slitth Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Also, why do you think it would be a bad thing if Primaris got their own book? They have no integration with normal marines in the book, they don't share transports, strategems or unit design. The Marine codex is extremely bloated and it will get worse with the additions of new unis. It's time for an independendantly balanced codex for these guys. So instead of make the Primaris and old marine integrate in the future, you would like to make Primaris completely independent? Do we not have enough power armour imperial factions as it is? Do we need another one? And how would you balance a independent Primaris codex with the current space marine one? Having 2 independent space marine ranges can make the figure range bloated. Besides I would expect an update to the other armies in terms of models before we will see an new marine faction codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Caldersson Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 I don't think Agressors represent Termies at all. I always imagined termies as high damage resistant, the immovable walls of the msrines. Once in place they are impossible to move out. Meanwhile tacticals would move forward to take ground. Agressors are heavy offensive capabilities, a count to the terminators. They lack a Crux terminates which made the terminators so defensive. Then you have the lack of melee weapons which in CQC the termies should shine (should, but don't always on TT). The downside of termies was lack of maneuverability which is why they have teleporters. As sad as it is, I hope that Primaris if done properly do take over. They feel like they are true Marines and not just human +1 toughness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 The Primaris and standard marines aren't visually compatible, in my opinion. The difference in size and proportions is noticeable. My passion for the hobby is split equally between collecting and painting, lore and gaming. The Primaris Marines in my eyes are far more visually impressive, if a little generic at this moment time. I believe, as hard to hear as it is, that the existing line will eventually become a legacy army supported only in rules, similar to the old Empire range in Age of Sigmar. The hobby moves forward. Old models will always be available for use in games but ranges get updated. Also Primaris, in terms of function on the tabletop, are definitely NOT a case of upscaled Marines. They are designed in the same way as the Xenos factions, with dedicated units for specific function. GW doesn't want to be encumbered by the design of the old army, clearly. I think the biggest weakness of Marines is the shared statline across all units and most vehicles. Without specialisation they can't excell at anything, and it has ultimately led to the dissatisfaction we currently feel with the range. So yes, I'll be very happy with a Primaris only codex. And I own 11,000 points of regular Ultramarines lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 The difference in size is SUPPOSED to be noticeable. Primaris don't just have bigger models they are bigger in-universe as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Not just size but proportions also. They have a different model design in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Yeah I'm not disagreeing on that. I'm not a big fan of the older Marine models and only seriously started with Marines thanks to the Primaris. However size is really not the right argument. ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 I was chatting to some gw staff at HQ, and they said the company was very much aware of the social media backlash when the new models launched, even if it is a case of vocal minority it may have had an impact on the Primaris release schedule. I hope that's not the case! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 They had backlash because of the :cuss fluff. They should not have the Angels of Death, the best warriors that humanity have that held the line for 10 millennia, and introduce the Super Brand New Angels of Death that have been in stasis for 10 millennia. Its moronic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 It's happened before, remember the Thunder Warriors? The Marines were instruments for a specific job, not supposed to be worshipped or venerated. The cycle repeats itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 I really don't see the issue with the fluff. Objectively it's not bad. The way it got told was just not that good but that's a general problem of GW story telling, especially in half-arsed campaigns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Your standarts are really low. The Emps did not have SM on ice for 10k before replacing TW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Let's look at the positives - with future releases we might finally get an Astartes army that looks, feels AND performs in the way we'd want them to :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Been waiting for a year now man. Sometimes it gets on my nerves. I want the range expanded so we can build a balanced army with Primaris. Just that. While some of the stuff grinds my gears I can work around it. Hopefully Warhammer fest will deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 I feel it's coming soon. Once all the books are out new Primaris releases is an obvious next step. I totally agree, also. I own multiples of units from the current range, time for it to expand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slitth Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 As for vehicles. Would the simplest solution not be to make a upgrade kit for the Rhino and Land Raider chassis? Giving them anti-gravitic generators and turning them into Primaris only vehicles. A simple kit and a simple rule addition to the codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 The Repulsor is already a flying land raider with both the anti-tank firepower of the regular variant and the Dakka of a crusader. Rhinos are too small visually. If anything we need a fast insertion delivery platform, and a dedicated Tank unit that's cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Hopefully Primaris Drop pods? 5 Primaris on one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Yes, definitely. They should be different however - I'd like a Pod that actually provides significant firepower upon arrival. Something that has a use beyond the initial turn. Alternatively id like a piece of terrain like a Teleportarium! If we get faster units we might not have a need for them however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Caldersson Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 I really don't see the issue with the fluff. Objectively it's not bad. The way it got told was just not that good but that's a general problem of GW story telling, especially in half-arsed campaigns. It has several huge plot holes, that don't revolve around "I hate the Primaris and so tiny details I will pick at". Cawl had these warriors on ice while the imperium stood on the edge of disaster how many times? Several chapter wiped out including the IF, when they could have been replinished. Not to mention the logistics of how he picked up so many recruits without anyone noticing. As for the backlash, it came down to mostly 3 things it seems. 1. People simply hating them for little to no reason. 2. People hating them because of their fluff. 3. How they are severly limited due to lack of force options and the vehicle restrictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbienw Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 4. People not liking the look of the models, in particular inceptors, aggressors and reivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 40k has always been filled with plot holes. Angron being given command of a Legion and being allowed to make it into a less effective force with higher attrition rates is one such bit of silliness. How about the Emperor not warning his sons about Chaotic corruption? Fulgrim and Horus and Lorgar could have been saved. Common sense doesn't always rule in the Imperium lol. 4. People not liking the look of the models, in particular inceptors, aggressors and reivers. Some people don't like new stuff. There's nothing wrong with the models. Imo they look great on the tabletop and stand out more than the regular line of similar models with different guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 I really don't see the issue with the fluff. Objectively it's not bad. The way it got told was just not that good but that's a general problem of GW story telling, especially in half-arsed campaigns. It has several huge plot holes, that don't revolve around "I hate the Primaris and so tiny details I will pick at". Cawl had these warriors on ice while the imperium stood on the edge of disaster how many times? Several chapter wiped out including the IF, when they could have been replinished. Not to mention the logistics of how he picked up so many recruits without anyone noticing. As for the backlash, it came down to mostly 3 things it seems. 1. People simply hating them for little to no reason. 2. People hating them because of their fluff. 3. How they are severly limited due to lack of force options and the vehicle restrictions. Also Cawl keeping those Marines while everything else goes to :cuss isn't exactly a plothole. It just shows how strictly they follow orders in the imperium and especially in the admech at times. Nobody allowed Cawl to set them loose and his only concern was creating them and nothing beyond that. Primaris are a product he manufactured for someone else. He has neither a right nor interest to use them at his own whim. Individual thinking is not exactly something that's encouraged within the imperium. I feel that's something many people seem to forget when it comes to Primaris. Especially after the HH when they began to move away from the imperial truth. Cawl gathering test thousands of test subjects is something I can give you I guess. However the galaxy is a big place and there are Inquisitors and especially Tech Priests doing things nobody else better know about so I guess kidnapping a few almost dead Space Marines from a lost battlefield or similar is not THAT farfetched. For the rest: 1. Yeah that happens all the time and there's literally nothing anybody can do about it so I don't even care about those people and their opinions 2. Something I can only semi understand. I understand that they're lacking things that make regular Space Marines so interesting, like for example the whole tradition thing of Terminator armour having their own individual history and so on. I don't understand the hate about the origin and the nature of Primaris tho. 3. A perfectly fine reason and something I don't like either. However I'm optimistic that we're going to see more options in the future so it's only a matter of time. More a problem of GWs marketing strategy here and less a problem of Primaris themselves 4. People not liking the look of the models, in particular inceptors, aggressors and reivers. A perfectly valid opinion. I don't exactly like the look of Inceptors either. Could be the pose or just that flying Gravis armour is not to my taste. That doesn't mean I hate everything about Primaris tho. For example I really like Inceptors as unit on the board. ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chapter master 454 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 I find it funny: a lot of people don't like the look of primaris but I seem to be part of a small group that loves the look of primaris, including gravis armour units! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 I find it funny: a lot of people don't like the look of primaris but I seem to be part of a small group that loves the look of primaris, including gravis armour units! Don't be mistaken, lots of people love the look of Primaris. They just aren't vocal about it. The only thing I don't like visually are Inecptors but I'm on board with literally everything else we got so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 People are most vocal when expressing negative opinions, and that will never change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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