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Looking for advice after first game


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#1
Ceranidian

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So I just played my first game of 40k and got absolutely destroyed (which is to be experted I guess). It was 750pts of my DW versus Raven Guard. I had:
5 man KT, 1 frag cannon and bolters/shotguns
3 Bikers + 2 VV (combat squad from the above)
5 man KT with 2 missile launchers + stalkers
Jump Captain with TH+SB
Librarian
Laserback

He had:
Primaris Librarian
Redemptor
VenDread
2 Squads of Reivers (deep striking)
5 man TacSquad with plasma

Now I don't really mind losing (especially at the start) and made some obvious tactical mistakes, but I am looking to improve so I can put up more of a fight tomorrow when I face another opponent at 1000pts. My plan was to remove the Librarian and add a Watchmaster and VenDread, but I'm considering just finding ways to get more bodies in the list.

Any pointers to keep in mind when playing? Remembering Mission Tactics is one thing I realized about halfway through. I know my opponent is bringing Catachans.

#2
Black Orange

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Watchmaster is auto mandatory - check.

 

5 man KT, 1 frag cannon and bolters/shotguns

 

Did you deep strike this squad?

 

3 Bikers + 2 VV (combat squad from the above)

 

I would lose this squad.

 

5 man KT with 2 missile launchers + stalkers
 

Get a shooty Mortis dread to replace this unit.

 

 

 

Jump Captain with TH+SB
 

I would keep the Captain.

 

Laserback

 

Assback is better choice.



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#3
Ceranidian

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Thanks for the advice! My setup was Librarian and FC team in the Razorback and Captain running with the Bikers. My idea was the Bikes could put out some decent dakka, but they got out of position and mowed down by the Redemptor pretty quick. I think maybe they might fare better against Astra Militarum where their twin boltguns could clear some bodies out?

I'm thinking of trying a bigger KT in a Rhino instead of the Razorback. Either that or bringing a Corvus (although it seems like a quite hefty points investment). Looking over the models I have I've got the following two lists in mind

LIST 1

Watchmaster

Jump Captain

8 man KT with 2 FC, bolters, and shotguns (basically the models I got)

Rhino

VenDread

5 man KT, stalkers + ML (don't own a Mortis to replace them)

3 Bikers + 2 VV

 

LIST 2

Watchmaster

Jump Captain

7 man KT with 2 FC, bolters, and shotguns

Corvus Blackstar

VenDread

5 man KT, stalkers + ML  -OR-  3 Bikers (and add another vet somewhere)



#4
Black Orange

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I like the second list better (without bikers).



No one can beat my Wu Tang Sword Style!my 40k blog:

https://greenblowfly.../alan-seds.html - Terminus Est - Ultramarines 247
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#5
Ceranidian

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Would you run both Captain and Watchmaster in the Corvus then? The overlapping auras would seem like a bit of a waste but maybe I'm thinking about it the wrong way.

#6
Lemondish

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Would you run both Captain and Watchmaster in the Corvus then? The overlapping auras would seem like a bit of a waste but maybe I'm thinking about it the wrong way.


I use my TH jump captains to deep strike and hunt big targets, usually alongside a vet squad and jump librarian.
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#7
Ceranidian

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I do have a squad of 5 Vanguard Vets (working on getting more normal vets ready for the tabletop!) I could deep strike in with the Captain. Seems a bit risky though since I'm essentially gambling on making at least one 9" charge.



#8
Lemondish

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I do have a squad of 5 Vanguard Vets (working on getting more normal vets ready for the tabletop!) I could deep strike in with the Captain. Seems a bit risky though since I'm essentially gambling on making at least one 9" charge.


It's usually something I do alongside a storm bolter vet squad since their ridiculous weight of fire in double tap range is what I'm dropping them from deep strike for. I hit the captain with veil of time for the charge to hopefully boost him closer, but honestly the main reason I deep strike him is because he'd otherwise take up 2 spots in a Corvus that would be better filled with more storm bolters in my eyes. Too bad he can't just dual wield them haha

Edited by Lemondish, 06 July 2018 - 12:38 PM.


#9
Ceranidian

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It's usually something I do alongside a storm bolter vet squad since their ridiculous weight of fire in double tap range is what I'm dropping them from deep strike for. I hit the captain with veil of time for the charge to hopefully boost him closer, but honestly the main reason I deep strike him is because he'd otherwise take up 2 spots in a Corvus that would be better filled with more storm bolters in my eyes. Too bad he can't just dual wield them haha

 

Yeah, I can see how that would be good. Working on getting my hands on some SB Vets so hopefully I'll be able to try it out soon! 

