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Kill Team Specialisms and lists

Kill Team game

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#1
Brother Antio

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Hi guys.

So, kill team seems to be the latest hotness and appears to be getting people both back into the hobby and trying out armies they’ve maybe wanted to run before but haven’t yet taken the plunge into.

I sort of fall into the first. Had dug out some GK that I’d planned on starting 5 odd years ago, but KT is giving me a good ‘in’ without being to expensive.

GK seem to be in an interesting place that the options they have are fairly limited. But that’s maybe not always bad as it might allow people to get the most out of what they’ve got.

I had a thought to start this thread to see what people’s opinions are on different load outs for each model, and then what specialisms you feel fit best.
I know that’s quite dependant on what’s in the rest of your list, but thought we could have a discussion about what goes well with what and what rank you’d put them in.

Happy to start the ball rolling.
Just to say I’ve not played 40k this edition, and not had a chance to have a go at KT yet either. But used to play a fair bit of comp fantasy and 40k back in the day, so hopefully I’m not shooting 100% blind!

Right. Here goes.
Going to put each one in a separate post to make it a bit easier to read!

Edited by Brother Tyler, 06 August 2018 - 10:29 AM.
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#2
Brother Antio

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Justicar.
Bit of a funny one as you can only take 1, he’s the only one that can be a leader and you’ve got to have a leader. So that’s the specialism.


In terms of gear.

Warding stave. It’s free, gives you the 5++ in combat and +2str. Downside is it’s only -1 AP.

Falchions. Plays into the hands of more attacks. You do have to pay however.

Think I’d then put hammer, sword and halberd all on a par. The hammer hits hard, and a justicar does have that extra attack. But you pay for it in points and you can get an extra attack with a combat specialist. But if you wanted 2 hammers then he’s a good choice. Sword and halberd seem opponent specific. Do you need to cut into armor more, say against marines. Or do you need help against toughness, thinking Deathguard specifically as I think they’re the only T5 out there.
Your command roster can have 20 bodies on it, so depending on what you run you could have an extra justicar or 2 with different weapon options.

Edited by Brother Antio, 01 August 2018 - 11:56 AM.

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#3
Brother Antio

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Gunner.

Gear first this time.
You can stick to stormbolter and nemesis weapon. But then you’re paying a point for access to the Heavy specialism. Tbh if you’ve got points and a specialism spare it’s not entirely bad for SB, but I there may be better options.
If you do go for a heavy gunner with SB, then falchions if you’ve got the points would seem best. Hammer would be at the bottom of the list as you’ve only got 1 attack and are at -1 to hit. The other 3 I think all seem fairly on par.

However you’ve picked a gunner here, you can pick some guns!

Incinerator. Personal opinion, I’m often useless at rolling dice and so something that auto hits I’d prefer. So I’d put this as the top weapon to choose.
Specialisms wise-
Demolition seems to fit best. You’re auto hitting so don’t need the bonus on that roll while the tactic if not against obscured targets, or just the trait if you are means wounding everything (I think) on a 2+.
If you’ve already got 1 incinerator demo knight and you want a second incinerator, personal opinion would be...(I had said scout but got that one wrong!) think I’d say Veteran. You can use that movement to get a bit closer and into range.

Psilencer. Think this comes as a ‘next best’ d3 damage and 4 more shots than a storm Bolter I think give it the edge, despite costing points and loosing the force weapon. In terms of specialism.
Heavy seems the obvious choice. Can add a shot with the tactic and the trait negates the negative of a heavy weapon.
Again, if you wanted 2 of them, personal opinion would be...(had thought sniper. But we can’t take that) Comms. Though need to check this. The rule says ‘model within 6” of this model’ I think that can mean the model it’s self, in which case you can give yurself the +1 to hit. But I’d need a confirmation on that.

Psycannon. Think this is last. Prob below SB to be honest. S7, so wounding on 3s at a worst, but most things on 2s, but downsides of heavy and only 1 damage. If you’re picking one then I think specialisms like the psilencer, so Heavy then Comms...But personally I’d go for something else.

Edited by Brother Antio, 02 August 2018 - 02:17 AM.

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#4
Brother Antio

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Grey Knight

So I think this is where the choices get interesting.
Each weapon option has a few specialties that would seem to work better, and some specialties might be better suited to different weapon options.

