Kill Team Tactica: Adeptus Astartes

[Panzer]

People always consider that in a vacuum.  If you don't need the AGL guy up close, why wouldn't you give him a powerful long range rifle?  He may not always be the one you want using a grenade - one of your fighters up close may want to toss one into an area they're moving into, in which case the guy with that Stalker can still do some good while shooting.

 

If you're going to give him some other gun that has to shoot at half range to avoid penalties, why bother with an AGL at all when you'll probably be close enough to just throw a grenade?

 

I did consider that but the Bolt rifle is only 6" less than the Stalker bolt rifle and gives you a way bigger advantage at 15" or less while still letting you move&shoot without penalty. It's simply the more versatile weapon, especially on such a small board.

Also it's rather unlikely that you want to use the grenade with someone without AGL since at that range you're also in short range for any of your Bolter weapons while the AGL carry with his 30" range often is the one last ending up in short range his Bolter weapons (even with the Stalker bolt rifle).

[Mutanthybrid]

If you choose to run a primaris only KT then your best weapon for taking care of those better saves at range is going to be the stalker pattern.

As knight stated above the AGL doesn't always need to be used as other guys may be closer. If you're using Reivers then their grenades offer some really tactical options and will potentially be used in lieu of the AGL.

[thewarriorhunter]

I'm building a Primaris only KT. I have two AGLs for some flexibility on where they can be used. One has the stalker because He'll be hanging back, the other has the bolt rifle since he'll probably be moving and up a little closer so I want him to be able to have rapid fire.

[Stoic Raptor]

I did consider that but the Bolt rifle is only 6" less than the Stalker bolt rifle and gives you a way bigger advantage at 15" or less while still letting you move&shoot without penalty. It's simply the more versatile weapon, especially on such a small board.

Also it's rather unlikely that you want to use the grenade with someone without AGL since at that range you're also in short range for any of your Bolter weapons while the AGL carry with his 30" range often is the one last ending up in short range his Bolter weapons (even with the Stalker bolt rifle).

 

6" shorter range means a -1 at a lot closer range than it does for the Stalker.  And you may have completely missed my point about the grenades, but it seems like you're operating on the premise that the guy with the AGL can target the entire board at any time.  Sometimes your close-up troops may need to throw a grenade - and if the only guys that are ever doing that are the one or two troopers with an AGL, what's the point of everyone having grenades?  

 

You have to ask yourself what the role is of the guy with an AGL.  Is he a shock trooper, designed for close assault?  Probably not - why would you need a 30" range for his grenades?  Clearly the AGL is a tool designed to lob grenades from a distance - and since it has no range penalty, it makes no difference at all if it's from 12" or 30".  That was my point.  Considering that, might as well put it on the guy who can do something useful in the event that someone else might want to use a grenade (you know, like your Reivers when they want to shock the troops they're assaulting?)

[Panzer]

 

I did consider that but the Bolt rifle is only 6" less than the Stalker bolt rifle and gives you a way bigger advantage at 15" or less while still letting you move&shoot without penalty. It's simply the more versatile weapon, especially on such a small board.

Also it's rather unlikely that you want to use the grenade with someone without AGL since at that range you're also in short range for any of your Bolter weapons while the AGL carry with his 30" range often is the one last ending up in short range his Bolter weapons (even with the Stalker bolt rifle).

 

6" shorter range means a -1 at a lot closer range than it does for the Stalker.  And you may have completely missed my point about the grenades, but it seems like you're operating on the premise that the guy with the AGL can target the entire board at any time.  Sometimes your close-up troops may need to throw a grenade - and if the only guys that are ever doing that are the one or two troopers with an AGL, what's the point of everyone having grenades?  

 

You have to ask yourself what the role is of the guy with an AGL.  Is he a shock trooper, designed for close assault?  Probably not - why would you need a 30" range for his grenades?  Clearly the AGL is a tool designed to lob grenades from a distance - and since it has no range penalty, it makes no difference at all if it's from 12" or 30".  That was my point.  Considering that, might as well put it on the guy who can do something useful in the event that someone else might want to use a grenade (you know, like your Reivers when they want to shock the troops they're assaulting?)

