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Kill Team - Specialisms

Kill Team game

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#1
MasterDeath

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I would like to start a discussion about the specialisms themselves, oddities, possibilities and most important experiences.
 
Oddities:
Some of the specialisms (I will call them "class" from now on) have some abilities and stratagems that seem out of place. I have found so far:
 
Leader - Bold/Inspiring (p. 68)
Bold makes the Leader immune to Nerve tests, Inspiring gives an aura that makes immune to nerve tests. According to rules a model with an aura is affected itself by it. So an inspiring Leader is also immune to nerve tests, making inspiring strictly better. I assume there will be an errata, that will make inspiring do not affect the leader himself.
 
Scout (p. 74, That class is a mess) - Marked position (lvl 2 stratagem)/Vanguard
Both abilities have basically the same effect. Reroll 1s on shooting vs. a model in 6" from the scout. Marked Position costs 2 points and affects one model, Vanguard works on all enemy models in 6".
 
Scout (again) - Quick March (Lvl 1 Stratagem)/Swift
Both abilities allow the scout to reroll advances, so that part of the stratagem is useless, but at least you can 2" to the move value. I assume some kind of errata here, maybe the scout can allow a friendly model to reroll advances with the stratagem.
 
Veteran (P. 76) - Grizzled
Not really something bad, but no penalties to Leadership and Nerve test basically means "Automatically passes Nerve tests" for all models with a leadership of 6+. Maybe there will be abilities in the future, that check leadership without being a nerve test. I think phantasm grenades do that now.
 
And now for an opinion about a class I am really confused about
 
Zealot (p. 77)
Lvl 1: Pretty straight forward here. You get bonus on the charge and can "Death to the fals emperor" on all enemies for cheap. Close Combat class, obviously.
Lvl 2: The stratagem allows either one shooting with a weapon (so full attacks for multishot weapons) or a single Close combat attack. Shooty makes more sense here, but the stratagem is in my opinion to expensive. You have to save up 2 CP in hopes your Zealot goes down. The abilities are a 6+ FNP (We need a FAQ here if that stacks with Disgustingly resilient or not) or a weird debuff aura that forces rerolls on the enemy in a short range.
The obvious close combat class has a stratagem thats better for shooting, a tank ability or a debuff aura. I like the Aura here.
Lvl 3: Now this stratagem is awesome in my opinion. Forcing nerve tests before checking for broken  can really make life hard. Its fight phase again btw. The 6+ FNP leads to more tankyness by modifieing Injury rolls (probably the worst kind of tankyness) or immunity to nerve rolls. The debuff aura leads to +1 leadership aura or reroll all hit rolls in most cases (except mirror matches).
 
Build options for Zealots:
1. Pure melee with Frenzied, Exultant and Puritan. That guy wants to be in the very middle of the enemy squad, debuffing the enemy while dealing melee damage.
2. Countercharge build with Frenzied, Exultant and Rousing and a ranged weapon. More interesting for armies with less then optimal leadership. Helps keeping everyone fighting, can use Martyr if he is taken down and debuff enemies that get to close.
3. Tank build with Frenzied, Flagellant and Strength of Spirit. Maybe something for Grey Knights.
 
The Zealot is a class, thats tries to be many things. Buffer, Debuffer, Melee and Tank. Its interesting, but because its so split, its harder to utilize it than lets say a Sniper.
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#2
Berzul

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So far it seems to me that Sniper is by far the best specialism, with comms as a close second. Specially in non-campaign games.

Reroll 1's to shoot is awesome with any weapon, and the Stratagem of Lv1, combined with Comms's static ability, means you WILL hit, almost no questions asked.

Comms's lv1 Stratagem is also pretty good, providing a boardwide Nerve buff, and whoever is at comms can aid himself in shooting as well.

I do like demolitions too, as it aids low S weapons injure the enemy. Grenades and the like become much better overall. A good placed grenade by a demolitions specialist can wreak havoc in a T3 cluster of units, such as cultists of guardsmen.

This also pairs well with Flamers.

Edited by Berzul, 06 August 2018 - 01:51 PM.


#3
sfPanzer

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In non-campaign games maybe but in campaigns I think Heavy and Combat are among the best as well. Combat simply gives you a ton of attacks and potentially re-roll wound rolls making it extremely likely to take out your target and Heavy gives you tasty stuff like double shooting and giving models you target (just target, not hit!) a -1 to-hit penalty for that phase improving your teams survivability drastically.


Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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#4
Berzul

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For campaigns I believe that Veteran is a solid choice. As a single operative, the benefits of never shaking, moving before the battle starts, rerolling a die per battle round, gaining his own CP for hus Stratagems... Its just a GREAT specialism, if you can level it up

#5
Tonius

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Zealot is also pretty nice in matched play !
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#6
MasterDeath

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I would really like to know how strong these +1/-1 ressource on a 5+ skills are in a campaign. Can a team heaviliy stacking on campaign boni win in the long run over a team with only in game boni? I doubt that there is already experience for this case.

 

Lets go over the Leader now, the class we all have to pick up

 

Leader (p. 68)

lvl 1: The +1 CP per round is obviously powerful and basically says "keep this guy alive as long as you can" or "kill this guy ASAP" depending on the point of view. The Stratagem is interesting, as its for cases were you leader charged into a fight thats already going on. Or if you combine it with "Decisive Strike" you can double dip on the first strike, but thats hard to pull of you need 3 CP. How powerful are these "Decisive..." Stratagems anyway? Has anyone of you pulled a good stunt with them yet?

lvl 2: The oddity. At the moment there is no reason to take "Bold" ever, as inspiring does the same and more. The Stratagem is the same as the lvl 1 one, but for shooting and therefore way easier to use. So far, the leader is not that interesting.

lvl 3: Here we have the first interesting choices and all of them are good. Tactician is the most obvious as more CP are always good. But Mentor can lead to almost guaranteed hits with your Heavy Weapons. Both require Inspiring. On the bold side, we have Tyrant, a leadership reducing aura and in the right Squad it can be very good. Reaver Squads with Coms, Veteran and Tyrant Leader can lower leadership by up to 4. But you have to build your team around that. Paragon is in my opinion the best of the lvl 3 skills (on par with Tactician). a 3" aura were all 1s can be rerolled in the Fight- as well as in the Shooting-Phase. We know from 40K how good that is.

 

Build Options for Leaders:

The CP-Machine with Resourceful, Inspiring and Tactician is the one you will see the most

The Leadership-Debuffer with Resourceful, Bold and Tyrant, should be fun if used correctly

The Lead-from-the-Front guy with Resourceful, Bold and Paragon needs a very tough Leader like Deathguard, Orks or Tyrannids



#7
Berzul

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Great breakdown, MasterDeath.

 

I think that, just as you put it, the Lead-from-the-Front Leader will most likely work best with Deathguard, Orks and Tyranids. Imperium would most likely benefit more from a CP-Machine leader, while a Leadership-Debuffer could go well for any list with a strong CC core, regardless of their actual effectiveness or resillience in battle. You need to get them in, and even in they do not perform amazingly, the debuff itself is the focus, so some flesh wounds will cause mayhem anyway.



#8
Endova

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"Specialisms" is such a weird word. I always thought it was "specializations."

 

Regardless, does anyone else think that it's very odd that none of the Space Marine factions get Medics?


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#9
RandyB

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"Specialisms" is such a weird word. I always thought it was "specializations."

 

Regardless, does anyone else think that it's very odd that none of the Space Marine factions get Medics?

Mechanically, Space Marines have Transhuman Physiology, which keeps them effective that much longer. In lore, Apothecaries are generally few enough in number that they would be more needed in larger battles.

 

Kill Team is, at current, representing a specific skirmish context, "small team in a key side mission during a larger campaign", where the Apothecaries would be otherwise occupied as per the above. Future Kill Team releases will probably (and with Rogue Trader, definitely) introduce other contexts for skirmish battles, still using the same core skirmish rules.


Edited by RandyB, 06 August 2018 - 08:48 PM.

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#10
MasterDeath

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I also miss Medics for the Drukari. I mean there is a Torturer/Interrogator pick in the tree, Thats as Drukari as it gets.



#11
ShotgunFacelift

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Maybe I mis-read the comms specialist lvl1 skill. But I thought he could give it to another model within a certain range?

I thought it a good stacking option to add com specialist to a model and keep him close by to the heavy or sniper specialist.


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Now at some point it became clear that our path had been chosen for us, and we had nothing further to offer this realm. Our options narrowing down to a traitor's due or subservience to the greed of the weak.
So we stepped off the path and went looking for the glory that we knew was looking for us.
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#12
Endova

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"Specialisms" is such a weird word. I always thought it was "specializations."

