, like in 4th, 6th, 9th, 17th Talons, they lived apart of the rest of their chapters, appearing only for rituals, gladiatorial fights and war councils. Their task and part of the training was also to collect info on the other battle brothers without those knowing of it. While being the continuation of battlefield training, aimed to keep Camazotz ever alert, vigilant, honing their recon analytical and data-operating skills to the same levels of lethality as combat weapons, this practice had later led to dire consequences. The gathered info would prove vital in the purges of the Legion's loyalist elements shortly before the Insurrection.

 

Ocelotl - veteran legionaire title. Balam - veteran squad serqeant honorary title. Official titles meant nothing inside of the legion reputation and in Serpent Lodges - to earn the right to be called Balam the aspirant should go through the new circle of trials and humiliations reminiscent of the Astartes training and indoctrination, with the eventual heroic deeds at the culmination of the path.

 

Otontin - the fierce close quarters fighters, the assault elite of every chapter. While most legions elite wore terminator armor, this honor was kept for the highest ranking military order in the XIIIth ranks - Shorn Ones. The Otontin were close-combat elite who traded the heavy armour for agility and speed of their bladecraft. Most of Otontin squads preferred fighting in the company of each other, and every chapter Mechanicus attachment had records of multiple armor-modification requests from the Otontin members to lighten it even further. Weapons of choice for the XIIIth duelling elite included dual-wielding chain axes or swords of shortened patterns, as well as two-handed chain swords and power swords for squad leaders.

inspired by palatine blades, but more 'mundane' and common

 

The Shorn Ones (or the Jaguar Toa, by othe names (checked the existing wiki article) - the elite of the whole Legion, the warriors who held the highest esteem both from the legion commanders and from the battle brothers. To be counted among them and to wear the bone-white with red trim was the peak of an Eagle Warrior achievements. Only the lower part of the leg armor was left as the vivid jungle-green of the standard color pattern, to metaphorically elevate every one of the Shorn into a giant towering above the jungles of their native lands, ready to smash down any foe before them. They were equipped with Cataphractii-pattern terminator armor suits, specifically designed Storm shields with heavy Aztek ornamentation and heraldry, and preferred the wide range of weaponry. Unlike many other legion elites who were designated to bear just one specific type of close or ranged combat weaponry either to mark their adherence to a specific mode of warfare or to honor their gene-Father' weapon of choice, the Shorn Ones enjoyed their right to choose from the widest array of available weapons choosing the ones suited best for the type of war zone and enemy to be fielded against. When, however, the coming battle did not require any specialized choice of weapon, Shorn Ones preferred the most imposing and impressive ones, such as heavy flamers, multimelta and thunder hammers. They were a sight to behold on the filds of battle, always arriving into the thickest of slaughter and taking on the toughest foes, burning, eploding and melting down anything in their path. An oath every Shorn One made when taking the red-trimmed Cataphractii armor was to 'never take a step back in battle', an oath they held sacrosanct.

Almost all of the Talon and Aztek circle commanders came from the ranks of Shorn Ones.

(taken from IRL atec military orders)

 

Coyote warrior priest - Chaplains.

Warrior priest role in Aztec military was to make sure all battle captives were kept alive, for to be sacrificed later.

 

I will add BeastMasters (awesome existing idea) in my next post.