First off, Falchions.
You’ve got to pay for 2 of them, but the extra attack is very useful, especially if you’re like me and good at rolling 1s and 2s.
Specialism?
Zealot seems like the best fit. The trait adds not only a further attack but also a point of strength. The tactic gives you exploding 6s, and more attacks means more chance of additional attacks.
In terms of other specialisms. This is tricky.
Combat for an additional attack, but that might be needed elsewhere, maybe Vet to get nearer CC range earlier.

Next up, Hammer.
I think if you’re picking a combat list then it’s a good idea to have one maybe. But it is a bit overkill with the toughness of models in kill team. Plus the -1 to hit can hurt.
Specialism wise-
Combat I think is best. Extra attack means more chance to hit, and you should only need to hit once ;) zealot you need to have got the charge off, and the tactic from combat means you can play around with when attacks are happening, which is more useful than more attacks or more strength you’d get from zealot.
Second choice? Not massively convinced you need more than 1 hammer, and if you are taking more than 1 then specs might be better on other models. If you’re going all Hammer then zealot for the extra attack followed by which ever suits your play better, vet for movement, comms and demo for shooting.

Now the ‘free’ weapons.

Warding Stave.
Think this is one that might get overlooked, but also is more of a weapon that is useful for specialties rather than one that needs a specialty to help.
Think Comms works well, just because you can have that extra save if you’re in combat but still use the trait on a nearby model that’s out of combat. The rest seem much the same.


Lastly, Sword and Halberd.
These 2 seem to go quite well together as one gives you strength the other AP, so they’re a bit opponent specific. Thankfully I think we’ve got enough roster space to have a few.
Specialisms?
Zealot for swords for the same reason as for falchions. Works Tom for halberd to. Combat, again for those extra attacks. But personal opionion is the sword or halberd knight is the one to make up the numbers so probably ain’t getting the specialism.


Ok, done. Thoughts/criticisms welcome. I’ll post the roster I’ve made and a couple of the lists to pick from it next to try and give some context.

Edited by Brother Antio, 02 August 2018 - 02:22 AM.

Primus Illic Permaneo Sicco - First In, Last Out - Space Sharks VIth Company
Children Of Monatoa, There is Blood in the Water! - Sergeant Galean 1st Company Sergeant Siege of Tranquility Badab War 907.M41
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Per Suus Cruor Nos Vadum Exsisto Laurifer - By His Blood We Shall Be Victorious. Flesh Eaters IVth Company
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#5
Brother Antio

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+GK kill team+

Kill team mixed
Justicar. Stave. Leader- 19
Gunner, psilencer. Heavy- 22
Gunner, incinerator demo- 22
Knight Stave. comms- 18
Knight sword or halberd-18
Total-99

Or
Kill team combat
Justicar. Stave. Leader 19
Gunner, SB, Falchions heavy 21
Knight falchions zealot 20
Knight falchions 20
Knight hammer combat 20
Total-100

Or
Kill team long ranged
Justicar. Stave leader 19
Gunner psilencer heavy 22
Gunner psilencer Comms 22
Knight sword zealot or halberd combat 18
Knight Sword or Halberd 18
Total-99

Or
Kill team close ranged
Justicar stave leader 19
Gunner incinerator demo 22
Gunner incinerator Veteran 22
Knight sword zealot or halberd combat 18
Knight Sword or halberd 18

Total-99
—————

Command roster

Justicar. Stave. Leader
Gunner, psilencer. Heavy
Gunner psilencer. Comms
Gunner, incinerator demo
Gunner incinerator Veteran
Gunner, SB, Falchions, heavy
Knight hammer combat
Knight falchions zealot
Knight falchions
Knight halberd combat
Knight Halberd
Knight sword zealot
Knight sword
Knight Stave comms


-14 bodies so far.
If I come up with/come across another interesting list I have space to add to it :)

Edited by Brother Antio, 02 August 2018 - 09:37 AM.

  • Mechanicus_Adept and Prometheo567 like this
Primus Illic Permaneo Sicco - First In, Last Out - Space Sharks VIth Company
Children Of Monatoa, There is Blood in the Water! - Sergeant Galean 1st Company Sergeant Siege of Tranquility Badab War 907.M41
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Per Suus Cruor Nos Vadum Exsisto Laurifer - By His Blood We Shall Be Victorious. Flesh Eaters IVth Company
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#6
Prometheo567

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Pretty awesome and useful!

Now I've got to think which of these configurations could fit with my long-term plan of building a viable 40k army...



