Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Kill Team Tactica - Adeptus Astartes

Adeptus Astartes Tactica Kill Team game

  • Please log in to reply
237 replies to this topic

#226
sfPanzer

sfPanzer

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 12,763 posts
  • Location:Germany
  • Faction: Knights of Baal

People always consider that in a vacuum.  If you don't need the AGL guy up close, why wouldn't you give him a powerful long range rifle?  He may not always be the one you want using a grenade - one of your fighters up close may want to toss one into an area they're moving into, in which case the guy with that Stalker can still do some good while shooting.

 

If you're going to give him some other gun that has to shoot at half range to avoid penalties, why bother with an AGL at all when you'll probably be close enough to just throw a grenade?

 

I did consider that but the Bolt rifle is only 6" less than the Stalker bolt rifle and gives you a way bigger advantage at 15" or less while still letting you move&shoot without penalty. It's simply the more versatile weapon, especially on such a small board.

Also it's rather unlikely that you want to use the grenade with someone without AGL since at that range you're also in short range for any of your Bolter weapons while the AGL carry with his 30" range often is the one last ending up in short range his Bolter weapons (even with the Stalker bolt rifle).


  • Disruptor_fe404 likes this

Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

gallery_62972_10568_7658.jpgbFk9acX.pnggallery_62972_14467_40478.pnggallery_62972_10568_4118.jpg


#227
Mutanthybrid

Mutanthybrid

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 12 posts
If you choose to run a primaris only KT then your best weapon for taking care of those better saves at range is going to be the stalker pattern.
As knight stated above the AGL doesn't always need to be used as other guys may be closer. If you're using Reivers then their grenades offer some really tactical options and will potentially be used in lieu of the AGL.
  • Knight of Lupus likes this

#228
thewarriorhunter

thewarriorhunter

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 955 posts
  • Location:Southern Arizona
  • Faction: Raven Guard

I'm building a Primaris only KT. I have two AGLs for some flexibility on where they can be used. One has the stalker because He'll be hanging back, the other has the bolt rifle since he'll probably be moving and up a little closer so I want him to be able to have rapid fire.


  • Knight of Lupus likes this

#229
Knight of Lupus

Knight of Lupus

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,138 posts
  • Location:I come from the land of the ice and snow...
  • Faction: Space Wolves, Custodes

I did consider that but the Bolt rifle is only 6" less than the Stalker bolt rifle and gives you a way bigger advantage at 15" or less while still letting you move&shoot without penalty. It's simply the more versatile weapon, especially on such a small board.

Also it's rather unlikely that you want to use the grenade with someone without AGL since at that range you're also in short range for any of your Bolter weapons while the AGL carry with his 30" range often is the one last ending up in short range his Bolter weapons (even with the Stalker bolt rifle).

 

6" shorter range means a -1 at a lot closer range than it does for the Stalker.  And you may have completely missed my point about the grenades, but it seems like you're operating on the premise that the guy with the AGL can target the entire board at any time.  Sometimes your close-up troops may need to throw a grenade - and if the only guys that are ever doing that are the one or two troopers with an AGL, what's the point of everyone having grenades?  

 

You have to ask yourself what the role is of the guy with an AGL.  Is he a shock trooper, designed for close assault?  Probably not - why would you need a 30" range for his grenades?  Clearly the AGL is a tool designed to lob grenades from a distance - and since it has no range penalty, it makes no difference at all if it's from 12" or 30".  That was my point.  Considering that, might as well put it on the guy who can do something useful in the event that someone else might want to use a grenade (you know, like your Reivers when they want to shock the troops they're assaulting?)


"Heed not the whispers in the gloom, or the rantings of madmen, for they will attempt to beguile you.
Cleave to your training, for heretics speak naught but lies and damnations.  Let thy weapons speak in answer."

#230
sfPanzer

sfPanzer

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 12,763 posts
  • Location:Germany
  • Faction: Knights of Baal

 

I did consider that but the Bolt rifle is only 6" less than the Stalker bolt rifle and gives you a way bigger advantage at 15" or less while still letting you move&shoot without penalty. It's simply the more versatile weapon, especially on such a small board.

Also it's rather unlikely that you want to use the grenade with someone without AGL since at that range you're also in short range for any of your Bolter weapons while the AGL carry with his 30" range often is the one last ending up in short range his Bolter weapons (even with the Stalker bolt rifle).