Kentral Merika - rad jungles. ziggurats. cartel-based militaristic society. (In the next part I tried to describe the origins, mentality and cultural influence of future XIIth legion recruits).
origins of Kentral Merika ferocious Kaartil societies trace back to the late 2 milenium turf wars when the extremily militarized criminal organizations evolved into city-states with strict based rules, ever warring between each other, toughening their soldado and sicario in endless guerrilla wars. Although belligerent and aggressive towards each other, they came to be united into one single formidable force at the very first signs of an outer threat like the ones of Panpacific empire of Moulland Send. their constantly shifting borders and regions of influence forced them to adopt a highly alert, mobile system of routes and tunnels, and ever-alertness for the outer attacks of enemy Kaartils brought up hardy, grim generations of murderers. Betrayals were punished with exceptional brutality unheard of in other regions of ancient Terra. On the contrast, loyalty was highly praisedand rewarded by gifts of slaves, unique arms and armour, cyber-augmentation and battle drugs; common folks provided for the bandits armies were protected and sustained with everything necessary. Ability to withstand torture and cruelty in the name of the Kaartil Lords and the region they represented was seen and praised as the brightest of virtues among both the soldado and the locals. Masochism, trials of pain and fortitude were ever present in Kaartil ranks, some of them even adopting the marks of self-mutilation as a valued addition to the list of one's deeds and a credit taken into consideration when discussing one's future progress in Kaartils' ranks. This marked the period of several crticial shifts the consequences of which influenced Eagle Warriors legion in more ways then they would ever admit. First, the resources-based conflict made way for ideological and religious conflicts shortly before the Unification wars. Second, this led to the eventual unification of all Kaartil societies from Kalam in the south (Sud Merika north) to Tonochtix and Guarer in the north (mid Nord Merika) before the threat of Emperor's forces in future. Third, and most important, the psyker threat emerged and brought the restoration of the Azteci and Mays ways from museums and underground catacombs back into real life. Several rituals  devised during those days and which formed the backbone of the Kaartil's command structure also made their way into nascent Eagle Warriors legion when the Emperor, impressed with the furious, fanatical and relentless Kaartils' resistance, decided to draw a certain amount of gene material from the inhabitants of the region.
First of the rituals is the Sangrenudo, Bloodknot. Kaartil's lords, squad leaders, or even footsoldado mixed their blood in one vessel, usually a heavily ornamented plate, and ritually drank the mixture, with a designated 'priest' among them ensuring the unshakeable loyalty to each other and the Kaartil. Of course, it was more a symbolic criminal tradition than anything actually altering human will and instincts, however, within the upper echelons of Kaartil power the ritual did influence the minds of participants as it was tainted by supernatural abilities of the psykers conducting it. This factor alone has forced the Emperor to demonstratively execute the highest Kaartil command units of each and every region to the last man and woman even those who did not exhibit the psykers curse aura.
Second was the Bloodfeast. This was a ceremony designated to honor an elevation of Kaartils members to a local Lord level. It involved a literal bathing in blood as well as pouring down the rest of the blood onto the participants to mark their submission to the newly appointed master.
While the list of depraved rituals and unholy festivities of the Kentral Merika is quite long, these two rites are mentioned as the most important since these were the first to return into collective Ehecatl memory once their newfound Primarch retained his lost soul parts and established the Serpent Lodges in every Talon and every chapter of the Legion. Being the most down to earth and simple in form and purpose, they quickly chained the whole legion into one damned community, with serpent lodges' rites drawing a clear line between the loyal and the possible opposition.


How the EW dealt with a battle which demanded a direct, ground-stomping heavy armoured conclusion when lacking resources to do that.

(I want to provide a more unique scenario for the legion, with them daring into Alpahlegionesque tactics, with the battle involving anti-teleport xeno powerfields, huge tall structures, heavy crossfire and explosions)

downward ziggurats
idea: a present Ixiptatlan made for his bro Icarion - a zigg made the same height into ground as into the sky. a mirrored ziggurat resembling a giant scrying crystal Icarion used, with it's lower half being in the ground. . this location could be used in future for the final conversion of Icarion to Chaos side. Could be both an orbital station-based or entrenched in some planet' surface.

 

I would like to both expand on the existing notes based on your suggestion and corrections, and to focus on the Primarch for whom I have at least one nice idea. Of his torture, reasons why some planet visit broke the Emperor's seals on his soul and how.

The existing idea is awesome, I just would like to add that the Emperor not only tortured Ixiptlatlan, he tried to remove the remnants of the high priest soul stuck in his son's (as Socraes killed that priest, the existing text states the priest managed to inject a remnant of his soul into Socraes'). So when the Emperor, in his regular disregarding manner, coldheartedly tore out the remaining taint of the priest's soul, it inflicted a terrible pain and spiritual trauma upon the 13th, leaving a spiritual hole in his mind and soul, so the Emperor patched him up for several more thousand hours. It would also explain how easily he managed to go along with Gwal and why Raktra always mocked Ixip seeing his physical flawlessness but feeling the terrible wound and spiritual bleed, finding it to be disgusting even by his own standards. So when the time came and the XIIIth arrived to Teohuaca and ixiptlatlan sensed something greatly disturbing and met the barbaric, feral half-people reminding him of Mexicatii tribes, it was the soul shard of that Mexicatii priest who was summoned from the depth of warp by the Gods themselves after a complete mass-suicide of the locals, to complete the puzzle, to fill the gaping wound in Socraes mind and soul, revealing to him his true purpose.


