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Kill Team Focus: Deathwatch

Kill Team game

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166 replies to this topic

#1
Irbis

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https://www.warhamme...omepage-post-1/
 
Opinions?
 
I wonder if DW in Kill Team will have same optimal loadouts as current 40K meta, or if you'll need a side force...

#2
mjrwaud

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I'm betting it'll favour lighter loadouts, Killteam (in its previous iterations) hasn't allowed really "tough" targets (no 2+ saves for example) so SIA will pack as much punch as we're likely to need. Melee / getting into melee might also be more important so those loadouts might also be more worthwhile than they are now... 

 

We'll see!



#3
Lemondish

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A few thoughts...

 

I'm interested to see what, if any, changes come for SIA. Wounding everything on 2's is probably too powerful, so will SIA shift a bit and if so, how? Maybe it's not as much of a huge bonus given the type of infantry enemies we've been seeing in these previews...

 

Rival Chapters is a really flavourful way to highlight how Deathwatch is made up of many marines from many chapters, and sometimes they'll interact in different ways. I think that's super neat and wish we saw some more of those types of flavourful 'pulling from across the astartes' rules and options in the DW codex itself. I'm imagining a Space Wolf and a Blood Angel bickering throughout the game.

 

Secondary to all that, and a thing I've been kind of hoping for even though it's probably unrealistic - kill team could be a way to test some changes to mechanics for wargear and rules for some units and tactical roles. We know that cover is going to be extremely important in kill team, but I'm not sure we're entirely sure at this point how that manifests in the ruleset. Could kill team be a view into potential 40k changes writ large?



#4
MadEdric

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My friends and I are really looking forward to Kill Team. Seems that Vets could cover every base, will be interesting to see what Intercessors and Reivers can add.



#5
TheBigAristotle

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I'm excited that my army is WYSIWYG and I'll have a ton of options.  Also I have two sets of 5 Reivers, one of each loadout.  Intercessors on the other hand... still working on that.

 

Sadly the Dark Imperium box's Intercessors have their shoulder armor already on the model, so I have to do a bit of clipping and fitting to get the DW pads on :(



#6
Irbis

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My friends and I are really looking forward to Kill Team. Seems that Vets could cover every base, will be interesting to see what Intercessors and Reivers can add.

 

I'd actually say Vets look kinda pointless in Kill Team. Primaris are twice as durable for almost the same points, and the biggest Vet advantage, gear, is kinda meh given the fact you simply don't need even plasma, never mind melta or frag as there are no tough targets for them. Sure, storm bolter is nice but it's overkill for most targets and 30 inch range is going to be even better. Hell, primaris have best combi-weapon for Kill Team - their combi/GL is cheap, good against even the toughest Kill Team opponents, and if grenades have special rules, gives DW capability no other faction can match...



#7
Lemondish

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My friends and I are really looking forward to Kill Team. Seems that Vets could cover every base, will be interesting to see what Intercessors and Reivers can add.

 

I'd actually say Vets look kinda pointless in Kill Team. Primaris are twice as durable for almost the same points, and the biggest Vet advantage, gear, is kinda meh given the fact you simply don't need even plasma, never mind melta or frag as there are no tough targets for them. Sure, storm bolter is nice but it's overkill for most targets and 30 inch range is going to be even better. Hell, primaris have best combi-weapon for Kill Team - their combi/GL is cheap, good against even the toughest Kill Team opponents, and if grenades have special rules, gives DW capability no other faction can match...

 

 

Hmm, it seems this assumes that the rules for kill team follow very closely and almost completely to the 40k rules, which I wouldn't say is the most likely scenario. 



#8
CCE1981

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I am incredibly ambivalent to Kill Team right now. There is next to no information to make any conclusions on anything right now.
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#9
TheBigAristotle

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My friends and I are really looking forward to Kill Team. Seems that Vets could cover every base, will be interesting to see what Intercessors and Reivers can add.