 

 

"a lot closer range" is pretty exagerated, The difference is exactly 3" for short range between both weapons and in Kill Team you get really quickly within the 15" required for the Bolt rifle. At that point you have two AP-1 shots vs one AP-2 shot. I for one know what I prefer.

And no I didn't miss that point of yours, I just prefer to keep my team more or less together so they can support eachother and the AGL is mobile enough to always have LoS to at least something so if I get this close enough to throw a grenade to the enemy with one of my front line guys then that front line guy is also within short range for his Bolt rifle etc. and doesn't really need to throw a grenade anyway while the AGL guy can still shoot with the superior AGL from further away without having to rely on the worse Stalker bolt rifle. He doesn't have to see everything, it's enough if he can see ANYTHING because at short range Bolt rifles aren't that much worse than Krak or Frag grenades while at long range the AGL is simply better than any basic Bolter variant.

 

I know my AGL carrys role pretty well. He's my long range fire support and for long range he uses the AGL so he wouldn't use the Stalker bolt rifle anyway. In the unlikely case he can't use his AGL the Bolt rifle is still good enough at long range at 30" while being better than the Stalker at short range which is barely shorter at 3" difference. Really, it never happened in any of my games so far except for that one time where he had a bunch of to hit penalties and I prefered having more shots with the Bolt rifle over the better strength and damage of the Krak grenade and the unreliable amount of shots of the Frag grenade with worse S and AP.

 

Your whole point seems to be about what you do when :cuss hits the fan and you assuming the Bolt rifle being not long range capable. Don't forget that the Bolt rifle is almost the same as the Stalker bolt rifle. 30" on such a tiny board is huge and since you can move&shoot without penalty you can position yourself much better. The only real drawback is having AP-1 instead of AP-2 but on the other hand you get an additional shot at short range which you end up in pretty much every game anyway at 15" unless it's some sniper fest where everybody tries to stay as far away as possible (what are objectives anyway lol).

Literally the only real reason to take a Stalker bolt rifle is the Masterful Marksmanship Tactic and only if you don't move because otherwise it doesn't give you an advantage at all and only serves to balance out one of the disadvantages. Hence why I'll put one Stalker botl rifle guy in my Primaris list on top of my AGL specialist. What you could do of course is giving the Stalker botl rfile guy an AGL as well if you have the point but he shouldn't be the first guy to fall back on to use the AGL, that's what you have the actual AGL carry for.

[Fobzter]

I only field an intercessor gunner as comms specialist and it has stalker bolt rifle and AGL. In the rare case of shock grenade from my reiver sergeant I like the -2 ap and the option for the masterful marksman.. My comms hangs back with my scout ML&cloak, HB demolitions specialist and my tactical sergeant with auspex & grav pistol. They form my long range Gunners while my reiver and intercessor sergeants meet the enemy in duel. Have to say that reiver sergeant should have an option to take a power sword, those 4 attacks S4 ap 0 have done literally nothing in my games, but 2 wounds is the biggest reason I haven't ditched him.. yet..

[Mutanthybrid]

I only field an intercessor gunner as comms specialist and it has stalker bolt rifle and AGL. In the rare case of shock grenade from my reiver sergeant I like the -2 ap and the option for the masterful marksman.. My comms hangs back with my scout ML&cloak, HB demolitions specialist and my tactical sergeant with auspex & grav pistol. They form my long range Gunners while my reiver and intercessor sergeants meet the enemy in duel. Have to say that reiver sergeant should have an option to take a power sword, those 4 attacks S4 ap 0 have done literally nothing in my games, but 2 wounds is the biggest reason I haven't ditched him.. yet..

I have the same problem with the reiver sergeant. 2 turns of combat against a grey Knight and I didn't even scratch him thanks to the 3+ save even though I forced 5 wounds over two combats. To make matters worse he killed me over two turns with his psychic power.

The intercessor sergeant however is the true saviour with the power sword and 3 attacks. I intend to run both together as a sort of double team in future to make use of the shock grenades and then power sword attacks up close.

[Disruptor_fe404]

Astartes teams should absolutely be taking Combat-cessor sergeants against other power armoured teams. Assuming you're expecting any Fight phase action at all, that is.

