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What were the Primarchs meant for?

Primarchs Emperor 30k Discussion Lore Fluff Question

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#51
Elzender

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Well, you could argue that Lorgar received the blessings of all Chaos Gods when he travelled to the eye of Terror, and they boosted his psyquic power (well, maybe Khorne didn't :D).

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#52
b1soul

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I think he did

#53
Black Orange

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Is there any lore that specifically states the Emperor intended to kill the Primarchs ?

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#54
Gorgoff

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Is there any lore that specifically states the Emperor intended to kill the Primarchs ?

Nope.
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#55
karden00

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I question whether or not Perty being able to move as though not having been wounded at all is evidence of warp buffing.

When Corax impalas Lorgar it states clearly that while a mortal wound for most, a Primarch could tank it.

As many have said, Pert vs Angron seems to really be a case of one guy knowing exxxacty how to fight another guy. It’s the kind of thing we should really place out of the range of a Primarch.

'Lorgar has his own battles to fight, Erebus,' replied Horus sharply. 'Should he fail at Calth, all this will be for nothing if Guilliman's Legion is allowed to intervene.
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#56
Grieux

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Is there any lore that specifically states the Emperor intended to kill the Primarchs ?

Nope.

The only real suggestion is in First Lord of the Imperium but the tale itself puts under the shadow of doubt all the revelations at its end.

#57
Zuvassin

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Is there any lore that specifically states the Emperor intended to kill the Primarchs ?

Nope.

 

 

*Ahem*

 

In First Lord of the Imperium:

 

Spoiler

 

Also, regarding "which Primarch would win" - this utterly and always misses the point. The Primarchs aren't carbon copies of each other, they each have their own methods of war, their own strengths and weaknesses, and victory is as much about which one (in any given fight) is more successful at determining the setup of the fight. Lorgar is seen as physically weaker and less martial-oriented than most of his brothers, which in turn means they disregard his psychic ability and the ability of him and his legion to sway others (the Word Bearers are, afterall, ultimately responsible for turning Horus but also for their banned and dismissed faith in the God-Emperor winning over the Imperium in the end). Alpharius (and Omega and the possible Third) prefer the use of conspiracies, spies, and long-term operations to achieve their ends, where Angron and Russ can be goaded into their preference for direct immediate fighting over diplomacy or manipulation.

 

If the Heresy had been the machination of subtler or more persuasive legions like the Word Bearers and Alpha Legion, it likely would have gone differently, and perhaps even more successfully, given how likely they would have almost thoroughly corrupted most of the Imperium both locally and on Terra itself prior to any open revolt or warfare took place, while a Heresy led by Russ and Angron likely would have prematurely erupted and been easily snuffed out due to lack of such manipulation or even the time to recruit more allies to even out the odds.

 

So unless such a question is strictly limited to "in a training cage, no weapons, who wins?", just comparing strength or martial prowess isn't really all that meaningful IMO.

 

Also, as to why the "wrong despite being literal RAW" interpretation of Master of Mankind is so popular, IMO it's largely due to the fact that it actually salvages the Emperor as a character. Throughout the first stages of the HH series, the Emperor is fawned over by his Primarchs and the Legions, yet he seems repeatedly and consistently depicted as utterly incompetent in how he handles them.

 

"My son has murder-generators nailed into his brain, was raised a slave, and is utterly loyal to these fellow slaves he's fighting for? Stealing him so he can see them slaughtered in his absence should totally work as a way of getting him back on track as a loyal and motivated son-general of mine".

 

"Given how competitive and prideful my sons are, and how things like Lorgar's religiousity aren't random attributes but things I bred into them, utterly humiliating him and his sons in front of the Ultramarines seems like a motivational strategy with absolutely no chance of backfiring".

 

"Good thing I'm keeping this giant psychic throne a secret from my most psychic son whose very existence I've just decreed is unacceptable at Nikea, can't see this backfiring".

 

"Smart? Check. Inquisitive? Check. Need to expose themselves to the warp to travel the galaxy? Check. This plan of totally denying any entities exist in the warp combined with them clearly having zero exposure ever to the entities that actually do exist in the warp is my most flawless plan yet."

 

On the surface, the Emperor seems incompetent if not outright idiotic. But it feels like a better explanation if this is less "he's a stupid father" and more "he's an impatient master who expected his weapons to be obedient and non-questioning when told to do or not do something".

 

That notion also helps the Custodes as characters too, as instead of this bright shiny totes-unified Imperium that was often hinted at, the notion that the Emperor saw the Primarchs and Legions as (possibly disposable and short term) tools lets them kinda move in as his 'real' sons and the ones he actually does care about. It adds mystery/conspiracy because we as readers know they saw the same setup with the Thunder Warriors and were the ones called on to cull them, and the HH series has made it clear that the Custodes are just as superior to the Marines as they were to the TW, and even knowing that such a cull never happens, it adds a bit of 'what if' spice knowing that the Custodes may secretly know they were intended at some point to help exterminate the Legions.

 

As such, it doesn't strike me as all that odd or unsupportable for people to prefer that interpretation.







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