 

I'd actually say Vets look kinda pointless in Kill Team. Primaris are twice as durable for almost the same points, and the biggest Vet advantage, gear, is kinda meh given the fact you simply don't need even plasma, never mind melta or frag as there are no tough targets for them. Sure, storm bolter is nice but it's overkill for most targets and 30 inch range is going to be even better. Hell, primaris have best combi-weapon for Kill Team - their combi/GL is cheap, good against even the toughest Kill Team opponents, and if grenades have special rules, gives DW capability no other faction can match...

 

I'd have to imagine the rules and points are going to change.  This game is supposed to be played on small maps with small groups.  I wouldn't be surprised to see multiple wounds on characters or reduced ranges on weapons.  Or factors that reduce range and accuracy.



#10
Lemondish

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My friends and I are really looking forward to Kill Team. Seems that Vets could cover every base, will be interesting to see what Intercessors and Reivers can add.

 

I'd actually say Vets look kinda pointless in Kill Team. Primaris are twice as durable for almost the same points, and the biggest Vet advantage, gear, is kinda meh given the fact you simply don't need even plasma, never mind melta or frag as there are no tough targets for them. Sure, storm bolter is nice but it's overkill for most targets and 30 inch range is going to be even better. Hell, primaris have best combi-weapon for Kill Team - their combi/GL is cheap, good against even the toughest Kill Team opponents, and if grenades have special rules, gives DW capability no other faction can match...

 

I'd have to imagine the rules and points are going to change.  This game is supposed to be played on small maps with small groups.  I wouldn't be surprised to see multiple wounds on characters or reduced ranges on weapons.  Or factors that reduce range and accuracy.

 

 

Or battlefield roles being limited to specific unit types. 



#11
MadEdric

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Looking at the three specialist roles we've seen so far. There are close combat, sniper, and demolitions specialists.

Reivers most likely could be CC and demo specialists, though only intercessors were shown as specialists in the Space Wolf pic. Intercessors are shown to be all three, vets most likely as well.



#12
ashc

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This looks so cool. I'm well up for small games I can use my stuff in on my dining room table in 45mins.

#13
Irbis

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So, we know a bit more about DW now (yes, technically it's SM primaris, but DW gets the same ones):

 

https://www.warhamme...team-rules-101/

 

So, you get a leader, up to 2 primaris with grenade launchers, rest has just rifles. Pity, a bit less customization than I hoped. Though, the bit with grenades is interesting - wargear options seem to suggest they are fixed, but grenade launcher text seem to suggest there are more kinds than listed. Maybe DW gets special issue ones (yes, yes, I know, pipe dream) :P



#14
Lemondish

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So, we know a bit more about DW now (yes, technically it's SM primaris, but DW gets the same ones):

https://www.warhamme...team-rules-101/

So, you get a leader, up to 2 primaris with grenade launchers, rest has just rifles. Pity, a bit less customization than I hoped. Though, the bit with grenades is interesting - wargear options seem to suggest they are fixed, but grenade launcher text seem to suggest there are more kinds than listed. Maybe DW gets special issue ones (yes, yes, I know, pipe dream) :P


No surprise the Primaris options are few.

#15
Vel'Cona

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Given that GW is attempting to make KT mimic WH: Underworlds as much as possible it doesn't surprise me that build options are going to be significantly limited.  The latter has been immensely popular (especially competitively) because it follows a very rigid system that forces players to take specific setups, which in turn allows GW's design team to internally balance accordingly.  KT isn't precisely the same in that it has actual build profiles, but limiting them allows GW the same kind of "smaller sandbox" so they can attempt to keep things level (keyword: Attempt :P).

 

I think this will be a bone of contention and a measure of disappointment for wargamers that want the "crunchier" gameplay of older Kill Team, Necromunda, or Mordheim, as those games allow significantly more build flexibility and have a deeper ruleset than that so far spoiled in "new" KT.  Thankfully, 1 of those games is still available for players that want it, so it's not like we lost anything in the transition, really :)


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#16
Lemondish

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Given that GW is attempting to make KT mimic WH: Underworlds as much as possible it doesn't surprise me that build options are going to be significantly limited.  The latter has been immensely popular (especially competitively) because it follows a very rigid system that forces players to take specific setups, which in turn allows GW's design team to internally balance accordingly.  KT isn't precisely the same in that it has actual build profiles, but limiting them allows GW the same kind of "smaller sandbox" so they can attempt to keep things level (keyword: Attempt tongue.png).