#7
sfPanzer

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Something you forgot to mention are the level 2 Heavy benefits which are Suppressor and the double shooting Tactic. Put that on a Silencer and you'll dramatically increase your teams survivability unless your opponent really spaces his models out (most won't due the aura effects) and even if they do you'll have a high chance to shut down his important model one way or another.

Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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#8
Brother Antio

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Yeah, I suppose I should say that I was only basing this on the level 1 tactics and traits.
Not sure how everyone’s local meta’s will handle level 2+ with the rules saying that’s for campaigns.
It does make a mess of points costs if I’ve understood it right.
Level 2 heavy looks fairly brutal. Level 2 demolitionalso looks quite nice with rerolling 1s to wound and effectively a 5++ save against any wound. Others seem to have a bit less synergy with their earlier traits. Combat tactic for example, although the traits are quite good especially for a hammer with adding 1 to hit rolls (that then goes to the level 3 trait of adding further attacks)

Edited by Brother Antio, 01 August 2018 - 01:57 PM.

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#9
Soder

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Do we get access to sniper and scout? I just had a relook through the rules and unless I’m missing it we only get access to Leader (Justicar only) Heavy (gunner only) Combat, Demolitions, Comms, veteran and zealot specializations. Also only 2 gunners maximum, so no 4-man gunner teams

Edited by Soder, 02 August 2018 - 12:44 AM.


#10
Brother Antio

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My bad, been looking at a deathwatch team too and clearly got confused. Thought we did get sniper and scout but apparently not! Gonna have to rewrite that lot now...
Really annoying that as I thought those were quite good second options.
Yeah, max 2 Gunners in a list, but your combat roster isn’t limited to that, you can have as many as you want, just only use 2 once picking a force to use in battle

Edited by Brother Antio, 02 August 2018 - 09:38 AM.

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#11
Soder

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My bad, been looking at a deathwatch team too! Thought we did get sniper and scout but apparently not! Gonna have to rewrite that lot now...
Really annoying that as I thought those were quite good second options.
Yeah, max 2 Gunners in a lost, but your combat roster isn’t limited to that, you can have as many as you want, just only use 2 once picking a force to use in battle

Gotcha, thanks for clarification. And yes I agree, no scouts and snipers is no fun!.. lol

#12
Brother Antio

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Shouldn’t be trying to do stuff like this after a night shift while looking after a baby and on 2 hours sleep ;) but was awake and thought it was interesting.
It’s actually made a right mess of my lists. Just trying to rewrite at the moment.
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#13
Corvus Fortis

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GK in KT is not about close combat at all. So Hammer or Falchions is worth it only if there are spare points left. You have to hide most of time from shooting and will be in close combat only by turn 3-4. GK have only 1 or 2 attacks unless take falchions. No rerolls in close combat, so chances you simply miss.

 

So close combat kill teams only for cases when you don't play to win, And anything is worth when you don't play to win.

 

For pure power one should rely on strom bolter, 4 shots from 12 inches, The main problem is how to get in range and not be taken down.

 

Best KT I set up I found so far: Leader (any weapon), Heavy Psilencer, Demolition Psilencer, Comms with any weapon, another guy with falchions. Everything is straightforward: psilencers with comms shoot whatever they can reach, while leader and another guy do the mission, Heavy can easily move to, if he needs. Worth both against gunlines and close combat. Psilencer is one of the best weapons in KT - 6 shots, 4 str, d3 dmg. Demolisher gives it +1 to-wound. Considering t3 and 4 are the most popular in KT, it will wound everything in cover on 2+ or 3+. And models in KT want to be in cover. Use demolition stratagem for maximum damage. Heavy negates -1 penalty, if mobility is needed. +1 shot is also worth it if you have spare CP. Nothing to explain on Comms - simply best specialist in game. I use his ability on demolisher  for maximum damage. I tend to hide leader for his bonus CP. Last guy shows out when he is in 12" from target and unleash 4 SB shots. Don't keep CP - use it for Psybolt Ammo, it is amazing in KT for only 1 CP. And don't forget psychic phase - it is a free mortal wound every turn.

 

In short, if GK get in 12" with 2-3 models, they won the game in 90%. Hardest part here is staying alive.

 

Why not to use other stuff? Well, incinerator is great here, but the problem is the same as with close combat - you'll get in range too late. I'd use it only against other close combat armies - this is where it shines. But again, psilencer will be fine here too. Against something like genestealer KT it may be worth to swipe 2 psilencers for 2 incinerators. Otherwise - psilencer simply easier to use.

