So daemons or knights?

[Prometheo567]

Hi, my fellow Aspiring Sorcerers.

I am trying to get my old Thousand Sons force (most of my minis are partially or totally metallic) into some kind of fighting shape, so I am looking around for advice.

Currently, and after removing units which can no longer be used in a TS force (my old Chaos Lord, my Tzeentch termicide, my Warp Talons...) I guess I can field a somewhat usable and fluffy batallion. Something like this (I hope the formatting is forum-legal, let me know if I'm wrong)
 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons) [55 PL, 1000pts] ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Exalted Sorcerer on Disc of Tzeentch [8 PL, 141pts]: Force stave, Inferno Bolt Pistol

 

Sorcerer in Terminator Armour [8 PL, 149pts]: Combi-melta, Force axe

 

+ Troops +

 

Rubric Marines [7 PL, 107pts]

. Aspiring Sorcerer: Force sword, Inferno Bolt Pistol

. 4x Rubric Marine w/ Inferno Boltgun: 4x Inferno boltgun

 

Rubric Marines [7 PL, 109pts]

. Aspiring Sorcerer: Force axe, Inferno Bolt Pistol

. 4x Rubric Marine w/ Inferno Boltgun: 4x Inferno boltgun

 

Rubric Marines [7 PL, 109pts]

. Aspiring Sorcerer: Force axe, Inferno Bolt Pistol

. 4x Rubric Marine w/ Inferno Boltgun: 4x Inferno boltgun

 

+ Elites +

 

Helbrute [7 PL, 147pts]: Missile launcher, Twin lascannon

 

Scarab Occult Terminators [11 PL, 238pts]: Hellfyre Missile Rack

. Scarab Occult Sorcerer: Force stave, Inferno Combi-bolter

. 3x Terminator: 3x Inferno Combi-bolter, 3x Powersword

. Terminator w/ Heavy Weapon: Power sword, Soulreaper cannon

 

++ Total: [55 PL, 1000pts] ++

(Yeah, I'm aware that I should ditch the ES and bring Ahriman but I loathe using named characters)

I am unsure where to go to now. I have some other TS-legal minis: several Exalted sorcerers and foot Sorcerers, a converted winged Daemon Prince, around 4 more bolter wielding rubrics, around 40 assorted cultists, 2 converted Rhinos and a Tomb-Kings styled Defiler.

On the other hand, it probably makes more sense, given that I'm not using goatmen (neither do I plan to), to diversify into the natural allies: I don't feel like Chaos Space Marines can offer me anything that I don't have already, so the options are a Tzeentch Daemon Batallion or a Renegade Knight.

About Tzeentch Daemons, I have a lot of horrors (42 pinkies, 13 blues and 10 brimstones), heralds, flamers, screamers, a burning chariot... These guys can also offer me something I lack: a horde component, anti-horde fire, DS denial... Sounds like a natural match.

On the other hand, my Knight is magnetized and can be fielded like a Paladin, an Errant or a Gallant. All three of them can act like a fire magnet and provide me with anti-tank. I don't know if i need the second but I could certainly use the first!


What would be your advice to go to 1500 or 1850 then? Daemons or Knights? If you have criticism about the TS core batallion please let me know.

Thank you everyone

[sneakybamsen]

I think I'd keep it in a tzeentch theme, so I'd stick some demons in there. Flamers, Screamers and Horrors. I'd also consider getting some spawn (3-5 man unit to use with the stratagem we have for them, makes them sweet. I'd also consider expanding the sorcerors if possible. Our casting does us a lot of good. Perhaps consider getting options for fielding a RuBrick (20 man rubric squad that you buff to the moon and just let loose on the table). Still fluffy, does work and should be good fun.