 

I think this will be a bone of contention and a measure of disappointment for wargamers that want the "crunchier" gameplay of older Kill Team, Necromunda, or Mordheim, as those games allow significantly more build flexibility and have a deeper ruleset than that so far spoiled in "new" KT.  Thankfully, 1 of those games is still available for players that want it, so it's not like we lost anything in the transition, really smile.png

 

I'd also add that the constant reminders that this is a game they intend to support for quite some time makes it likely that we may see it evolve to include those deeper, crunchier components in the future. A fundamentally solid core set of rules that can expand over time is a pretty good start, I think. 


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#17
Aegir_Einarsson

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And If you wan’t some crazy stuff you always have narrative/open play mode.

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#18
anarchistscourge

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I just hope the support they give isn’t the kind of support there giving necromunda where so much of the stuff is done through forgeworld.

#19
Irbis

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Actual pic of DW unit:

 

https://i.imgur.com/uZOanR8.jpg

 

Note 'max' column in statlines. Also, inventing new unit (DW gunner) whose sole purpose seems to be taking Frag Cannon seems weird. Maybe different point cost/skills?


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#20
ashc

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I don't think it's weird at all, it's just the equivalent of having Necromunda 'heavies' - so you can't just spam them as your main infantry unit with all-powerful weaponry.


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#21
Irbis

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I don't think it's weird at all, it's just the equivalent of having Necromunda 'heavies' - so you can't just spam them as your main infantry unit with all-powerful weaponry.

 

But you can't spam them anyway? With DW point costs, you can at best field 5-6 marines. Since you'll want the two characters, that makes "spam" impossible anyway. Why bother?

 

So, looking at the page further, we can see stratagems (hopefully Hellfire one gives us mortal wounds like muh enemy stand gives them to Chaos). What is very worrying though, I don't see any melee options bar power sword/maul or one guy taking HTH. Not even chainswords? Also, it looks like taking storm shield requires giving up your gun?



#22
hammer grimblood

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I don't think it's weird at all, it's just the equivalent of having Necromunda 'heavies' - so you can't just spam them as your main infantry unit with all-powerful weaponry.


But you can't spam them anyway? With DW point costs, you can at best field 5-6 marines. Since you'll want the two characters, that makes "spam" impossible anyway. Why bother?

So, looking at the page further, we can see stratagems (hopefully Hellfire one gives us mortal wounds like muh enemy stand gives them to Chaos). What is very worrying though, I don't see any melee options bar power sword/maul or one guy taking HTH. Not even chainswords? Also, it looks like taking storm shield requires giving up your gun?
Why the need for both the Sgt and Blackshield?

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#23
Lemondish

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I don't think it's weird at all, it's just the equivalent of having Necromunda 'heavies' - so you can't just spam them as your main infantry unit with all-powerful weaponry.

But you can't spam them anyway? With DW point costs, you can at best field 5-6 marines. Since you'll want the two characters, that makes "spam" impossible anyway. Why bother?

So, looking at the page further, we can see stratagems (hopefully Hellfire one gives us mortal wounds like muh enemy stand gives them to Chaos). What is very worrying though, I don't see any melee options bar power sword/maul or one guy taking HTH. Not even chainswords? Also, it looks like taking storm shield requires giving up your gun?
Why the need for both the Sgt and Blackshield?

Another 3 attack marine, plus whatever kill team version of Atonement Through Honour ends up being. The picture doesn't show enough of the text for that rule, so it's hard to guess.

#24
Irbis

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Why the need for both the Sgt and Blackshield?

 

Because it's big improvement in statline, rules, gear and skill access for mere pittance in points. Since with DW points cost you'll always have a couple left over it makes little sense to not upgrade them, IMO.

 

Also, interesting video on backstories, traits, and hobby side of Kill Team, using DW as an example:

 



#25
Black_Knight

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Has anyone seen any information on Primaris? All I can find is the Veteran Datasheet.


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