 

Psycannon is better, than in main game thanks to specialism, that reduces its problems. But psilencers beats it thanks for 2 more shots and d3 damage.

Close combat weapons are worth only in counter-charge. If something got close behind LoS you can charge it without suffering Reaction (move or overwatch). In other cases 4 shots from stormbolter+psybolt ammo do the job better.

 

So that's it. For now I feel GK can fight back in KT unlike the main game. Only time shows if it is true.



#14
sfPanzer

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I wouldn't say GK aren't about melee per se. They get proper melee weapons with AP and multiple damage by default which makes it incredibly easy to take out models in melee while most other Kill Teams only get a single Power Weapon at best.

However as always they're Marines and it's still a variant of 40k so all the advantages of shooting over melee still apply. I would definitely not get more than one or two guys with fancy melee weapons in a team. You do need the ranged support to do anything.


Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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#15
Brother Antio

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Saw this on the DW forum, seems about right.
Wonder what people think would be good lists to go against those 5 archetypes.


From reddit but this makes the most seance to me:

You have to understand that you don't begin by creating a command roster, instead you create 3-5 lists to cover against all sorts of play style then you add them together to create a command roster.

DW and SM will be the most common faction if TO decides to use a command roster as a format.

You need to be able to cover against 5 types of list.
Horde kiting gunline like IG, DE, Eldar or tau drone spam.
Horde melee like Chaos, Death guard, GC and tyranids.
Elite melee like Admech, harlequin, death guard, DE, DW, GC and tyranids.
Elite gunline like SM, DW and Admech.
TAC list

You can easily create the fifth TAC list yourself from the command roster.


So, 5 lists,

Horde kiting gunline like IG, DE, Eldar or tau drone spam.

Horde melee like Chaos, Death guard, GC and tyranids.

Elite melee like Admech, harlequin, death guard, DE, DW, GC and tyranids.

Elite gunline like SM, DW and Admech.

TAC list

Any thoughts?
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#16
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Building to counter 5 lists sounds good in theory, and might be practical for elite armies such as the Grey Knights, but it probably won't work as well for armies with lots of options. Such factions will quickly find that they have more than 20 potential models overall and will then have to pick which ones to keep and which ones to get rid of. I'm not knocking the idea, mind you, but it could easily be re-phrased as "build a combat roster that gives you the flexibility to tailor your kill teams to different opponents."
 
I began looking at the Grey Knights last night when it dawned on me that I wouldn’t be able to get my eldar corsairs (Asuryani) converted and painted in time for a league that starts in 2 weeks. I’ve worked on Grey Knights in past editions of Kill Team, so they seemed like the appropriate fallback position for me. I’m assembling them now (the ones that haven’t been assembled yet, that is). My “Grey Knights” will actually be the Legio B&C, and since I’m playing somewhere new [to me], I’m ensuring that all of the weapons are appropriately WYSIWYG to prevent confusion. Some players might confuse them for Deathwatch due to the Legio’s appearance, but the Nemesis weapons should make it pretty clear who they are.
 
What follows are my initial thoughts on the Grey Knights for Kill Team. I’m sure that these will be refined through my own experiences as well as the input of others. My focus is on overall combat roster development – building a combat roster that allows you the most flexibility for a wide range of opponents.
 
One significant advantage that the elite (i.e., high point cost) kill teams have is that they are able to create a more flexible roster. This is especially evident with the Grey Knights, who have only three model options (Justicar, Grey Knight, Grey Knight Gunner). The command roster is a new concept in Kill Team, and one whose importance should not be underestimated. Necromunda has a similar mechanism, though Shadow War: Armageddon and previous editions of Kill Team did not have this mechanism. Mainstream Warhammer 40,000 doesn't have anything like this, so the concept will be new to many of us (including me, which is why my thinking is so focused on it at present). With the command roster, you are able create a pool of resources, picking and choosing the resources you need for each battle.
 
With the importance of shooting, the Grey Knights have an advantage in that each model has a powerful ranged attack. Up to two models may be equipped with heavy/special weapons, with the remaining models being equipped with storm bolters. The ability to fire 2 shots at 24” with a BS of 3+ should not be underestimated. That’s twice what the average (Chaos) Space Marine can do with his bolter, and generally better than the basic firearms of pretty much every other kill team’s basic model type.
 