Edited by Nagual, 14 January 2019 - 02:21 PM.

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#40
MikhalLeNoir

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Wow
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Open for Comissions, just PM me. The Wardens of Light were like golden blades, cutting down their enemies scarring the darkness.

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#41
Nomus Sardauk

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Damn Nagual, you sure know how to make an entrance! It's always great to see new people taking an interest in the project and be inspired to add to it. :)
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#42
Doctor Perils

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Welcome to the Bolter and Chainsword and to the Brotherhood of the Lost!

I've read through your ideas and think there are quite a few interesting concepts there, but I would like to make some comments:

I was already concerned about how close the Eagle Warriors were to the Word Bearers, so I don't agree with your point of view that there should be more of the "WB priestly-scholarly touch" distilled into the EW
I do agree that they shouldn't be shunned by their cousins but that already wasn't the case (iirc)

I also don't agree the psykers should take too large a place - there aren't as many psykers in the Legions as you make out and we already have several psyker-heavy legions.

I quite like the concept of the "shield of thorns" as it would set them apart from their counterparts

I do prefer the "icualoca" as a name for the gloriana (compared to suntalon) but "eclipse" sounds more Grave Stalkery

I think (but I'm not sure) we've already got secret recon/police squads somewhere (so I'm not sure the Camazotz have a place here)
I'm not a fan of renaming the Kaskuta into Otontin though some of the concepts there are feasible
Also not a fan of the "shorn ones" name, but like the colour scheme and oath though they shouldn't have shields

I like the cartels

I'm not sure either way for much of the rest
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sml_gallery_29004_12090_3983.pnggallery_77459_13226_2824.png The War Wolves - Previously known as Lord Thørn

#43
bluntblade

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Not having them ostracised is a key factor, though I'd say that's more a matter of reinforcing what we've currently got. The best way we can do that is to work on their early history and Exemplary Battles, not to mention other background campaigns.

 

The EW don't actually have a campaign to their name where they fought with the Emperor or in some really key theatre, just yet.


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#44
Meros of Mexicatii

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Greetings, Kos. I'm Meros, the current head of the XIIIth. It doesn't take a genius to see that not a whole lot has happened under my reign in terms of personal additions, ao I appreciate you taking the time to put forth a nice chunk of interesting lore to pilfer through. As I'm sure many have said already, a lot of our work on the Eagles for now concerns their early days, and going through AlphariusOmegon's original content to spruce it up.

I'll go through all that you've written and offer my opinions on it. I would be very happy to discuss many of these things with you and explain my ambitions for the legion overall - I admittedly have neglected to update this thread with the ideas explored in our Discord.

I have to agree with Thorn in regards to the presence of psykers. A focus on pyromancy and other primarily offensive powers makes sense given their very direct approach to warfare, but I don't see any logical reasons as to why the Eagles would necessarily have a larger number of psykers among their ranks. The two different varieties of psyker you mention are well thought out, though for the sake of tabletop rules and to make sure the legion doesn't have too many special bits, the existing 'medicine man'/shaman Chaplain-Apothecary (still sort of working it out) characters seem better suited to giving blessings and bestowing words of wisdom.

I did wish to give the Eagles a slight hint of Word Bearer, particularly in their communions and dealings with daemons that go back to the early crusade era Mexicatan tribes and their pantheon of 13 divines, but I made sure to write in their ancient history that the far more ancient precursors to these barbarians - the Bearer-like philosophers and scholars who first called Mexicatii their home - were no match for the savage reality of the Warp, and that it would be peerless strength and cunning that saw humanity maintain its hold on that world. You make a good point about the first heretics needing to be respected, and I think jovial references I've made to Travier authoring this universe's codex equivalent may help with that. Of course, the inclusion of a Codex at all is another discusion for later. Being respected doesn't have to come as a result of being a bookworm like Erebus, rather, I was hoping that wise words and tactical talent would be a fitting alternative for this legion of purebred warriors.

I agree pretty much 100% with your outline for the flagship, and indeed their fleet organisation. It aligns perfectly with the scattered thoughts I had on the subject but had not yet put to words. (I'm a bit crap with naval combat and organisation).