 

For tonight's game I'm still undecided between more bodies and a Rhino or fewer guys and a Corvus. I'm leaning towards more bodies (since my firepower just becoming non-existant after a few casualties seemed to be a cause of trouble last game) but any input is of course appreciated. Quickly though, I'm leaving in about an hour! happy.png

 

EDIT: Spelling is hard. 


Edited by Ceranidian, 06 July 2018 - 01:06 PM.


#10
Lemondish

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It's usually something I do alongside a storm bolter vet squad since their ridiculous weight of fire in double tap range is what I'm dropping them from deep strike for. I hit the captain with veil of time for the charge to hopefully boost him closer, but honestly the main reason I deep strike him is because he'd otherwise take up 2 spots in a Corvus that would be better filled with more storm bolters in my eyes. Too bad he can't just dual wield them haha

Yeah, I can see how that would be good. Working on getting my hands on some SB Vets so hopefully I'll be able to try it out soon!

For tonight's game I'm still undecided between more bodies and a Rhino or fewer guys and a Corvus. I'm leaning towards more bodies (since my firepower just becoming non-existant after a few casualties seemed to be a cause of trouble last game) but any input is of course appreciated. Quickly though, I'm leaving in about an hour! happy.png
I think that's a toss up. The Corvus probably has a better chance of getting the bodies where they need to be and brings much more firepower. If you feel you have enough of a distraction that the rhino should survive until delivery, then go with more bodies.

Probably isn't very helpful, lol sorry

But put my vote on list 2 without the bikes.

Edited by Lemondish, 06 July 2018 - 01:16 PM.


#11
Ceranidian

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It's usually something I do alongside a storm bolter vet squad since their ridiculous weight of fire in double tap range is what I'm dropping them from deep strike for. I hit the captain with veil of time for the charge to hopefully boost him closer, but honestly the main reason I deep strike him is because he'd otherwise take up 2 spots in a Corvus that would be better filled with more storm bolters in my eyes. Too bad he can't just dual wield them haha

Yeah, I can see how that would be good. Working on getting my hands on some SB Vets so hopefully I'll be able to try it out soon!

For tonight's game I'm still undecided between more bodies and a Rhino or fewer guys and a Corvus. I'm leaning towards more bodies (since my firepower just becoming non-existant after a few casualties seemed to be a cause of trouble last game) but any input is of course appreciated. Quickly though, I'm leaving in about an hour! happy.png
I think that's a toss up. The Corvus probably has a better chance of getting the bodies where they need to be and brings much more firepower. If you feel you have enough of a distraction that the rhino should survive until delivery, then go with more bodies.

Probably isn't very helpful, lol sorry

But put my vote on list 2 without the bikes.

 

 

Thanks for the input!

Both you and Black Orange liked that list better, so I think I'll go with that. Will be exciting to try out the Corvus for the first time! biggrin.png

 

On a related note; are bikers considered not very good? That would be a shame because I got 6 of them. I thought of them as essentially more expensive SB vets with 2 wounds, T5 and more mobility. But maybe the price increase per model is too steep (SB Vet = 20 points, biker = 29 points)?



#12
FabulousRex

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Bikers are indeed good, but they're hard to use well, and they really gain more from getting a Sergeant in the FA slot. 6 bikes is good weight of fire, but they need to skirt the edges of the fight turn 1,unless you have ALOT of them.

Also, you can screen bikes with a Rhino or Razorback to good effect.
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#13
Black Orange

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Remember to take the upgrade for the Corvus so it rerolls 1s to hit... really worth it imo.

No one can beat my Wu Tang Sword Style!my 40k blog:

https://greenblowfly.../alan-seds.html - Terminus Est - Ultramarines 247
wc.jpg

Blood and Honor!

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Mary_Sue Mary Sue is a term used by losers


#14
Lemondish

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It's usually something I do alongside a storm bolter vet squad since their ridiculous weight of fire in double tap range is what I'm dropping them from deep strike for. I hit the captain with veil of time for the charge to hopefully boost him closer, but honestly the main reason I deep strike him is because he'd otherwise take up 2 spots in a Corvus that would be better filled with more storm bolters in my eyes. Too bad he can't just dual wield them haha

Yeah, I can see how that would be good. Working on getting my hands on some SB Vets so hopefully I'll be able to try it out soon!