 

Regardless, does anyone else think that it's very odd that none of the Space Marine factions get Medics?

Mechanically, Space Marines have Transhuman Physiology, which keeps them effective that much longer. In lore, Apothecaries are generally few enough in number that they would be more needed in larger battles.

 

Kill Team is, at current, representing a specific skirmish context, "small team in a key side mission during a larger campaign", where the Apothecaries would be otherwise occupied as per the above. Future Kill Team releases will probably (and with Rogue Trader, definitely) introduce other contexts for skirmish battles, still using the same core skirmish rules.

 

 

I guess I think of it in the context of the old Deathwatch RPG books, where a DW team could have an Apothecary no questions asked.


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#13
Orpheus108

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Maybe I mis-read the comms specialist lvl1 skill. But I thought he could give it to another model within a certain range?
I thought it a good stacking option to add com specialist to a model and keep him close by to the heavy or sniper specialist.


He can, it's within 6" range
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#14
sfPanzer

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Maybe I mis-read the comms specialist lvl1 skill. But I thought he could give it to another model within a certain range?

I thought it a good stacking option to add com specialist to a model and keep him close by to the heavy or sniper specialist.

 

It doesn't say "other friendly model" and the Comms specialist counts as within its own range so he can apply his own buff to himself if you want to. ;)


Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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#15
MasterDeath

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While we are at it:

 

Comms (p. 70)

lvl 1: The stratagem can keep your team from breaking a few rounds longer, for only 1 CP. Very nice for low leadership Killteams. The ability is very good as well as it allows your heavy weapons to hit when its needed. Those Krak Missiles for example.

lvl 2: The stratagem is quiet unique, as it allows you to shoot completely invisible models. Great for those asasssination missions. The ability choice is sadly not very hard. You want more CPs or a one time debuff in melee only? For most teams it will be the CPs.

lvl 3: After the CP ability, you can have even more CP or a battlefield range leadership debuff. I would actually lean towards the debuff, as the CP ability is rather unreliable and shaking a few models here and there can turn games around. After the melee debuff we have an ability that lets you reroll shot numbers for heavy weapons (So a very small selection of weapons) or a campaign ability that gives ressources. If you have one model that uses sjuch a heavy weapon the first ability can be good together with "Scanner" (lvl 1 ability). And I am still unsure about the resource ability. The Stratagem lets you ready a model, but it does not count as stationary, limiting its use. But seems quiet useful for a flamer guy. Advance, ready, burn before retaliation.

 

Build Options for Comms:

The CP-Machine with Scanner, Expert and Command Relay. That guy will probably never shoot as he is way to important to risk him.

The Spotter with Scanner, Static Screech and Triangulator. Put him next to your Heavy/Sniper/Demo in a good position and never move. 

And finally a Debuffer with Vox Ghost. Again, put down, never move, buff other models and never risk him.

 

The Comms Spec is more like a tactical asset. He doesnt kill, as he is too valuable to risk, but he improves everyone else. The question is basically: Can you afford to put one model aside that will only rarely shot? The bigger your Killteam the more affordable. For the Guard, yes sure. For the Grey Knights? Not sure here. Or you put the Comms into a position were he can shot, but as an opponent I would try to take him out ASAP. 


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#16
Knight of Lupus

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I would definitely give your Comms guy a long-range weapon like a Stalker.  I think I might add an Intercessor to my Deathwatch team with that gun as my Comms guy.  With some of those abilities, he's almost a different kind of sniper or assassin.


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Cleave to your training, for heretics speak naught but lies and damnations.  Let thy weapons speak in answer."

#17
Berzul

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Yeah, Comms and Leaders are cleary best served at a distance if you go through their CP building trees.