In my blood-soaked heretical grandeur, I'm afraid I somewhat overlooked the humble Reconnaissance Squad, or the 'Camazotz' in this case. The concept is very fitting, but this isn't something I would want as a unique unit in regards to tabletop rules - unless you think they could replace another of the existing units, which I'm more than welcome to discuss. Adding cool lore to 'normal' squads is still something I'm a fan of, so what you've written is definitely worth keeping. Its not as if the Mesoamerican themeing exists only for unique squads, after all.

Assuming I'm correct in saying that Ocelotl is a term that exists outside of the legion command structure and is just used to assign particular marines as having excelled, this is fine. If its the name of veterans as in a unit designation for Veteran Tactical Squads or Terminators, that would clash slightly with my ideas for the Jaguar Toa, but these are ideas that you wouldn't have known about so you're by no means at fault if that's the case.

Otontin, while functionally the same as Kaskuta, appear a bit different thematically. Originally the Kaskuta were drugged up and out of their mind, I described them as similar to Death Company, as a display of how the Eagles' ways became gradually more wicked as their brutal culture weeded its way back into the legionaries' hearts. In truth, there isn't much of a difference, in the end they're still a specialised mob of melee fighters who eschew Terminator Armour in favour of enhancement (bionic or biological) and speed. While I would prefer my variant, I'm happy to work out a middle ground between that and your design - I have no desire to simply cast aside what you've presented.

No issues with the Warrior Priest, its very similar to the shaman-ish unit I mentioned before. It has a name but quite frankly I'm a bit crap with those aswell.

I'm not sure if I'm much of a fan of having their Mesoamerican culture start on Terra itself, not because its a bad idea in itself, but because of how the Mexicatans evolved into their tribal ways from a formerly peaceful community of greek-like philosophers. I do have a solution however. I subscribe to the belief that the Emperor planned the separation of the primarchs and indeed the Heresy scenario in order to eventually ascend to Godhood. A part of this would be having each primarch land on a specific planet that would tailor them to their legions on Terra. As the Terran Eagle Warriors were raised from the ancient South Americans, Travier would land in the completely unrelated but coincidentally similar environment of post-Strife Mexicatii, meaning that the origins of the planet as I wrote it and of the legion as you wrote it can coexist.

The ziggurats are interesting, but I'm not sure how the legion would really utilise them outside of the specific scenario of having a symbolic place to turn Icarion.

What you say in regards to Sigitarii leaves me conflicted. Your suggestion is that he is annihilated entirely and returns upon his turn to Chaos, though I had it in my mind that Socraes would always have a piece of Sigi in his head - it is this fact that indeed inspired his name to be changed from Alexos to Socraes in reference to Socrates, who himself claimed to have a voice in his head warning him of mistakes. However, as with the origins of the legion, I'm keen to let both of our ideas try and mesh together. Having Sigi in the back of his mind taunting him whenever an error is made, combined with Travier not really knowing who it is or where its coming from, further combined further with the lingering pain of his soul being torn asunder by the Emperor, can all lead up to Teohuaca where a great realisation occours, and Sigi is able to complete his personal plans to turn Travier against the Emperor.

I'm looking forward to a continuation of this discussion, and I hope I've provided ample feedback for the time being.
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#45
Nagual

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Hi Meros and gentlemen,

First of all, I thank you all very much for the feedback. I indeed was inspired by this project and it's well thought out deviation from the canon lines like genetic Nikae, Mad Max primarch (Raktra) and many others, inspired to the point of devising all these ideas which are currently only a mishmash of thoughts and assumptions which are in no way designed to replace the existing.

Second, I would like to stress out that the ideas I presented need to be polished out, some more than others. I will go over the points you mentioned to clarify my stand on those, and then to discuss those which you more or less approve:)

Third, I have to confess that I am not quite strong tabletop-wise, unfortunately. I prefer the lore, fluff and storyline side of Warhammer universes therefore I might fall behind on discussing the tabletop equivalents of different squads specialties and abilties. Of course, considering my enthusiasm for BotL, I think my tabletop knowledge will be boosted significantly in the coming months.

On the closeness to Word Bearers: Lord Thorn and Bluntblade are actually right. This was more of an emphasis of what is already agreed upon. Just wanted to make sure I understood the current image of XIIIth correctly. It seems I did. Codex authorship is a great switch from religious, demagogue approach of canon heretics. I did not inted to bring even more WB-touch on top of what we already have but felt the need to check what kind of priestly touch they (EW) have or will have after Ixip's revelations on Teohuaca.