[Disruptor_fe404]

What are everyone's thoughts regarding wider access to the auspex as well as the Medic specialty now being available to us? And the auxilliary grenade launcher nerf?

[Panzer]

I'm extremely pleased with it. That's something that should've been there all along (obviously since it's an Errata and not a supplement). I'm thinking about buying an apothecary to use as medic even.

 

The AGL nerf is sad but was to be expected I guess.

[UnkyHamHam]

I played my first game on Friday. Against Death Guard with 6 plague marines.

 

I used 6 marines:

Intercessor Sarge w/ BR and PS - Leader

Tac Sarge w/ auspex and PP - Comms

Scout w/ sniper & cloak - Demo

Tac Gunner w/ ML - Heavy

Reiver Sarge w/ Carbine, blade, chute, and grapnel

Intercessor Gunner w/ BR and AGL

 

As this was my first time playing I can attribute much here to my lack of xp and many mistakes. But how do people with marine KTs deal with plague marines? They are sooo tough!

[JasonfromFW]

I usually go with something like:

 

Intercessor Sarge w/ BR, PS, auspex - Leader

Tac Sarge w/ PF and PP

Tac Gunner w/ HB - Heavy

Tac Gunner w/ PG - Sniper

Scout w/ sniper & cloak - Comms

Scout gunner w/ ML & cloak

 

Shoot the hell out of them with ML / PG / HB mortal wounds with the help of Comms / auspex.

When they're too close, tac sarge with PF / PP and Intercessor sarge usually are enough.

[Brother Navaer Solaq]

@unkyHamHam

 

the agl will not help against nurgle. the save and disgusting resilient just make it tough.

the reliable PG and ML against nurgle will help more in your KT games

Edited November 10, 2018 by Mechanicus_Adept

[UnkyHamHam]

@unkyHamHam

 

the agl will not help against nurgle. the save and disgusting resilient just make it tough.

the reliable PG and ML against nurgle will help more in your KT games

Just got stomped and wiped to the man again by my friend's Plague Marines. I managed to only kill his pox walkers.

 

He won initiative and focused down my plasma gun and missile launcher right away. Then i had more or less just Intercessors and my Reiver Sarge. Which they could do absolutely nothing against him. Reiver with ALL the attacks and strats stacked on, STILL could not break a single plague marine.

 

I think I'm going to have to bring Plasma/Combi-Plasma and 3 MLs just to have a shot at beating him. But it feels like power gaming :(

[Brother Navaer Solaq]

@unkyhamham, ouch,

 

it seems you need more bodies to absorb loss. bringing all ML might help, but having a dedicated cc beast (other than Reiver) will also help. Reivers are terrible against MEQ as they do not cause any AP.

 

What type of mission were you playing?

 

If you find it tough to beat the nurgle marines then avoid going against them and concentrate on objective of mission. Throw in some expendable fire teams to distract the plague marines as you concentrate on the objective of the mission.

[InAction]

Recently got a hold of the core manual and am looking to jump back into 40K with a kill team focused on a custom chapter of marines, but I'm not certain how to go about it. Specifically, how I should go about making a team that reflects my chapter's unique fluff, (tldr; cowboy marines). From where I stand I think that ought to mean a team utilizing hit-and-run tactics and those I've asked around have suggested utilizing auto rifles and Reivers, but I'd appreciate getting thoughts from people here on the forums.

[Berzul]

Hey guys.

 

Ive been looking for a new team configuration to change my usual plas a and missiles focused set up a bit.

 

Anyone have tried something like:

 

Scout Sgt w/Bolter, Leader

 

Tactical Marine w/Bolter, Medic lv3 (Field Medic, Trauma Specialist)

Tactical Sergeant w/Combi Grav, Sniper lv2 (Assassin)

Tactical Gunner w/Grav Gun, Veteran lv2 (Practiced)

 

Scout Fire Team of 3 Scouts w/Bolters

 

The idea is to pack the scouts together to pick at lighter targets while providing cover to the Sergeant.