It’s important to seriously consider the melee weapons. Since a maximum of two models in your kill team will be pure shooty, all other models, including your Justicar, will have a melee weapon (or two). You might not want to get into melee, but you still need to plan for it. The sword, halberd, and warding stave all cost 0 points, whereas the hammer and falchions options each cost 2 points (1 point for each falchion). You’ll want at least one of each weapon option on your combat roster – though I recommend at least two of each, with at least one of the models so equipped being a specialist.
 
With the Grey Knights, you have one mandatory model – the Justicar. You will have at least one Justicar, and as many more on your command roster as you want for flexibility. Each additional Justicar that you include on your command roster will reduce your overall flexibility, though, so I wouldn’t go overboard. Most players will get away with having only the one Justicar, though some might choose a second with a different weapon or maybe pursue the alternate Leader progression with the same weapon. If I were going the route of having two Justicars, I would have one for MEQ and the other for less well-armored opponents.
 
The next model to consider is the Grey Knight Gunner. While you can have a gunner with the “standard” (i.e., melee) weapons, the gunners are the only models that can take the incinerator, psilencer, and psycannon. The incinerator and psilencer will each cost you 3 points, whereas the psycannon will cost you 2 points. Since you can only take two Grey Knight Gunner models in a kill team, a strategy might be to include six total, two of each weapon on the roster. This will allow you to take the one or two weapons that best support your strategy.
 
After that, we have the basic Grey Knight. These models, like the Justicar, have five different weapons options – Nemesis force sword, Nemesis force halberd, Nemesis Daemon hammer, Nemesis warding stave, or two Nemesis falchions. Taking either the hammer or falchions option will cost you 2 points, with the others all being equal at 0 points. I recommend having three each of sword, halberd, and two each of stave, hammer, and falchions. One of each weapon type should be a specialist, and one should not be a specialist. For those weapons for which you have three on your roster, whether or not to have a second specialist in each weapon is up to you. If you do choose to include a second specialist for a weapon, I recommend that this be a different specialism from the first, which will allow you to include both models in the same kill team.
 
As far as specialisms for the Grey Knight Gunners go, the Heavy specialism works for any of the weapons. Yes, the incinerator doesn’t really benefit at level 1, but the abilities at higher levels can be very effective. Beyond that, while some specialist abilities have a more obvious benefit at level 1, all of them have interesting abilities at higher levels. Even if a level 2 ability doesn’t appear that good, odds are pretty good one of the level 3 abilities is good. And then consider the level 4 ability to choose any ability for that specialism. While some specialists/abilities might be duplicated across multiple members of the kill team, you should still consider having a variety of specialisms in your team. This will provide more overall flexibility for different missions.
 
Depending on your overall composition, you can have either four or five models in your kill team. A four-model Grey Knights kill team will have only the most expensive of model/weapon combinations, but will benefit from having lower Force in-game. However, such a kill team would maximize on the Grey Knight kill team's basic weakness, which is small numbers. My recommendation is that you aim for a more flexible five-model Grey Knights kill team.
 
As has been stated, there is the mandatory Justicar. While you can exclude gunners, I recommend that you always have at least one, and I prefer to have two in my kill team. The remaining models will all be regular Grey Knights.
 
So a summary of my initial recommendation for a Grey Knights combat roster for kill team looks something like:
  • Leader (equipped for MEQ)
  • Leader (equipped for non-MEQ)
  • Grey Knight Gunner – incinerator, specialist
  • Grey Knight Gunner – incinerator
  • Grey Knight Gunner – psilencer, specialist
  • Grey Knight Gunner – psilencer
  • Grey Knight Gunner – psycannon, specialist
  • Grey Knight Gunner – psycannon
  • Grey Knight – sword, specialist
  • Grey Knight – sword, specialist
  • Grey Knight – sword
  • Grey Knight – halberd, specialist
  • Grey Knight – halberd, specialist
  • Grey Knight – halberd
  • Grey Knight – falchions, specialist
  • Grey Knight – falchions
  • Grey Knight – hammer, specialist
  • Grey Knight – hammer
  • Grey Knight – stave, specialist
  • Grey Knight – stave
Note that my assumption on the Grey Knight Gunner "specialist" entries is that these are Heavy specialists. You can easily make the second model with the weapon some other type of specialist, though that reduces overall list flexibility.

