The Shark Jumped: Debating FeMarines, Primaris Too

[Karack Blackstone]

Hello all.

 

I have been debating making this thread for a few days.

 

I am really starting to enjoy the thought of just doing a simple headswap on some of my new Primaris and possibly some of my to be built Astartes models, to get a pretty decent female presence in my Wolves Great Company.

 

I'm pretty sure there will be those that are going to be angry, insulted, and otherwise not happy about this... Well, it's my army, and I think if all I do is female heads, and all the rest of the bits are GW, even if I get laughed at, I really don't care anymore. I think the game improving overall might well require properly fluff introduced female Astartes and Primaris, which would mean all that should be done is a head change out, and past that, the fluff should truly be as ... heated of a debate in game as it likely will be out of game. The heat however should be self-controlled out of game, clearly.

 

Still, I need to save up a bit more to order the heads and figure out what I intend to do, overall, with the total number, and the overall placement of the female headed models in my GC.

 

Advice please? Also, there's no stopping me, or at least, only truly compelling arguments will stand a chance of changing my mind.

 

Constructive criticism please? Thoughts, feelings, feedback, and cogent input welcome, as well.

 

---

 

Edit, copy-pasted from a post I made on page 4, I think this bears editing into the OP:

 

As for me, I am inclined to go down the line of...

 

- FeMarines are a touchy subject in setting, too

- Only female warriors that are in the same situation as a male recruit will be considered (Edit: Or, per the same rules as male recruits, in all cases)

- There will likely need to be a small to decent, possibly significant, regimen of genetic engineering and treatments that will prepare the female recruit to become an Aspirant

- Only those that make it, same as the men, will make it to Blood Claw

- After that, they're no different than a male Astartes once they get to BC

 

Edit 2: Added clarity to point 2 in the list, above

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Go for it from my stand point. Like you say it's your army. Not sure where you could get bits, but I suspect anyone who makes not sisters of battle probably has some decent power armor heads that are female.

[Karack Blackstone]

Statuesque mini's in the UK, or at least, so is the website's nation extension, has some techno raiders female heads, if I recall the name of the 10 head set correctly.

 

From there, other options and possible ranges of choices are most welcome.

[Wispy]

I'm pretty sure there will be those that are going to be angry, insulted, and otherwise not happy about this.

 

all the more reason to do it.

 

the older i get the more bored I get from the bro-centric armies. I can't even remember why i was so mad at the concept when I was younger. i mean, i guess cuz it would break the lore but the lore can be changed. "Here's a new branch of space marines, coming to all the chapters, primaris++, it lets us  space marine ladies up now, doubling our recruitment options!" 

 

i've wanted to do some sort of valkyrie or shield maiden thing with space wolves for a while now. I really like how stormcast are co-ed. look at this, just adds a lot of great variety to the miniatures and makes them less uniform:

 

[Karack Blackstone]

 

I'm pretty sure there will be those that are going to be angry, insulted, and otherwise not happy about this.

 

all the more reason to do it.

 

the older i get the more bored I get from the bro-centric armies. I can't even remember why i was so mad at the concept when I was younger. i mean, i guess cuz it would break the lore but the lore can be changed. "Here's a new branch of space marines, coming to all the chapters, primaris++ we can space marine ladies now, doubling our recruitment options!" 

 

i've wanted to do some sort of valkyrie or shield maiden thing with space wolves for a while now. I really like how stormcast are co-ed. look at this, just adds a lot of great variety to the miniatures and makes them less uniform:

 

<Pic snipped for reduced quote size>

 

 

Wispy, I get where you're coming from completely.

 

I mean, sure, testosterone laden Space Marines made perfect sense in the '80's and into the '90's. The problem is, society is a bit more accepting of the differences between a strong, fit woman and an equivalent man. Men and women develop muscle in very different ways. The problem is that most of the time, it seems like society expects women build up muscle the same way as men, and trust me, over the years, with enough skilled search fu, a strong, fit woman is not the same as a man that does the same workouts afterwards.

 

Still, for fairness to the fluff, and because I think the armor would actually need to hide the overall differences, as showing said differences might actually result in less overall protection to the FeMarine wearer, I'm only going to accept a head swap. That's it.

 

Thanks for the encouragement, all. I do hope that the final ratio of men to women is around 4 to 1, at most 3 to 1, to keep it close to what I feel is right, at least, for my units.

I have the new Stormcast Eternals Battletome for just this reason, and I think, overall, that this new lore book is the entire reason I finally chose to do this project.

 

Oh, and for those that want to claim I'm a Heretic for doing this, time will tell if the fluff changes to allow limited, likely trial runs of Female Astartes and Primaris. I think the lore should.