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#18
MasterDeath

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Demolitionist (p. 71, Demo from now on)

Probably my favorite Class with a nice mix of Combat and Strategic/Tactical boni.

lvl 1: Strategem is top notch. 1 Cp for +1 to wound in ranged is awesome, can be combined with Veterans of the Long War. Plague Grenades wounding Marines on a 3+. And the Ability enhances this further with another +1 to wound for models in cover. To bad there is no obscured in melee, just "intervening terrain".

lvl 2: A clear choice here, Pyromaniac if the model uses an auto-hit weapon, if not Grenadier. But are very solid choices. A Flamer Trooper wth all these to-wound boni and reroll 1s to wound is very dangerous. 9" grenades with reroll 1s to hit is less flashy, but still solid for some of the more interesting grenades or Aux Grenade launcher. The Stratagem is ok, if you have to run your flamer guy up. Again, a FAQ is needed if these ignore wounds stack.

lvl 3: Three Variants of Strategic Boni with  +1 or -1 Materiel or additional traps. For the first still not sure how good they are, need campaign experience to assess that. +1 Booby trap is interesting for mind games. If your opponent knows you have that skill, maybe he will take disarm trap while you take something else, basically costing him his prep phase. And if you take it, more traps, more explosions, its allright. Siegemaster cancels out the penalty to injure rolls from being obscured. The only choice for more killiness here. The Stratagem is interesting if you want to take out high wound models or really want something dead, but be ready to spend another CP for a reroll. You can use it with a Flammer it seems, for Autohit, +1 to wound vs obscured, rerolling 1s and three damage. Only armor can save the poor guy. I do not want to know what the stuff is the flamer guy just loaded.

 

Build Options for Demos:

1. Flamer guy with Breacher, Pyromaniac and whatever you want on lvl 3. Straightforward but needs some toughness to make it through. Useful to counter melee Squads.

2. Grenadier with Breacher, Grenadier and Siegemaster. Interesting for factions with special grenades like plague grenades, photon grenades, maybe Kraks.

3. Basically there is no third build. lvl 3 is whatever you want.



#19
Berzul

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For non-campaign games, I like demolitions as it stacks up bonuses for mortal wounds on weapons that deal them on 6+'s.

For campaign games, I feel that unless you go with a faction that can put a flsmer on a high T model (Death Guard), or one thst can throw grenades at a distance (Adeptud Astartes with Intercessors), it becomes harder to use a demolitions expert.

It has to get to close to be effective...

#20
sfPanzer

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Sniper with demolitions specialism work really well too. You don't even need to level them. Against targets in cover they deal Mortal wounds on a 5+ due the +1 to wound rolls and if you use the Stratagem it's Mortal wounds on a 4+ due another +1 to wound rolls.


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Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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#21
bluntpencil

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Also of note:

 

Veterans with Storm Shields. 3++, which can get boosted to 2++. Need to watch out for Mortal Wounds, though.



#22
Captain Smashy Pants

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Okay, I was reading through the killteam tactics section of 4chan, and I got the impression afterwards that you can takr more than three specialists in roster, but you can only field three at any given time. This seems counter to everything else I've read on the subject and quite frankly sounds like utter bull :cuss . Can anyone confirm either way?

Edited by Captain Smashy Pants, 10 August 2018 - 10:33 AM.

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#23
MasterDeath

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1. You choose a Battleforged Killteam according to the rules on Page 62 (matched play) or 203 (campaign play)

2. These can include up to 20 (matched play) or 12 (Campaign play) models.

3. One of these has to be a leader

4. you can choose three other specialists

5. In campaign play, this is your rooster for the first mission

5. In campaign play you can grow your rooster via Fireteam recruiting p. 205

6. there is no way to recruit new specialists

 

So, no, without House Rules, you can only have 4 Specialists, one of them must be a leader.

 

Edit for clarification: On p. 203 it says, that the campaign rooster is created according to the rules for matched play on P. 62 and this rules only allow 3 specialists + Leader.


Edited by MasterDeath, 10 August 2018 - 11:09 AM.


#24
Captain Smashy Pants

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Thanks for the clarification. I thought it sounded like bull :cuss . Also I saw a video where someone was rolling, names, demeanors and such, and also rolled a dice to see how much territory, material and such he had. This seems rather imbalanced as as soon as one of these resources reach zero you lose the campaign, meaning if I rolled a one I'd be seriously disadvantaged in a campaign, yes? Or am I missing something?
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#25
Brother Tyler

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No, you don't lose the campaign automatically. If you read the rulebook, it spells out ways in which kill teams that lose their resources might manipulate a victory.

As far as rolling names, demeanors, and such, there's no reason that you can't pick your own names or demeanors. There are a lot of tools in the book to help players add character to their kill teams, but these aren't restrictive in nature.

Don't be too quick to judge things negatively until you actually read the rulebook and get a better context on things.
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