With that, you can tailor your Justicar to the mission/opponent; you can take up to two gunners (only one will be a specialist if you have two of the same weapon); and you can take a flexible combination of regular Grey Knights, with specialists and non-specialists for each weapon so that you can get the "best" combination.
 
It will be interesting to see how my thoughts on the combat roster strategy will evolve over time.
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Anhrathe: KT faction rules | KT Command Roster (using Asuryani rules) | SWA/KT Miniatures WIP | SWA Kill Team Rules
Asuryani: (Homegrown SWA Kill Team Rules) Black Guardians | Dire Avengers | Howling Banshees | Striking Scorpions
Drukhari: (Homegrown SWA Kill Team Rules) Kabalite Trueborn
Ynnari: (Homegrown SWA Kill Team Rules) Ynnari
Inquisition: (Homegrown SWA Kill Team Rules) Ordos

#17
sfPanzer

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Keep in mind that specialists cost more points when you level them up so realistically in a campaign you'll eventually end up with a 4 man Kill Team anyway unless you keep them all at level 1.


Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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#18
Corvus Fortis

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So, 5 lists,

Horde kiting gunline like IG, DE, Eldar or tau drone spam.

Horde melee like Chaos, Death guard, GC and tyranids.

Elite melee like Admech, harlequin, death guard, DE, DW, GC and tyranids.

Elite gunline like SM, DW and Admech.

TAC list

Any thoughts?

 

 

GK simply do not have flexibility to have 5 different lists for every situation. From the other hand, they can overcome any build by playing it right.

 

We have 3 choices of spec weapons and 5 choices of melee weapons. Stormbolter beats most of them by effectiveness, Taking 2 psilencers and anything else with SB is enough to face any of these builds.
 

Against Ranged KT: try to outshoot their best gunners with your own, while 2-3 other models try to get in Psibolt/rapid fire range and do the mission.

Against Melee KT: take key positions and wait while enemy gets to close quarters himself. Here you can swap one psilencer with incinerator,

 

Elite or Horde - doesn't matter. GK in KT doesn't have specific means of crowd control. Against elites you maybe can give Psycannon a chance beacause 4 shots from long range (5 with Heavy stratagem), It wounds on 3+ any target and doesn't suffer penalty if on heavy. It also frees 1 point, that you can spend on falchions. But d3 damage on psilencer is better, IMO.

 

On melee weapons:

 

Against Ranged KT: you'll get in melee most likely by the end of the game - you cannot rush trough the battlefield untouched by shooting. And even at close range Stormbolter is more reliable.

 

Against Melee KT: only as a counter charge means - enemy comes closer himself. But I'd better fallback and use psybolt+stormbolter than charge with 1-2 attacks. Or you have to sacrifice specialist slot for zealot or combat spec.

 

Again: you can try different builds in Campaigns, where level 2+ abilities unlocked, or in Open Play. But this is not a competitive environment and is about having fun, not a game of minds where you want to win at any cost.



#19
Ioldanach

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Keep in mind that specialists cost more points when you level them up so realistically in a campaign you'll eventually end up with a 4 man Kill Team anyway unless you keep them all at level 1.

That is an excellent point, but relevance depends upon whether you're playing in Matched play (level 1 specialists only) or Campaign play (up to level 4 specialists). To me, this makes assigning your cheapest Grey Knights (i.e., swords, halberds, staves) as your primary specialists, alongside the Justicar and gunners, a key part of your overall command roster strategy for flexibility. It will be a balancing act in the end to get as many models into a Grey Knights kill team in the latter stages of a campaign, to be sure. Ultimately, this will affect everyone in a campaign, but will have more of an impact on the small elite armies, such as the Grey Knights.

Another aspect of Matched play versus Campaign play is fire teams. If a Grey Knights kill team maxes out specialists, it can't use the fire teams rule to advance the non-specialists because there are too few models in the kill team (you need at least two models in a fire team to gain experience). So overall kill team selection strategy is going to vary a bit in campaign play in that it's quite likely that you won't take the max of three specialists.

So my thoughts for now are more focused on Matched play and the command roster (which rescinds my earlier thoughts on level 2 and higher specialist abilities, I suppose).

Here's my initial stab at a command roster for a Grey Knights kill team, based on the setup that I posted previously. Assuming the overall composition (model types/quantities and wargear) is suitable, the real work remaining is the fine tuning of specialism assignments. The kill team I'm in the process of building is shown by the lines in green.
 

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(click on image for full size version)


Apologies for the small text (especially in the Specialism/Abilities category), but that's as large as I could make it and have everything still fit correctly.