[Radu]

I say go for it. The beauty of this hobby is that you can do what ever you want with the mini's so long as they are WYSIWYG in my opinion. Who cares what the heads and bodies are as long as they are identifiable as GH or BC or whatever and the weapons are obvious. Even if you treat them like ablative armour (i.e. wolves) it will be a unique and entirely flavorful addition to the army. If anyone gives you a problem with it, tell them to piss off and let you enjoy your hobby your way.

[Arentius]

I too say go for it, I mean even Arjac hints that he'd be pro femarine. I plan on doing it when the new SoB come out and converting them to be Valkyries (counts as grey hunters)

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Go for it man. As more female stormcastes/sisters come out it will make our ability to do this way easier.

 

It is ironic to me that this thread popped up today. While I was having lunch today I saw an older lady (50-60 yo) with biceps larger than mine. It was crazy. I'm not super-fit nor am I unfit but I am pretty sure she could have crushed me. It may have also been a person who was formerly a man. I was in an interesting part of town where that stuff is not uncommon. *shrug*

[The Saint Ragnar]

Love the idea! I wish I had read the Ashes of Prospero before building my army as I would love to do the same idea. I have heard Victoria Miniatures is pretty good for head conversions.

 

There is always new additions to my list like some Valkyries being counts as Wolf Guard with Jump Packs and shields (or maybe bikes and shields).

[TiguriusX]

A decent place to find female models that fit 40k is on ebay

 

https://www.ebay.com/str/warexstore

 

 

I got my female assassins there 

 

They also have power armor figures (sisters of battle of femarines) and a Leman Russ type figure

 

Might be worth checking out

[Triszin]

I'm for it, and frankly think wolves should be the first to get them. Lots of people dislike the wolves already, I don't think it'll change the way they view wolves much.

[Wispy]

A decent place to find female models that fit 40k is on ebay

 

https://www.ebay.com/str/warexstore

 

 

I got my female assassins there

 

They also have power armor figures (sisters of battle of femarines) and a Leman Russ type figure

 

Might be worth checking out

A little too stripper-like for my tastes.

 

The stormcast treatment is best. More lithe, a little slimmer.

[TiguriusX]

 

The stormcast treatment is best. More lithe, a little slimmer.

 

 

Unfortunately I agree with your observation not all the models are appropriate.  I am intentionally covering up parts of my assassins

[Bulwyf]

It is your army you can do with it as you please.

 

It would not surprise me if we get Shieldmaiden Marines at some point and Fenris would be a great place to start if they went that way.

[Yoyo ninja]

As it's your army, I say do what ever you want. People should be free to play their armies as they want to, that's the joy of this hobby.

 

But I'm going to be the decenting voice in this thread. I don't want to see GW take it that way.

 

First of all, we have been told for the last 30 years that the best and brightest human to ever walk the earth was the Emperor, and it took his incredible intellect to creat the Primarchs and then eventually the Space Marine legions. We are also told that no person before or since has ever come close to his level of intellect.

We are also told that the implanted organs are keyed to male hormones because they came from male Primarchs. So the organs will need remaking to work with females. But without the Emperor it is going to be beyond the abilities of anyone in the Imperium.

This plus the level of understanding of technology declining in the 10,000 years, makes it, at least to my mind, an impossiblity.

 

Also, the Imperium is somewhat keen on tradition, and changing things just because isn't something they are keen on. Esspecially traditions set by the Emperor, and he made all male space marines. Who would go against him?

 

As an out of universe argument, we have Sisters of Battle, an all female Power Armoured faction. If we must have female Space Marines for the sake of diversity, we logically must also have male Sisters of Battle. And then we have another Power Armoured faction that isn't all that different from the rest.

 

I could go on, but that's already a large enough wall of text

[Kasper_Hawser]

Go for it. If GW finally goes for female space marines, you will have the honor of calling it first. well not the first, but you'll be the first to be ballsy enough to do so.

 

Creating female Space Marines doesn't make me angry. Imperial Soup and other unholy combination army lists makes me angry.

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

 I think the game improving overall might well require properly fluff introduced female Astartes and Primaris,

Why? How does that 'improve' the game? Should there also be male Soroitas by that logic?

 

I just don't get this line of thought. At all. How does changing something fundamental about 40k fluff (hell, one of the only fundamental things in the ever changing fluff) improve it? Why do you think it's a necessity? To me, changing something fundamental like that doesn't 'improve' anything, it just turns 40k into something else, not 40k anymore. Don't like what 40k is? No problem, there's a bunch of other game systems out there. But that doesn't mean 40k needs to change either.

 

If a new Star Trek series introduced the role of Commissar on the new Enterprise (proper Universe, none of that Mirror Universe stuff), and he summarily executed the Captain for cowardice halfway trough the series, fans would be royallyed off. Or if the proposed Obi Wan film opened with him butchering Jawas for fun. Because regardless of the quality (the new story could be exceedingly well written, acted and presented) this new show wouldn't be Star Trek/Wars anymore.

