HH 53: Titan Death by Guy Haley

[Roomsky]

I don't intend to read this book based on the reviews, but, to be fair, I probably wasn't going to read it based on the premise.

 

What was the main purpose of this books? Was it to show off the titans? Was it to give a nod to existing lore? Would it have made a different if this book didn't exist and Slaves to Darkness was edited to be a direct follow-on to Wolfsbane? Or is it integral to the narrative journey?

 

Much of the community was irate that "the largest scale battle of the Heresy" was getting zero coverage outside of short stories and oblique references. That something so apparently monumental would be covered exclusively in a Black Book was admittedly an odd move, and I can hardly blame them for backtracking and pumping one out.

 

It's also nice to see a more self contained story about the non-astartes forces in the Heresy. While I would say it's their tale, they're hardly the only armies involved, entire worlds swore to one side or another. I'm just glad we're seeing a little more of it, divisive quality of the book notwithstanding.

 

Besides, the Heresy is a setting in all but name at this point. Viewing it as a "series" will only earn you a headache and disappointment.

 

And @Carach, I feel you would be disappointed with my opinions on the matter, so I'm gonna let that one die.

[Carach]

 

Please, for the love of the God-Emperor, if you want to hear that, PM him about it. I really don't want yet another thread derailed by pointless arguments about irrelevant topics (I'm not saying you've done this yourself, Carach, but it's happened a lot in general and I can just see it looming again) 

 

 

 

[Zhiv]

<.< Something-something about Hailey being asked to write a book 'quick' and Hayley being

'Well, gonna have some fun with it. Space-mecha-lesbian time.'

And then being like  'Well, that was fun, alright mateys?'

[Red_Shift]

I enjoyed the book, just finished it this evening. For titan on titan action I preferred abnetts titanicus but the imperial hunters came across well as a fully characterised legion and the whole thing was fairly easy to read. Best bit has to be the warhound negotiating the shoreline for me a d I think if Haley does more titan books focusing on a single maniple might be better. I know that wasn't the focus of this particular book.

[m0nolith]

Ruinstorm did a very good job of moving Sanguinius beyond his fears/doubts of being tied to one certain future. It's a bit of a shame haley has chosen to refocus on that "i don't die here" sort of fatalism for his appearance here.

Really? I really liked what they did to him at the end of Ruinstorm.

Is this just a case of two authors not communicating to create an arc for a character? I'm imagining both of the books were being written at the same time at some point.

[TheRealMcCagh]

'There was no talk of his mood changing back, or even comparing the old Sanguinius to the new. Quiet, brooding and distracted was how they had come to recognize their lord, a tendency that had begun at Signus and had grown ever since, and although he had become more centered after the events of Davin, and more resolved, he had hardly grown more joyful.' From Raldoran's thoughts. Even his own sons think he has become a bit of a sulker. And I know this is a minuscule change, but the Red Tear now has a giant golden throne on it's bridge that Sanguinius sits and broods on. I kind of liked in Fear to Tread how Sanguinius had refused a throne on his ship because he didn't want to command over his crew, but I guess being named Emperor 2.0 gave him a taste for it.

 

The fight scenes with him are pretty cool, but when he isn't fighting it's just a lot of 'he smiled, but there was no joy behind his eyes,' 'His thoughts seemed to be somewhere else,' 'Sanguinius' beautiful eyes closed against a private pain.'

[b1soul]

@ TheRealMcCagh

 

"but when he isn't fighting it's just a lot of 'he smiled, but there was no joy behind his eyes,' 'His thoughts seemed to be somewhere else,' 'Sanguinius' beautiful eyes closed against a private pain.'"

 

Truly the most emotionally sensitive primarch

[Charlo]

For those who are Aduible inclined like myself, TITANDEATH is now up for pre-order. Releases 16/02

 

So hyped!

[Indefragable]

For those who are Aduible inclined like myself, TITANDEATH is now up for pre-order. Releases 16/02

 

So hyped!

 

Great catch.

[Phoebus]

Much of the community was irate that "the largest scale battle of the Heresy" was getting zero coverage outside of short stories and oblique references. That something so apparently monumental would be covered exclusively in a Black Book was admittedly an odd move, and I can hardly blame them for backtracking and pumping one out.

I agree with this for the most part, but if you ask me what we’re really talking about is a larger critique on how the second half (and change) of the Horus Heresy has been depicted. Beta-Garmon almost not getting a proper depiction would’ve essentially been the cherry at the top of the cake of much of the Heresy, well, just not being depicted.