 

Then, move the three specialists together. Their guns should hurt most anything at a 3+, with rerrolls on wound rolls for both gunner and sergeant. The medic gives them a FnP6+ and reduces chances of them getting take. Out of action, while remaining in cover himself behind the other specialists.

 

I wonder if this could be a viable team.

[Tordeck]

Unless your meta actually plays open play the only way to get that team would be via campaign. Matched play (which every pick up game I've ever played has been) maxes lvl for Specialists at 1.

[Berzul]

Oh yeah, I should have clarified that we do. Sorry!

[kravi]

This is my preferred list, though usually I try (and don't always succeed) to focus on rosters, and customize each list depending on the scenario and opponent. Most of my lists end up being a variant of this (one way or another) if I'm going up against MEQs. If I'm going against hordes, I'll probably drop the plasma and one of the missiles, and throw down some more bolters (yay bodies). I love sniper on the plasma for the rerolling of 1s in particular. Pretty safe to overcharge that way.

 

+ Leader +

 

Intercessor Sergeant: Bolt rifle, Leader, Power sword

 

+ Specialists +

 

Reiver Sergeant: Bolt carbine, Combat knife, Veteran

 

Tactical Marine Gunner: Plasma gun, Sniper

 

Tactical Marine Gunner: Demolitions, Missile launcher

 

+ Non-specialists +

 

Scout Gunner: Camo Cloak, Missile launcher

 

Scout Gunner: Heavy bolter

Edited May 3, 2019 by kravi

[Othniel's Blade]

I'll share my list- it has been holding its own quite well recently

 

+ Leader +

 

Intercessor Sergeant: Leader, Bolt, pistol Power sword

 

+ Specialists +

 

Intercessor: Comms, Bolt Rifle, Auspex

 

 

Scout Gunner: Heavy, Heavy bolter

 

Scout: Sniper, Sniper rifle, Camo cloak

 

+ Non-specialists +

 

Intercessor: Bolt Rifle

 

Intercessor: Bolt Rifle

 

Scout: Bolter

 

 

I might try switching out the sniper as he's been little more than a deterrent in the last few games with only 1 shot vs everyone else in the team typically.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Othniel's Blade

[Dosjetka]

I'm assuming you don't play using the Matched Play rules since you have 4 specialists?

[thewarriorhunter]

I've been running an all-Primaris list. It hurts not having a Heavy Bolter but I am trying my best to make it work since I'm making my own chapter.

 

 

+ Leader +

 

Reiver Sergeant: Bolt carbine, Combat knife, Leader

 

+ Specialists +

 

Intercessor: Auspex, Bolt rifle, Comms

 

Intercessor Gunner: Bolt rifle, Demolitions

 

Intercessor Sergeant: Auto bolt rifle, Power sword, Combat

 

+ Non-specialists +

 

Intercessor: Bolt rifle

 

Reiver: Bolt carbine

 

++ Total: [98pts] ++

 

I can add/remove Grapnel Launcher's to my Reivers as I need too. Not having them actually won me a match last week. We tied for points so the list with the lower force (points) won. My opponent was at an even 100 and I was at 98 so I took the victory.

 

I tend to run my demo and comms together. The comms ability combined with the auspex lets my demo specialist hit and wound on 2's against obscured targets. It gives me a higher str shot if I need it or if we're in range I can opt for rapid fire. My combat sgt has the assault rifle so he can advance and fire to get into charge range. The power sword is the only way to get any AP modified CC attacks. When he does get into combat he does pretty well, but getting him there has been a challenge.

 

The rest is pretty straightforward. 6 models is rough but the 2W definitely help them have some survivability on the field. Really the one trick my list has is the comms/demo combo and I hope I can out maneuver/strategize my opponent.

[Disruptor_fe404]

So, as a fan of 'slippery'/evasive Leaders, I'm really looking forward to Elites.

 

Why? Eliminator Sergeants and Suppressor Sergeants. While they will both cost double what a Scout Sergeant with camo cloak does, they also both have two Wounds with a 3+ save and still bring other options to the table which I'm keen to try out.

[Othniel's Blade]

I'm assuming you don't play using the Matched Play rules since you have 4 specialists?

Post edited. I copied and edited a kravi's post on here to show my list and left an extra guy.