 

 

Well, it's my army, and I think if all I do is female heads, and all the rest of the bits are GW, even if I get laughed at, I really don't care anymore.

 

The other issue I have with this approach (besides my opposition to the general concept of female Marines), is that this approach always looks awful. No matter the quality of the female heads used, the end result just looks bad and ridiculous, more akin to a bad Photoshop than a 'real' individual. There's more to sexual dimorphism than facial differences, and I don't find the 'the armour covers it' excuse very convincing. Just look at the female Sigmarines, they're clearly different bodies to the men, despite both wearing fully covering plate-style armour.

[Sete]

I have to agree with leif. If Space Marines get females, then I want brothers of battle.

Im in religious crusading armies, and an all female one turns me off (oh my!!!).

 

Deep down it would be another nail on 40k coffin for me.

Call me a misogynistic pig or whatever, but I would rather see females on new Imperial guard kits than SM, where lorewise only males could accept the geneseed.

 

I know the fluff keeps advancing and evolving but lately the quality is going down. I fear that this is actually the path GW is going, and another thing is getting shoehorned into the setting.

 

Primaris and Cawl already took me a great deal of willpower to accept and not go into a nerd rage. Female SM? Its a fluff killing machine.

And don't get me wrong, the most hardcore infantry sargent I had was a hell of a woman. I still have a small crush on her.

Get me a lady commissar mini.

[Gemini]

You do you boo.

 

I'll NEVER field a primaris marine in my army because I hate the idea with the blinding white-hot fury of a thousand sons. It's my army. 

Female marines destroy too much fluff for me to handle, I think Yoyo did a solid enough job for me to not need to add any more than that.

 

If I DID feel a need to put females on the table there's Eldar, Dark Eldar, Harlequins, IG, Chaos Demons, Sisters of Battle, Tau, Inquisition, Assassins and Adeptus Mechanicus as they routinely feature women in most of their fluff (although I have no personal experience regarding the presence of actual GW models for this). 

 

If you remove 'Space Marines' and Custodes the other all male armies are the asexually produced Orks, Imperial Knights (who feature female pilots in the fluff) and the relatively genderless Necrons (although I am unfamiliar enough with their fluff that they MAY still use gender specific pronouns... I just can't attest to it myself). 

 

ANYWAYS... I'd play you, wanna see your models and probably have some questions.

 

At the end of the day It's your army and your little plastic army mans (and womens if you so choose). 

[sbarnby71]

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/aurel-1

 

These are a little pricey, but they do look amazing

 

http://www.statuesqueminiatures.co.uk/p/8774376/sma301-heroic-scale-female-heads.html

 

Some decent female heads here and cheaper than having to buy the Stormcasts

[Krakendoomcool]

I'm hoping you wil be posting your mini's on here when you've got some. I'd be interested to see how they come out. As with a lot of things it's easy to think you might not like something then someone does an awesome job and convinces you.

 

Space Wolf (males) have great hair. Or at the very least a lot of different hair options. Looking at the female heads for you to use. I would recommend Escher ganger heads. Ever since Escher gangers came out with the first edition of Necromunda they have had THE best hairdo's bar none. I think they would be as good a fit to your male counter parts as you could currently find. The heads are smaller though I believe, that could be a problem. They might look like they are dressed in mens clothing.

 

@sbarnby71

those heads are pretty sweet too.

[GrFlur]

I love the idea

 

I also want Pics!!!!

 

(if you have in mind to find  dwarven miniatures to perform as a wolf guard squad... I must say... ¡get out of my head!) 

[Sete]

In regard to your army, whatevs man, its yours, my stance is on official stuff. And yes please share the projects

[PeteySödes]

“It's true you don't see many Space Wolf women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Space Wolf men. And this in turn has given rise to the belief that there are no Fenrisian women, and that they just spring out of holes in the ground!”

 

Maybe it’s the beards.

[BBadger]

“It's true you don't see many Space Wolf women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Space Wolf men. And this in turn has given rise to the belief that there are no Fenrisian women, and that they just spring out of holes in the ground!”

 

Maybe it’s the beards.

 

You jest, but space marines aren't just super human. They're trans humans designed only for war, and all squishy undesirable features are long eliminated. Who's to say a female applicant wouldn't turn out the exact same way were it to be made possible in the fluff? Astartes are more monster than man anyway.

 

As far as "40K should represent today's society" goes, I disagree. The whole point is that 40K is as different to the positive ideals of today's society as possible. That's why it's grim-dark. Last I checked we weren't living in a fascist necrocracy devoid of all hope . (not that I want to make this political)

 

Honestly man, you do you. I'm currently working on 40K Luna Wolves, which is working with the cheesy "lost in the warp" loophole. If you can find a cool, or semi-cool reason for it, do it! "The galaxy is a big place, and whatever happens you will not be missed", gives you a lot of creative license. Just don't expect it to become cannon any time soon.