Note that I've ignored things that are (so far) inconsequential, such as mission, background, demeanor, etc.
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Anhrathe: KT faction rules | KT Command Roster (using Asuryani rules) | SWA/KT Miniatures WIP | SWA Kill Team Rules
Asuryani: (Homegrown SWA Kill Team Rules) Black Guardians | Dire Avengers | Howling Banshees | Striking Scorpions
Drukhari: (Homegrown SWA Kill Team Rules) Kabalite Trueborn
Ynnari: (Homegrown SWA Kill Team Rules) Ynnari
Inquisition: (Homegrown SWA Kill Team Rules) Ordos

#20
TheCastigator

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After getting a few games in - against tau, nids, and thousand sons. I can say that grey knights are solid. We are medium at everything which in kill team is actually an advantage. One guy can gun down most infantry, esp with psybolt ammo, and gk combat potential is a deterrent. D3 on everything is very good and scares people.

Gk can also continue to function with only three guys. The biggest, and most obvious thing, is to play the mission first. Worry about killing stuff after that.

#21
Brother Haymaker

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Thanks, gents. This thread has been stupid helpful for a baby GK player who is trying to hop into KT to build confidence in the GK back up.



#22
Sviar

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As of yet an untried 100p list. It is a try-and-see-what-works-or-not listbiggrin.png .

I put together this one:

 

Two gunners, one with a Psycannon and one with a Psilencer.

One Justicar with a Deamonhammer.

Two Greyknight, one with a Nemesis Halberd, and one with a Nemesis Force Sword.



#23
Mechanicus_Adept

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@sviar, list looks good. What are the specialist skill choices you made?
New edition. New strategies. 8th edition.
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#24
Corvus Fortis

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Played two MP games today. 

 

First against Tyranid Warriors+Hive Guards with Venom Cannons.

 

My list:

 

Brother Captain, Halberd, Iron Arm, Psyker

Justicar, Leader, Halberd

Gunner, Veteran, Incinerator

Gunner, Demolisher, Psilencer

Grey Knight, Comms, Halberd

Grey Knight, Falchions

 

My opponent had Warrior Commander, Hive Guard Sniper, Hive Guard Heavy, two Warriors with some rapid-fire cannons and one with heavy cannon. He used adaptaion, that gave him auto-obscure. Mission was about killing each other's commanders. I thought, I will be wiped by turn 2, but suprisingly, killed his Commander on turn 4, leaving lonely warrior with flesh wound on the board.

 

His main mistake was at dividing firepower between different targets instead of focusing on my commander. Dice were really on my side (I managed to make a wound to a Hive Guard from Stormbolter fire of my leader, that was like 22" away). Iron Arm was handy, as it made Venom Cannons -1 to-wound. I still think demolisher is better for psilencer than heavy, if it is in proper position. +2 to cast is decisive. I would fail Iron Arm twice without it. Brother Captain is absolute killer in close combat even without close-combat oriented specialisms. 

 

But Kill Team is still a gamble. Venom cannons often missed/failed to wound and even when they did, they rolled 1-2 for injury roll. From the other hand, hive guard and warriors got several stray bolts and psilencer was good at hit/wound. 

 

The second game was against necrons - Lord, Lychguard and Flayed ones. Mission was about scoring objective in the centre with Commanders. I changed Demolisher's weapon to incinerator, and my leader to Librarian, psyker, Sanctuary, Gate, stave and stormbolter. Despite some mistakes and bad luck (I rolled 4 6's in a row for injury rolls on a single lychguardian) I managed to kill his Commander with smite barrage. Doublecast smite on Librarian is a really strong combo. We should absolutely wreck any other elite armies. 

 

I really like our elite heroes, but see not that much use for Terminators/Paladins. They are still too vulnerable to stuff like plasma and you can take 2 grey knights in their place, and we are really low on bodies.


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#25
Mechanicus_Adept

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Played two MP games today. 
 
...
I really like our elite heroes, but see not that much use for Terminators/Paladins. They are still too vulnerable to stuff like plasma and you can take 2 grey knights in their place, and we are really low on bodies.


Having seen vids from others and reading the rules there is no point in having a whole squad of terminators/paladins. Having more bodies and using the new elite rules for Grey Knights have really helped the faction out in KT games.

I recently bought a box of terminator/paladins, but i intend to convert some as commanders with the extra bitz
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