 

I am not sure about the renegade knights, but at least they made an index for them, which is a good thing. Strats and traits are missing, but now things should be clearer than they were. You're right that a knight can act as a fire magnet, but it's to me the wrong reason to get one. Numerous armies can wreak enough damage to a knight in a turn to severely neuter it if not outright destroy it (doesn't even have to be competitive play to do that) and for the points, it's a big investment. When a knight does run amok, it does hurt a lot, though, and they can be fun to play with. The last one I brought was my Castigator with my DA at a local tournament.

[Prometheo567]

Thank you for the reply. I guess it makes a lot of sense.

 

What would you remove in order to make room for that stuff? Anything seems particularly superfluous to you?

[The Yncarne]

I don’t use daemons or knights now and I only play with painted models so take that into account.

 

If your models are unpainted, I’d look at it from that perspective; do I want to paint the knight or a bunch of infantry first? Then I’d play with what I finished painting first until I got the other done.

 

For me, I think daemons would be the better option game wise as I’m currently running all infantry and having a knight would negate my current strength. OTOH, a knight will attract a lot of attention, but I don’t think 1,000 points of Sons can do much on their own.

 

So if I wanted to win, I’d prioritize the daemons. I dread painting dozens of models, so painting the Knight would be more enjoyable and quicker to field.

 

Guess I didn’t help much, huh?

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I think if your gonna to take knights you should look at the new Armigiers both are pretty good with T-Sons, the thermal spear + CC is good anti- tank thats mobile (and much cheaper than before), and the autocannon one just has a lot of dakka. But I think one knight, isn't as good as daemons because you are very limited in armor so they can concentrate on it fairly easily.

[Kite Senet]

I would concur with sneakybamsen and suggest building a RuBrick. Even collecting the Rubricae into one 15-man unit (and replacing the other sorcerers with the spare rubrics you mentioned) would, I think, help with the lack of a horde unit to capitalize on with psychic and stratagem buffs; then fill in the detachment with Cultist units, I suppose? I'd pick goats here, but cultists should be fine. (Though one could argue the Cultists themselves would work as a horde well enough on their own.)

 

Consider playing the Exalted Sorcerer on Disc as a plain old Sorcerer on Disc to save a few points, unless you have good reason to prefer the ES's slightly better statline. I found it wasn't better in ways that mattered to me, so I'm planning on playing two of the three Exalted Sorcerers from my box as normal Sorcerers myself.

 

I'm not too keen on adding Knights to a 1000 point list; if so I'd go with Armigers competing for the Helbrute's spot in the list, since otherwise I'd be concerned there'd be some redundancy in purpose there; but I'm afraid a full Knight would devour way too large a proportion of your points in a small game. It might be worth giving it a try though. I'm even less keen on dividing a 1000 point list into two detachments, though, so I'm not terribly sure I like the Daemons option much either. Honestly, I think the best option is to stay within the Thousand Sons Codex, and save the Knights and extra detachment Daemons for larger games; it's probably not what you wanted to hear, but that's just my thoughts on the matter.

[Quixus]

If you run daemons put them in their own detachment, otherwise you lose Brotherhood of Sorcerers and Loci. You could even use the RuBrick in a patrol detachment and get hordes of horrors (and two Daemon HQs) for the command points.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

Hi, my fellow Aspiring Sorcerers.

 

I am trying to get my old Thousand Sons force (most of my minis are partially or totally metallic) into some kind of fighting shape, so I am looking around for advice.

 

Currently, and after removing units which can no longer be used in a TS force (my old Chaos Lord, my Tzeentch termicide, my Warp Talons...) I guess I can field a somewhat usable and fluffy batallion. Something like this (I hope the formatting is forum-legal, let me know if I'm wrong)

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons) [55 PL, 1000pts] ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Exalted Sorcerer on Disc of Tzeentch [8 PL, 141pts]: Force stave, Inferno Bolt Pistol

 

Sorcerer in Terminator Armour [8 PL, 149pts]: Combi-melta, Force axe

 

+ Troops +

 