For tonight's game I'm still undecided between more bodies and a Rhino or fewer guys and a Corvus. I'm leaning towards more bodies (since my firepower just becoming non-existant after a few casualties seemed to be a cause of trouble last game) but any input is of course appreciated. Quickly though, I'm leaving in about an hour! happy.png
I think that's a toss up. The Corvus probably has a better chance of getting the bodies where they need to be and brings much more firepower. If you feel you have enough of a distraction that the rhino should survive until delivery, then go with more bodies.

Probably isn't very helpful, lol sorry

But put my vote on list 2 without the bikes.

Thanks for the input!
Both you and Black Orange liked that list better, so I think I'll go with that. Will be exciting to try out the Corvus for the first time! biggrin.png

On a related note; are bikers considered not very good? That would be a shame because I got 6 of them. I thought of them as essentially more expensive SB vets with 2 wounds, T5 and more mobility. But maybe the price increase per model is too steep (SB Vet = 20 points, biker = 29 points)?

The bikes are good, in enough numbers. I'm just concerned you wouldn't have that, though I can't speak from experience here. Feel free to give em a shot, though!
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#15
Ceranidian

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I see, so Bikes are essentially more of a supporting unit? Makes sense leaving them at home then and using them more in larger point games where I can fit in other units as the main force.

On my way to the game now, Corvus and the rest in bag. Will let you know how it goes!
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#16
Black Orange

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Good luck and may your Watchmaster roll hot !



No one can beat my Wu Tang Sword Style!my 40k blog:

https://greenblowfly.../alan-seds.html - Terminus Est - Ultramarines 247
wc.jpg

Blood and Honor!

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Mary_Sue Mary Sue is a term used by losers


#17
vigitant

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If you do run the stalker team, switch one of the ML for a heavy bolter.  Use it to throw d3 mortals at people for a CP.
Its fun blowing up skimmers with 3d3 ranged mortal wounds, then charging with a watchmaster w/ superclavis for another 2d3 mortal.



#18
Drizzt79

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If you do run the stalker team, switch one of the ML for a heavy bolter.  Use it to throw d3 mortals at people for a CP.
Its fun blowing up skimmers with 3d3 ranged mortal wounds, then charging with a watchmaster w/ superclavis for another 2d3 mortal.


Unfortunately I think its just 1d3 mortal wounds with the hellfire shells, since you make just a single hit roll.......3d3 would be really nice though

#19
Lemondish

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If you do run the stalker team, switch one of the ML for a heavy bolter. Use it to throw d3 mortals at people for a CP.
Its fun blowing up skimmers with 3d3 ranged mortal wounds, then charging with a watchmaster w/ superclavis for another 2d3 mortal.

Unfortunately I think its just 1d3 mortal wounds with the hellfire shells, since you make just a single hit roll.......3d3 would be really nice though

Fire tempest shells for another d3, and use the flakk missile for yet another d3 on top.
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#20
Drizzt79

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If you do run the stalker team, switch one of the ML for a heavy bolter. Use it to throw d3 mortals at people for a CP.
Its fun blowing up skimmers with 3d3 ranged mortal wounds, then charging with a watchmaster w/ superclavis for another 2d3 mortal.

Unfortunately I think its just 1d3 mortal wounds with the hellfire shells, since you make just a single hit roll.......3d3 would be really nice though

Fire tempest shells for another d3, and use the flakk missile for yet another d3 on top.

Oh yess of course then :-)
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#21
Ceranidian

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So I got tabled again. Good news is it took longer and I took quite a few of them down with me!

The Corvus did good work and ripped up Infantry Squads left and right and the big killteam cleared out the stragglers easily. Then a Leman Russ with full plasma rolled around the corner and my marines went "Poof". Literally got wiped out in one volley, ouch. I actually did put a HB in the Stalker squad last second and used the Hellfire Shells to take down a Chimeara 👍

I feel like I put up a decent fight, should have realized the danger of the plasma tank earlier and focused it harder. Overall I could probably have pulled out a surprise victory with some lucky rolls, so I'm pretty happy. Next up is getting some SB Vets for more firepower and CPs!
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#22
Black Orange

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What was your opponent's list ?



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#23
Ceranidian

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Catachans
4 Infantry Squads, 2 of them with mortars
2 Chimeras with heavy flamers, each containing
- Company commander
- Command squad with 2 plasma 2 melta
- Special weapons squad with three flamers
Leman Russ Tank Commander with full plasma

I think that was it. Defenitely learned to fear plasma, even the command squads did work with rerolls from orders.

#24
Black Orange

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Your list is going to have some issues with armor like a Leman Russ. What gun is your dread rocking ?



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#25
Ceranidian

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Lascannon and fist. Would switch to a Missile Launcher arm if I had one.




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