On psyker-heavy: my apologies, it seems I did not properly edit my text on it. I did not intend to describe XIIIth a psyker heavy legion, only to distinguish their psykers' style from other legions'. The variants of psykers I presented are more of a choice, I don't think it would be fair for some Legion to have both types of librarians. Meros' option to switch the blessings and thorn-like protection to chaplains (warrior-priest) scope seems to be the best one here. We could build up the 'Falling' with chaplains of EW studying these blesses and curses under reinvigorated post-Teohuaca Primarch.

On the Camazotz and other names of the squads. Since the existing specialist squads are already designed (Jaguar Toa, Kaskuta, Skyhunter) what I propose is a system of honorary titles which gives morale and initiative boosts to certain squads or squad commanders.

Camazotz are a separate bunch since it's a rather simplistic reference to Mayan god of bats, therefore they fall out of the strict Aztec military orders hierarchy. We can abandon it or just leave a 'camazotz' alias for legionnaires exhibiting 'stealthy' tendencies.

Aztec military hierarchy is quite fitting to Astartes organization. Ocelotl and ehecatl, jaguar and eagle warriors respectively, rise above the common infantry. Above them are Otomie (pl. Otontin) named after the ferocious people whose lands Aztec conquered but whom they deeply respected for their military prowess. The Shorn Ones (a more exquisite name is cuauhchicqueh, which is also harder to pronounce) are top of the game. From here, an Aztec can aspire to a commanding office, a general, a praetor, a lord-commander, etc.

Warrior priests also have their own hierarchy but it definitely does not fit the chaplains organization in Legions so we could leave that for later when describing XIIIth internal power games after complete fall to Chaos.

So, as I see it, all EW are by default 'ehecatl' - Eagle Warriors. Ocelotl and balam could become just honorary names for assault squads and their sergeants, to distinguish them from rank and file legionaires as even more ferocious. I will get more unique aliases
Otontin could be the veteran tactical squad names. I made a parallel with Palatine blades because they were not a permanent formation but served in their own squads and were assembled as a unit only against specific enemies deemed worthy of their time and effort. That's about their organizational side. Now, on the fluff: I have two ideas for them currently:
1) duelling society of the more restrained and disciplined swordsmen of the hotheaded Legion. This option is even more palatine reference but is also justified by IRL aztec military order perception of warrior prowess were killing of an enemy was considered clumsy, compared to capture.
2) a reference to Mexicatii feral world, with emphasis on spear-throwing hunter packs assembled for taking down exceptionallty tough and horrific beasts of the jungle, something more primal than the rest of the legion but still more disciplined and coldblooded, since we already have Kaskuta as opposite. Also Kaskuta would be permanent service with focus on close-quarter combat while Otontin would be informal organization of toughened hunters with ranged weaponry focus and Destroyer touch. EW Destroyers were not touched at all iirc and I also found Brotherhood of the Lost to be more Destroyer-friendly project than canon which is awesome, Destroyer theme is not even properly covered in HH books which is a shame.

I personally cling to the second variant. The fact that they assemble only for the toughest enemies and fights would justify the use of Destroyer weaponry. The fact that they do not serve separately from their squads and are not shunned and ostracized like most Destroyers in canon, but respected for their sacrifice of exposure to rad weaponry and their cold-blooded resolve, would be a nice hint of EW warrior society mentality.
Also on second thought I find 'disciplined duelist' option to be more of a copypaste of palatines, even though rid of EC pomp and posh.

Shorn Ones is just a European interpretation of their name (as they were only ones sporting mohawks) and ofc Jaguar Toa sounds much more elegant. I'm glad you like the colour scheme. I agree they don't need the shields (borrowed too much from their irl weaponry), and, having read the Corpora Ferro short story by Blunt, I think they actually should hang around with distinctive weaponry such as macuahuitl swords and spears. I also aim to change cataphractii to tartaros since EW overally prefer to be rather quick than tough, and see no logical reason why their elite would be different. Maybe tactical wise, to provide a proper 'anvil' to the 'hammer' of the rest of their nimble, hard-hitting force. Please share your thoughts on these.

