Ideas to improve upon Primaris Marines lore

[Dracos]

Friendly disagreement is good. I’m not defending anyone. I am just stating fact that GW makes the lion share of their revenue from selling models. I’ve been hooked on the fluff since I read the Inquistor Draco (no relation ;)) novels waaaaaay back when. Ive lost touch until recently for the last 10(?) years ... since beginning of 5th.

 

The fluff has been very much hit and miss and often contradictory over the years and I imagine even more so in the last decade. 1st half a dozen or so of the HH were some of the best things I ever read so maybe expectations are buyer theses days? I can just say 40k was dead to me until I saw the Primaris models while visiting a lgs for rp supplies. Models were are awesome. Could the fluff better? Would I do some things different? Heck yes. I admit I’m not a fan of Cawl and would have like to see a trilogy of his struggles to develop and keep the Primaris project alive. To see him dipping into Corax project to making deals with Fabius. Hints at the failed foundings. Anything to give him depth. And maybe they willl?

 

Building models and even rules is easy compared to world building. They’ve been darn slow to release the model line IMO so I guess waiting on the fluff to grow as the line grows doesn’t bother me. Most likely it’ll get reconned in ten years anyway.

[durdle-durdle]

Scenario up front: Wind back the clock to the end of 7th ed.  A GW exec walks into your writer's office and shows you Primaris marines.  He tells you they have to be integrated into the story somehow, starting from the fall of Cadia and the re-awaking of Guilliman.  How would you go about doing this?

 

So, obviously, the introduction of the Primaris marines have created controversy within the community.  Some people love them, some people hate them.  I'll be open and honest that I am a Primaris fanboy.  The big complaint I've seen seems to be how jarringly different they are from the rest of the Imperium.  And they are--They're technologically advanced, and where the rest of the Imperium has the image of a dying group, the Primaris are this huge bright point.  They're easier to make, they're stronger, etc.

 

As an aspiring writer, I like to look at things like this that seem to have somewhat failed in the community, and think about how they could have been done better.  So, how would you have written them into the fluff differently?

 

Here's how I would have done it, I think.

 

Guilliman wakes up, Cadia falls, the Cicatrix Maledictum opens.  On the Terran side of the rift, things continue kind of as normal.  They're unable to contact the Imperium Nihilus, and so they spend their time fighting off threats on their side and preparing to get back in touch with the Nihilus.  When eventually they do come into contact again, a couple hundred-a thousand years later, problems ensue.

 

Because this half of the Imperium was cut off from Terra, they had to change in order to defeat the forces of Chaos that were actively invading them.  A new oligarchy formed around the governors of the planets who formed an assembly to rule.  Over time, being away from the rest of the Imperium, they began to question the teachings of the Imperial Creed, and eventually reject it.  In order to combat the chaos forces on the Nihilus side, the Mechanicus on this side is overthrown by radical sects who want to innovate and create new things.

 

In this manner, the new Primaris marines were born.  With some volunteers from whatever chapters were on that side, the Mechanicus Nihilus was able to create new strains of gene seed.  These new versions are stronger, harder to kill, and are easier to create.

 

With the Imperium Nihilus' rejection of the Imperial Creed and the inability for inquisitors to get to that side of the rift, humanity (and the Primaris marines by extension) do seem to fall prey to the lure of chaos somewhat more easily.  It's not a common thing, however, without faith in the emperor and the dogmatic rituals of the Imperium to hold onto, it seems more common for those on this side to fall.

 

When contact is eventually re-established with Terra and a safe route is found through the rift, both sides are shocked at the other.  The Imperium Terra is disturbed by the new technology and the new brand of marines (and the Firstborn marines are even more upset about it).  The Imperium Nihilus finds the religiosity of the Old Imperium to be disturbing as well.  This leads to a war between the two branches of the Imperium.

 

A group of Eldar from Ulthwé appear and tell both sides that Abbadon is planning another invasion as large as the 13th crusade.  At the same time, a new tendril of Tyranids is invading elsewhere.  If the Imperium continues to fight each other, Chaos will destroy both of them and rule the universe.  So despite not liking each other, the two come to terms that "at least they're humans and not Chaos."  Working together, they are able to throw back Abbadon's crusade, break the Tyranid invasion, and they go into a cold war with each other.

 

Also, the Rubicon Primaris doesn't exist.  If you're a Firstborn, you will stay that way.  

 

So in this way, it explains why we have these new marines who are similar but different.  If a person wanted to play firstborn marines, they could have a chapter from the Imperium Terra.  If they wanted to play Primaris, they could play a chapter from the Imperium Nihilus.  If they wanted to mix the two, they could play a chapter who came to terms with the changes in the Impperium Nihilus and has partially integrated the technology.  

[Marshal Rohr]

Simply make them better scaled old marines. Would’ve solved so many problems. Edited August 15, 2019 by Marshal Rohr

[Blindhamster]

I would have done it as is, but made an effort to introduce cawl sooner. And I'd have at least included hints or what he was up to in some codexes and story books.

[Leif Bearclaw]

OP, you're making this far too overly complicated. Rohr's got the right of it. You don't need to introduce Primaris Marines at all to get the new range.