 

6" shorter range means a -1 at a lot closer range than it does for the Stalker.  And you may have completely missed my point about the grenades, but it seems like you're operating on the premise that the guy with the AGL can target the entire board at any time.  Sometimes your close-up troops may need to throw a grenade - and if the only guys that are ever doing that are the one or two troopers with an AGL, what's the point of everyone having grenades?  

 

You have to ask yourself what the role is of the guy with an AGL.  Is he a shock trooper, designed for close assault?  Probably not - why would you need a 30" range for his grenades?  Clearly the AGL is a tool designed to lob grenades from a distance - and since it has no range penalty, it makes no difference at all if it's from 12" or 30".  That was my point.  Considering that, might as well put it on the guy who can do something useful in the event that someone else might want to use a grenade (you know, like your Reivers when they want to shock the troops they're assaulting?)

 

 

"a lot closer range" is pretty exagerated, The difference is exactly 3" for short range between both weapons and in Kill Team you get really quickly within the 15" required for the Bolt rifle. At that point you have two AP-1 shots vs one AP-2 shot. I for one know what I prefer.

And no I didn't miss that point of yours, I just prefer to keep my team more or less together so they can support eachother and the AGL is mobile enough to always have LoS to at least something so if I get this close enough to throw a grenade to the enemy with one of my front line guys then that front line guy is also within short range for his Bolt rifle etc. and doesn't really need to throw a grenade anyway while the AGL guy can still shoot with the superior AGL from further away without having to rely on the worse Stalker bolt rifle. He doesn't have to see everything, it's enough if he can see ANYTHING because at short range Bolt rifles aren't that much worse than Krak or Frag grenades while at long range the AGL is simply better than any basic Bolter variant.

 

I know my AGL carrys role pretty well. He's my long range fire support and for long range he uses the AGL so he wouldn't use the Stalker bolt rifle anyway. In the unlikely case he can't use his AGL the Bolt rifle is still good enough at long range at 30" while being better than the Stalker at short range which is barely shorter at 3" difference. Really, it never happened in any of my games so far except for that one time where he had a bunch of to hit penalties and I prefered having more shots with the Bolt rifle over the better strength and damage of the Krak grenade and the unreliable amount of shots of the Frag grenade with worse S and AP.

 

Your whole point seems to be about what you do when :cuss hits the fan and you assuming the Bolt rifle being not long range capable. Don't forget that the Bolt rifle is almost the same as the Stalker bolt rifle. 30" on such a tiny board is huge and since you can move&shoot without penalty you can position yourself much better. The only real drawback is having AP-1 instead of AP-2 but on the other hand you get an additional shot at short range which you end up in pretty much every game anyway at 15" unless it's some sniper fest where everybody tries to stay as far away as possible (what are objectives anyway lol).

Literally the only real reason to take a Stalker bolt rifle is the Masterful Marksmanship Tactic and only if you don't move because otherwise it doesn't give you an advantage at all and only serves to balance out one of the disadvantages. Hence why I'll put one Stalker botl rifle guy in my Primaris list on top of my AGL specialist. What you could do of course is giving the Stalker botl rfile guy an AGL as well if you have the point but he shouldn't be the first guy to fall back on to use the AGL, that's what you have the actual AGL carry for.


Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

gallery_62972_10568_7658.jpgbFk9acX.pnggallery_62972_14467_40478.pnggallery_62972_10568_4118.jpg


#231
Fobzter

Fobzter

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 69 posts
  • Location:Porvoo, Finland
I only field an intercessor gunner as comms specialist and it has stalker bolt rifle and AGL. In the rare case of shock grenade from my reiver sergeant I like the -2 ap and the option for the masterful marksman.. My comms hangs back with my scout ML&cloak, HB demolitions specialist and my tactical sergeant with auspex & grav pistol. They form my long range Gunners while my reiver and intercessor sergeants meet the enemy in duel. Have to say that reiver sergeant should have an option to take a power sword, those 4 attacks S4 ap 0 have done literally nothing in my games, but 2 wounds is the biggest reason I haven't ditched him.. yet..