 

I know, that sounds rather extreme, but if you really think about it much of the action shown post-Calth and the Shadow Crusade has shown what’s been going on in the fringes and backdrop of this galactic conflict — not the conflict itself. A conscious choice was made to take a 4-6 year period of the Heresy, which had largely been a blank slate in the original lore, and prioritize writing material about Imperium Secundus and the Shattered Legions. Of the 29 novels that came after Mark of Calth, just 12 involve events that directly affect the key factions, major battles, or truly pivotal events. That’s not to say that people shouldn’t like, e.g., The Damnation of Pythos; it’s just that the story that informs us on how the antagonist from Ruinstorm came about is ultimately not as important as, e.g., that of the war the Emperor and his Custodian Guard waged in the Webway.

 

It is what it is.

[Fedor]

Hopefully the heresy era remains open as a setting for novels and we get more of the gaps filled in if authors are interested. We could certainly do with more Luna wolves on the road to terra stuff.

[Roomsky]

 

Much of the community was irate that "the largest scale battle of the Heresy" was getting zero coverage outside of short stories and oblique references. That something so apparently monumental would be covered exclusively in a Black Book was admittedly an odd move, and I can hardly blame them for backtracking and pumping one out.

I agree with this for the most part, but if you ask me what we’re really talking about is a larger critique on how the second half (and change) of the Horus Heresy has been depicted. Beta-Garmon almost not getting a proper depiction would’ve essentially been the cherry at the top of the cake of much of the Heresy, well, just not being depicted.

 

I know, that sounds rather extreme, but if you really think about it much of the action shown post-Calth and the Shadow Crusade has shown what’s been going on in the fringes and backdrop of this galactic conflict — not the conflict itself. A conscious choice was made to take a 4-6 year period of the Heresy, which had largely been a blank slate in the original lore, and prioritize writing material about Imperium Secundus and the Shattered Legions. Of the 29 novels that came after Mark of Calth, just 12 involve events that directly affect the key factions, major battles, or truly pivotal events. That’s not to say that people shouldn’t like, e.g., The Damnation of Pythos; it’s just that the story that informs us on how the antagonist from Ruinstorm came about is ultimately not as important as, e.g., that of the war the Emperor and his Custodian Guard waged in the Webway.

 

It is what it is.

 

 

The cynical part of me is more in favor of what we've been getting. In theory, yes, I would have liked things to be a bit more campaign focused, and to have the soap opera mixed in with more strategium sessions and maybe even *gasp* a non-superficial description of how the war is going. That said, for an author stable that at face value writes books about war, most of them are basically incapable of making warfare the least bit interesting. Even for someone as good at writing soldiers as Abnett, the actual shooting is the least interesting parts of his books.

 

Which isn't to say you couldn't write a Heresy series focused more on Horus' actual campaign, but you'd need like, the literal cream of the crop as the only writers to make it even half way bearable IMO. The balance isn't easy, and I feel if the series had gone further in that direction with the present quality of authorship it would have been absolutely mind-numbing. Moreso that victory or defeat in the Heresy novels tends to come across as completely arbitrary anyway. The outcome of Beta Garmon in Titandeath doesn't seem to have anything to do with what the protagonists are doing. It's all well and good to say Sanguinius didn't put enough forces in the right places, but we only see him flying around and decapitating titans, and not a bit of him struggling to manage his ever-thinning resources.

 

So while what you said is an issue, I can't help but think it works in the series' favor to keep the war itself at arms' length. It's just easier to make an interesting soap opera than an interesting Perturabo deciding where to maneuver tanks 50,000 - 63,000 in the battle of Tallarn. 

[Phoebus]

I more or less agree with what you’re saying, Roomsky. I guess the point I’m driving it has less to do with the format of the stories, per se, and more with their location. Damnation of Pythos, for example, isn’t any less combat-driven than, say, Praetorian of Dorn. It just happens to be out in the fringes of the galaxy and the margins of the larger storyline. Edited February 13, 2019 by Phoebus

[b1soul]

...and not that well-written IMO

 

I think French is just the stronger authour

[Fedor]

Pythos has some very good writing and characters in it imo, though it definitely wasn't a necessary book for the time it came out. Maybe it being a sidetory for adding colour would have been better received if McNeill had made Vengeful Spirit what most at the time thought it was going to be....a deep dive into the Luna Wolves and Horus, more character oriented than the big set piece ensemble battle book with little character development it was.