Rubric Marines [7 PL, 107pts]

. Aspiring Sorcerer: Force sword, Inferno Bolt Pistol

. 4x Rubric Marine w/ Inferno Boltgun: 4x Inferno boltgun

 

Rubric Marines [7 PL, 109pts]

. Aspiring Sorcerer: Force axe, Inferno Bolt Pistol

. 4x Rubric Marine w/ Inferno Boltgun: 4x Inferno boltgun

 

Rubric Marines [7 PL, 109pts]

. Aspiring Sorcerer: Force axe, Inferno Bolt Pistol

. 4x Rubric Marine w/ Inferno Boltgun: 4x Inferno boltgun

 

+ Elites +

 

Helbrute [7 PL, 147pts]: Missile launcher, Twin lascannon

 

Scarab Occult Terminators [11 PL, 238pts]: Hellfyre Missile Rack

. Scarab Occult Sorcerer: Force stave, Inferno Combi-bolter

. 3x Terminator: 3x Inferno Combi-bolter, 3x Powersword

. Terminator w/ Heavy Weapon: Power sword, Soulreaper cannon

 

++ Total: [55 PL, 1000pts] ++

 

(Yeah, I'm aware that I should ditch the ES and bring Ahriman but I loathe using named characters)

 

I am unsure where to go to now. I have some other TS-legal minis: several Exalted sorcerers and foot Sorcerers, a converted winged Daemon Prince, around 4 more bolter wielding rubrics, around 40 assorted cultists, 2 converted Rhinos and a Tomb-Kings styled Defiler.

 

On the other hand, it probably makes more sense, given that I'm not using goatmen (neither do I plan to), to diversify into the natural allies: I don't feel like Chaos Space Marines can offer me anything that I don't have already, so the options are a Tzeentch Daemon Batallion or a Renegade Knight.

 

About Tzeentch Daemons, I have a lot of horrors (42 pinkies, 13 blues and 10 brimstones), heralds, flamers, screamers, a burning chariot... These guys can also offer me something I lack: a horde component, anti-horde fire, DS denial... Sounds like a natural match.

 

On the other hand, my Knight is magnetized and can be fielded like a Paladin, an Errant or a Gallant. All three of them can act like a fire magnet and provide me with anti-tank. I don't know if i need the second but I could certainly use the first!

 

 

What would be your advice to go to 1500 or 1850 then? Daemons or Knights? If you have criticism about the TS core batallion please let me know.

 

Thank you everyone

 

What others have said about the RuBrick is the truth. It's a beast. Been using it since before we had a codex and it worked even then.

 

As for Renegade Knights, they are not best as fire magnets in the traditional sense of running in and disrupting everything. Their unique ability to mount two of the same ranged weapon makes them best at fire support, though there is a place for the other models (they're just not the best at exploiting the faction's unique strength).

 

I would suggest 2x Rapid Fire Battle Cannon, plus Ironstorm, plus 3 Heavy Stubbers.

 

That will throw so much nigh-inescapable pain downrange at 72 inches that the opponent will have to dedicate significant resources to countering or avoiding it, allowing your RuBrick to rampage as it will. Spend for Trail of Destruction every turn to drive that point home. The two units together will make up about 950 points. Fill the rest with Daemon Princes, Horrors, and a small number of additional "hard" units (Terminators, Helbrutes, etc.). I'd probably avoid running more than 1 Knight unless you wanted to go with 2 or 3 CC Knights (basically Gallants) to shatter the front line with marching TS infantry to follow.

 

Alternately, you can forget the Knights, run the Ru-Brick, then 2x5 Rubrics in one Rhino to grab objectives, maybe with some Warpflamers, and then focus the rest on Daemon Princes, Daemon Engines, and maybe an additional Daemon detachment (for synergy benefits, I'd suggest Daemon Engines over tanks in this case). I personally prefer Horrors to Cultists, but I can see why some folks use the latter.