#232
Mutanthybrid

Mutanthybrid

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 12 posts

I only field an intercessor gunner as comms specialist and it has stalker bolt rifle and AGL. In the rare case of shock grenade from my reiver sergeant I like the -2 ap and the option for the masterful marksman.. My comms hangs back with my scout ML&cloak, HB demolitions specialist and my tactical sergeant with auspex & grav pistol. They form my long range Gunners while my reiver and intercessor sergeants meet the enemy in duel. Have to say that reiver sergeant should have an option to take a power sword, those 4 attacks S4 ap 0 have done literally nothing in my games, but 2 wounds is the biggest reason I haven't ditched him.. yet..


I have the same problem with the reiver sergeant. 2 turns of combat against a grey Knight and I didn't even scratch him thanks to the 3+ save even though I forced 5 wounds over two combats. To make matters worse he killed me over two turns with his psychic power.
The intercessor sergeant however is the true saviour with the power sword and 3 attacks. I intend to run both together as a sort of double team in future to make use of the shock grenades and then power sword attacks up close.

#233
Disruptor_fe404

Disruptor_fe404

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 3,360 posts
  • Location:Auckland, New Zealand
  • Faction: Sentinels

Astartes teams should absolutely be taking Combat-cessor sergeants against other power armoured teams. Assuming you're expecting any Fight phase action at all, that is.


The Sentinels
Chapter Command ([1]), Throne Company, Grail Company ([1], [2], [3]), Lance Company, Sword Company ([1], [2]), Dagger Company, Shield Company, Sigil Company, Tome Company, Storm Company, Shadow Company.


Current projects: Lance Company - New biker!


#234
Disruptor_fe404

Disruptor_fe404

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 3,360 posts
  • Location:Auckland, New Zealand
  • Faction: Sentinels

What are everyone's thoughts regarding wider access to the auspex as well as the Medic specialty now being available to us? And the auxilliary grenade launcher nerf?


The Sentinels
Chapter Command ([1]), Throne Company, Grail Company ([1], [2], [3]), Lance Company, Sword Company ([1], [2]), Dagger Company, Shield Company, Sigil Company, Tome Company, Storm Company, Shadow Company.


Current projects: Lance Company - New biker!


#235
sfPanzer

sfPanzer

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 12,763 posts
  • Location:Germany
  • Faction: Knights of Baal

I'm extremely pleased with it. That's something that should've been there all along (obviously since it's an Errata and not a supplement). I'm thinking about buying an apothecary to use as medic even.

 

The AGL nerf is sad but was to be expected I guess.


Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

gallery_62972_10568_7658.jpgbFk9acX.pnggallery_62972_14467_40478.pnggallery_62972_10568_4118.jpg


#236
UnkyHamHam

UnkyHamHam

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 377 posts
  • Location:My Fortress Monastery in Iowa
  • Faction: The Emperor's Blades
I played my first game on Friday. Against Death Guard with 6 plague marines.

I used 6 marines:
Intercessor Sarge w/ BR and PS - Leader
Tac Sarge w/ auspex and PP - Comms
Scout w/ sniper & cloak - Demo
Tac Gunner w/ ML - Heavy
Reiver Sarge w/ Carbine, blade, chute, and grapnel
Intercessor Gunner w/ BR and AGL

As this was my first time playing I can attribute much here to my lack of xp and many mistakes. But how do people with marine KTs deal with plague marines? They are sooo tough!

The Emperor Protects.

 

"Alpha within, Alpha without."  "The Flesh is Alpha."  "Ave Alpharius Nox."


#237
JasonfromFW

JasonfromFW

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 48 posts
  • Location:France
  • Faction: Blood Sons

I usually go with something like:

 

Intercessor Sarge w/ BR, PS, auspex - Leader

Tac Sarge w/ PF and PP

Tac Gunner w/ HB - Heavy

Tac Gunner w/ PG - Sniper

Scout w/ sniper & cloak - Comms

Scout gunner w/ ML & cloak

 

Shoot the hell out of them with ML / PG / HB mortal wounds with the help of Comms / auspex.

When they're too close, tac sarge with PF / PP and Intercessor sarge usually are enough.


  • Man of Iron likes this


#238
Mechanicus_Adept

Mechanicus_Adept

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 327 posts
  • Faction: codex marines
@unkyHamHam

the agl will not help against nurgle. the save and disgusting resilient just make it tough.
the reliable PG and ML against nurgle will help more in your KT games

Edited by Mechanicus_Adept, 10 November 2018 - 02:40 PM.

  • UnkyHamHam likes this

New edition. New strategies. 8th edition.






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Adeptus Astartes, Tactica, Kill Team game

2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users