On Terran origins: Let us stick to your plan, Meros. I don't think we need to keep the Mesoamerican culture link to Terran legionnaires. No need to devise the coincidence between them, I think we can safely remove the roots of the rituals as Mesoamerican, just leaving them as simply local, devised by cartels' elders or psykers. So the origin and culture of Terran EW has fanatical loyalty and resolve, hit-and-run tactics, lightning attacks, distinction by city/region but overall unity, brother-in-crime attitude and trials of pain and fortitude. The only coincidental link left to Mexicatii Aztek culture would be the location of Kentral Merika as primary recruiting ground for the future XIIIth. Their meeting with long lost Mexicatii humans would be kind of looking in the mirror for both - the former cartel soldado, now one of the Emperor's best, meeting the former scholars and now savage, deadly killers. But the whole Ocelotl-Otomi-Shorn names would stem from Mexicatii tribal culture. I bet Socraes would only support it from the day he reunited with his Legion and encourage the cultural assimilation of Terrans by Azteks.

On Socraes: I actually misread the Sagitarii story, it seems he dies of his own death. Totally agree on your suggestion to mix the ideas. I like the concept of Socrates reference very much, just wanted to add more internal corruption, a flaw and a spiritual wound going almost invisible for everyone around him except for a few most perceptive, slowly spreading the taint in his mind. I have a question on it then, how would the Emperor not notice Sagitarii piece presence in Alexos mind upon commencing his 'medication' on XIIIth?

Main points I would like to focus on then while continuing the discussion here:

- attitude towards mortals. I have an idea of an 'Aztek gene' and Ixiptatlan's ambition to spread it further to XIIIth fiefdom planets; much like Vlka Fenrika elitist attitude and refusal to recruit anyone but Fenrisians. The difference here would be that Aztek gene would be spread out to other Feral worlds in Ixiptatlan's desire to expand the legions numbers greatly without mixing in 'weaker' blood of non-Azteks. Not being able to boost it in time would be another factor which led him to the idea of cloning and other prohibited genemancy with Cognis sect' help. I would also like to expand it with Solar Auxilia regiments of Mexicatii-origin being the only ones treated by EW with respect and eventual compassion, with an aim to draw recruits from them too. Or it could be one of these ideas, as we will discuss it further.


- Background campaign, any legion's grand ball, with or without the Emperor. Currently we have Qarith crusade and Rangdan xenocide as major campaigns involving many legions at once; we could create a separate specific one for XIIIth or add them along another legion or two in a whole new campaign.


- Expand with detail on the battles and planet assaults mentioned in the wiki article


- Socraes story during the period from being reunited with the legion to the Day of Revelations.


I welcome all and any comments, corrections and thoughts on Eagle Warriors, too:)


P.S. whoever devised Koschei Kharkovic (Кощей Харькович) as one of the primarchs, has my eternal gratitude and giggles. As a Russian/Ukrainian, the moment I saw Koschei name I realized that's the best fan WH40k project:)



#46
Kelborn

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Hey there, Nagual!

Quite an impressive entry, thumbs up! :tu:

Regarding Kozja; though Thorn bears the title of their Legion Master, the initial concept behind the Warbringers and Kozja Kharkovic came from Skalpynock. :)

Edited by Kelborn, 16 January 2019 - 10:06 PM.

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#47
MikhalLeNoir

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Uhm....
Koschei is the Primarch of the Godslayers
Kozja is the Primarch of the Warbringers
Shame Kel


.Shame

^^

Open for Comissions, just PM me. The Wardens of Light were like golden blades, cutting down their enemies scarring the darkness.

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#48
Kelborn

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Ehm...

Never post while trying multi tasking at work. :D

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#49
simison

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Oops!

 

BL Fluff Segment (12k words)

Anthology: 30% - Incomplete - (Words)

FW Fluff Segment (10k? words)

History: 15% - Complete

Organization: 15% - N/A

Exemplary Battles: 15% - N/A

Crunch

Legiones Astartes & Unique Wargear: 5% - Incomplete - (AO did make a first draft.)

Rites of War: 5% - N/A

Unique Units: 5% - Incomplete - (Just suggestions at this stage.)

Unique Characters: 5% - Incomplete - (Two have been picked out)

Primarch: 5% - Incomplete - (Just a name on this thread)

 

Total - 15%

 

Need to name the old thread something different to make it clear that it is now defunct! Eagle Warriors are now 15% better than my last review. Also, what happened to Nagual?


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#50
bluntblade

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Who?





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