 

One thing I would change, intoroduce Cawl before Gathering Storm as an Ad Mech explorator. In a campaign supplement/novel (or combination of both) Cawl discovers a haul of shiny STC tech. Then Gathering Storm goes off (personally I would change pretty much everything here, because it was an abomination, but that goes beyond the scope of this scenario). Gulliman wakes up and eventually gets to Terra. Noticing that 's really bad, Gulliman orders a new Marine founding in reaction to all the bad stuff going down. As a part of this process he overhauls Marine doctrine and upgrades their equipment with Cawl's shiny loot, stores and blueprints of which are then disseminated to extant Chapters. So you get your new shiny Intercessors etc. to sell to Marine fans, but the dudes inside are the same Marines the fans know and love. They'd just need a 'we finally have the resources and technology to bring you Marines sized like we always wanted to' type press release, and job's a good 'un.

[Captain Idaho]

I would have introduced the idea of Cawl a long time ago.

 

But the obvious, cleaner way to introduce a "better than the Emperor's" genetic engineered super soldier is Thunder Warriors.

[Robbienw]

I would have made them a new type of marine, but not marines +1, so they would also have some disadvantages compared to standard marines.

 

Something along the lines of Primaris are tougher and stronger, but they are slower and not quite as skilled in hand to hand as normal marines are. Something like that, so both types have advantages.

 

I would have made the vanguard units to be standard marines instead of Primaris because of this, and would commit to both lines being supported going forward with new stuff.

 

I’d have made the repulsor and impulsor available to standard marines, and the Land Raider to Primaris (rhino still looks too small for them to get in though)

[Ishagu]

If the Primaris were simply a re-scale of classic Astartes people would be even more outraged.

 

I remember when the base size changed. The rage birthed a new Chaos God...

[Sete]

New armour STC found. Resize chaos to the same size since their range was old.

Update rules to give SM more wounds and stuff.

Make a starter box not ultramarines vs chaos with them fancy new models, multipart kit and with sprues available for everyone to kit their favourite chapters/legions. Dont block them from using my rhinos pods and lrc.

Take a nap, and wake up rich.

Guilliman still in stasis, and the last battle for cadia just began.

 

Everything still there, with a chance to follow up a story if I want to blow up cadia and make a Matt Wardian setting.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Sete

[Leif Bearclaw]

If the Primaris were simply a re-scale of classic Astartes people would be even more outraged.

 

I remember when the base size changed. The rage birthed a new Chaos God...

Which is why we're still seeing regular threads about how terrible the shift to 32mm bases was and how Marines on 25mm bases are obsolete, years after they were introduced. Oh wait, no we're not.

[Claws and Effect]

Like others said, I would have introduced Cawl into the setting pretty much as soon as I got a look at the new models.

 

If we had gotten background about how this crazy Archmagos has been working on something in secrecy for all these years and had hints dropped that some of the Chapters out there weren't standard Marines, it would have gone over better.

 

Fans of things like when they can theory craft and have their theories be proven out.

 

As it is, we got "here's these new guys with absolutely no buildup or hints that they were coming!"

[Ishagu]

There were hints at the end of gathering storm, and the introduction has been pretty gradual.

[Rik Lightstar]

I think if they'd dropped Cawl and Guilliman meeting and being buddies into the Heresy books early on it would have been better received.

 

So I'd have included Cawl as Guilliman's advisor in Ultramar when the Word Bearers hit. Then Guilliman sends him back to Mars to begin a project.

 

Folling up, later in the Heresy series with the Martian conflict going on, Cawl would be referenced as back but not taking sides, this should be the point where he's given some "weight" as an Arch-Magos of similar rank to the other major players.

 

When Malcador is doing his stuff later with his "proto-inquisition" again Cawl should get some face-time in the story. With Malcador giving his seal of approval and access to the Emperor's data.

 

This then tees up the situation with Guilliman waking up, he goes back to the project that he always intended to turn the tide.

 

Rik

[FlamingDeth]

The general rule in writing is that the bigger the twist is, the more and earlier you have to start forshadowing. Going "oh there were hints in gathering storm" is nothing, for a change to the setting as fundamental as what they did they should have been dropping hints in, like, 5th edition, and cawl should have been introduced exact moment they started dropping admech models. There would still be lots of people unhappy with it but it wouldn't have been as jarring.

 

EDIT: Honestly all that applies to gathering storm as a whole and not just Primaris introduction.

Edited August 15, 2019 by FlamingDeth

[Panzer]

I would have done it as is, but made an effort to introduce cawl sooner. And I'd have at least included hints or what he was up to in some codexes and story books.

^this

[Frostbit3]

I’m in the models just got a rescale with no explanation needed. Gw shouldn’t have to apologize for giving improved sculpts. They have frequently redone lines without people crying badly. Look at the dark eldar as an admittedly bad example. Are the sisters of battle players going to be sad they are getting plastic girls that look better and are more in scale?

[Sete]

Nevermind. Edited August 15, 2019 by Sete

[FlamingDeth]

I think he was responding to other people Sete, I think he was agreeing with you.

[Sete]

Nevermind me, I'm going to sleep. Wow completely misread that.

Keep your sleep in check my dudes

Edited August 15, 2019 by Sete

[Marshal Rohr]

Making Primaris tied to the Heresy era at all is one of its biggest mistakes, like tying the Pharos to the Tyranids, and Maximus Thane to the Siege. The more connections to the Heresy 40k has, the worse the 40k story is because it becomes derivative of the Heresy. The Heresy is its own thing, seperate and ten thousand years before. It shouldn't be connected to 40k at all other than the broadest of strokes. Certainly not loyalist Primarchs and 10,000 year old magos, and Heresy veteran Primaris. Tha'ts so ridiculous it hurt.  

Edited August 15, 2019 by Marshal Rohr

[Brother Tyler]

I've merged today's topic with the same topic from last year.