Edited February 13, 2019 by Fedor

[Phoebus]

Another way to put it is this: Warmaster and Anarch take place on the planet Urdesh — the fulcrum of the Sabbath Crusade, at the time. Nonetheless, neither novel really concerns itself with the major battles going on (we never see the titular warlord until nearly the end of the last entry of the Victory arc). Was either entry poorly received? Not at all — not even by this guy, who had yearned for a glimpse of the penultimate battle, between Saint Sabbat and the Archon. However removed we may have been from that action, we were aware of the grander events in motion, of their importance, and how they shaped the war. For his part, Abnett was able to weave an intimate storyline about characters he clearly cares about.

[Karhedron]

And I know this is a minuscule change, but the Red Tear now has a giant golden throne on it's bridge that Sanguinius sits and broods on. I kind of liked in Fear to Tread how Sanguinius had refused a throne on his ship because he didn't want to command over his crew, but I guess being named Emperor 2.0 gave him a taste for it.

Or made him realise the necessity of it. In the darkness of the Heresy, he needed to become a symbol to keep his sons (and the mortals) inspired. He is brooding because he has to sit on a throne and be inspirational whilst fighting his brothers when he would rather be soaring the skies.

[MarineRaider]

First- I hated this book. It was a very, very tough read. 

 

I had sometime tonight after patrol and read through this thread and found the discussions about should and Big E, awesome.

 

I hate Chaos and want E to eventually wipe out their miserable and worthless existence. I have hope. In Dark Imperium RG notes in the "conversations" with his father that he is probably more powerful now than when he walked. I think E is husbanding his strength and moving around his pieces much like he did with Malcador on the board before the invasion. It's taken a long-time but he has always played the long game. Chaos by it's very nature as we witnessed as the fallen Primarchs fractured cannot hope to face a singular, powerful adversary like E a group, he will rip them apart one by one starting with his fallen sons. In the coming years he will reclaim them as sons ( we just saw that reference in another HH short) or destroy them. Once he has undone the damage by the 4 idiots posing as Chaos Gods he will ascend formally and his sons will be in place too exact his will.

 

I look very much to seeing Corax ripping the butchers nails from Angrons head and shoving up.....

[Moonreaper666]

First- I hated this book. It was a very, very tough read.

 

I had sometime tonight after patrol and read through this thread and found the discussions about should and Big E, awesome.

 

I hate Chaos and want E to eventually wipe out their miserable and worthless existence. I have hope. In Dark Imperium RG notes in the "conversations" with his father that he is probably more powerful now than when he walked. I think E is husbanding his strength and moving around his pieces much like he did with Malcador on the board before the invasion. It's taken a long-time but he has always played the long game. Chaos by it's very nature as we witnessed as the fallen Primarchs fractured cannot hope to face a singular, powerful adversary like E a group, he will rip them apart one by one starting with his fallen sons. In the coming years he will reclaim them as sons ( we just saw that reference in another HH short) or destroy them. Once he has undone the damage by the 4 idiots posing as Chaos Gods he will ascend formally and his sons will be in place too exact his will.

 

I look very much to seeing Corax ripping the butchers nails from Angrons head and shoving up.....

Chaos has been rigging the game long before the Emperor was even conceived

 

Even time travelers like Orikan the Diviner, the Alpha Legion, Cypher or Ollanius Pius don't even dare to stop Chaos!

 

Drach'nyen has grown in power as well

 

And only the Custodes actually get help from the Emperor

[Lord_Caerolion]

Alpha Legion... time travellers? Source?

[Marshal Rohr]

Its moonreaper. Nothing his says is anything but made up.

[Morovir]

As much as I hate to admit it, in Perpetual, there is an Alpha Legionnaire pursuing Oll Persson using another athame to cut through space and time as he did.

 

He fails.

 

But even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[Moonreaper666]

As much as I hate to admit it, in Perpetual, there is an Alpha Legionnaire pursuing Oll Persson using another athame to cut through space and time as he did.

 

He fails.

 

But even a broken clock is right twice a day.

The Chaos Gods have already secured their victory by rigging the game and its pieces long before the game has started

 

 

The HH Novels just show how :cussed the Emperor was before he started his impossible war against Chaos

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Let's stay on topic of the novel Titan Death.

 

Jar Kjaran Coldheart

Moderator of the B&C

[Warsmith Uveron]

Well I just finished the book. 

 

I read it as my local gaming group is preparing for a AT campaign using the Titan Death Source book rules and I decided as the companion book I should read it. 

 

And for that purpose it was great. At the end of the day their are two types of Black Library Books. The Ones where an Author Says "I have a Great Idea" and the Ones where the Studio says "we need this book to tie to this product". This is one of the latter, and the book suffers for it but all the books of that style do. And as someone who has only read the first 4 books of the series so far Its set me up for the Seige of Terra books well. 

Edited February 19, 2019 by Warsmith Uveron