Necrosius question: the tainted?

[Bulwyf]

I know the tainted is a warband of death guard. Is this a warband name that we can use for any Death Guard battleforged army? I don't know of any other units with "the Tainted" keyword that his rule would actually apply to. I am assuming you can't use him in that fashion because I don't see other people using him. Adding +1 to hit rolls in Fight would make poxwalkers should have had him in use before the nerf.

 

If his rule only applies to himself about the tainted, has anyone used him? For 10 more points than a plaguecaster you get 3 denials and 3 known spells, can cast 2 and 4++ and a STR 5 plague weapon that with his rule affecting himself means he's hitting on 2+ in Fight phase.

[Prot]

Oh he’s popular enough.

 

I provide him in a few games before a tournament. I know the extra points don’t seem like much, but I have to be honest I prefer the Plaguecaster with his special wooden stick. ;)

I rarely get him in cc but the bonus mortal wounds are nice. They come into play more often than not.

[Bulwyf]

But can you use his +1 in Fight phase to "the tainted" for your DG army? It seems like RAI you just name the warband "The Tainted" and the rule would apply?

[Plaguecaster]

Nope until FW release more in-depth rules for their warbands and chapters they made rules for the only thing he can buff is himself and Mamon who has the tainted as well

You can’t give the tainted keyword to any death guard units since they already have the DG keyword with no option to add any warband / vectorium keyword

 

He does work like a plague surgeon for pox walkers but generally you more take him since he is more of a chaos lord with Psychic powers (with and actual inn save too) plus 10pts cheaper than a plague caster

 

FW may relaease actual war and rules for the tainted etc but unfortunately at this stage it’s just a placeholder keyword which doesn’t affect anything apart from himself really

[Bulwyf]

Nope until FW release more in-depth rules for their warbands and chapters they made rules for the only thing he can buff is himself and Mamon who has the tainted as well

You can’t give the tainted keyword to any death guard units since they already have the DG keyword with no option to add any warband / vectorium keyword

 

He does work like a plague surgeon for pox walkers but generally you more take him since he is more of a chaos lord with Psychic powers (with and actual inn save too) plus 10pts cheaper than a plague caster

 

FW may relaease actual war and rules for the tainted etc but unfortunately at this stage it’s just a placeholder keyword which doesn’t affect anything apart from himself really

 

He's 10 points more than a plague caster. He also has the Death Guard key word as well as the Tainted key word. I'm not sure why honestly it is not possible to simply state your warband is the Tainted to qualify for the key word since it works the same as saying your army is Death Guard or Emperor's Children or Space Wolves or any other legion/chapter.

 

His value to me would be the fact he can know 3 and deny 3 plus he's got 4++ and he's an actually pretty good melee fighter. The rerolls DR on poxwalkers is just like an added bonus for the other things.

[Tokugawa]

He is also Death Guard. His stat is far more superior than plaguecaster's, and deny 3 times,and only cost...10pts more. How could you ask more from 10pts?

[Prot]

Well I remember this when I was trying him and if I recall ‘tainted’ refers to a keyword, so it’s not like a ‘Legion’ keyword. The 7nit has it or it doesn’t.

 

Honestly I just didn’t find it worth 10 points, but he’s definitely in a lot of very good tournament lists. I just found in my testing I never passed the failed FnPs on a 1 with his reroll, but I often got the plaguecasters mortal wound bonus to proc. Try him out in some games, he’s very easy to proxy. But as far as the tainted , I think you’re out of luck. ( if I recall the world Eaters character Zhufor has a similar situation in his war and wording )

[Tokugawa]

Well I remember this when I was trying him and if I recall ‘tainted’ refers to a keyword, so it’s not like a ‘Legion’ keyword. The 7nit has it or it doesn’t.

 

Honestly I just didn’t find it worth 10 points, but he’s definitely in a lot of very good tournament lists. I just found in my testing I never passed the failed FnPs on a 1 with his reroll, but I often got the plaguecasters mortal wound bonus to proc. Try him out in some games, he’s very easy to proxy. But as far as the tainted , I think you’re out of luck. ( if I recall the world Eaters character Zhufor has a similar situation in his war and wording )

Poxwalker is no longer competitive choice after the FAQ, and that "poxwalker" line of text could be read as flavor text. An unit needn't have every single word of their rules useful to be useful.

[Bulwyf]

He is also Death Guard. His stat is far more superior than plaguecaster's, and deny 3 times,and only cost...10pts more. How could you ask more from 10pts?

 

That's what I'm thinking. Even if the Tainted rule doesn't apply to anything but his model in a list he's still better than a regular plaguecaster and only costs 10 points more.

[Prot]

 

Well I remember this when I was trying him and if I recall ‘tainted’ refers to a keyword, so it’s not like a ‘Legion’ keyword. The 7nit has it or it doesn’t.

 

Honestly I just didn’t find it worth 10 points, but he’s definitely in a lot of very good tournament lists. I just found in my testing I never passed the failed FnPs on a 1 with his reroll, but I often got the plaguecasters mortal wound bonus to proc. Try him out in some games, he’s very easy to proxy. But as far as the tainted , I think you’re out of luck. ( if I recall the world Eaters character Zhufor has a similar situation in his war and wording )

Poxwalker is no longer competitive choice after the FAQ, and that "poxwalker" line of text could be read as flavor text. An unit needn't have every single word of their rules useful to be useful.

I’m just answering the original question regarding ‘tainted’. If you don’t line poxwalkers there’s a whole other thread for that

 

I repeat: I personally find the plaguecaster more to my liking after playing both. Regardless of flavour text.

[Bulwyf]

 

 

Well I remember this when I was trying him and if I recall ‘tainted’ refers to a keyword, so it’s not like a ‘Legion’ keyword. The 7nit has it or it doesn’t.

 

Honestly I just didn’t find it worth 10 points, but he’s definitely in a lot of very good tournament lists. I just found in my testing I never passed the failed FnPs on a 1 with his reroll, but I often got the plaguecasters mortal wound bonus to proc. Try him out in some games, he’s very easy to proxy. But as far as the tainted , I think you’re out of luck. ( if I recall the world Eaters character Zhufor has a similar situation in his war and wording )

Poxwalker is no longer competitive choice after the FAQ, and that "poxwalker" line of text could be read as flavor text. An unit needn't have every single word of their rules useful to be useful.

I’m just answering the original question regarding ‘tainted’. If you don’t line poxwalkers there’s a whole other thread for that

 

I repeat: I personally find the plaguecaster more to my liking after playing both. Regardless of flavour text.

 

 

I am honestly curious as to why. Necrosius has 4++, cast 2 deny 3, knows 3, has a rule to help pox walkers and is a better melee fighter. The  plaguecaster costs 10 points less but only casts 2, deny 1 and has no invuln save. He does have the 7+ mortal wound aura when using psychic power but I don't think that is as good for what Necrosius does for only 10 more points. I know you said before you had bad luck with rolls but was that all it was?

[Azekai]

 

 

 

Well I remember this when I was trying him and if I recall ‘tainted’ refers to a keyword, so it’s not like a ‘Legion’ keyword. The 7nit has it or it doesn’t.

 

Honestly I just didn’t find it worth 10 points, but he’s definitely in a lot of very good tournament lists. I just found in my testing I never passed the failed FnPs on a 1 with his reroll, but I often got the plaguecasters mortal wound bonus to proc. Try him out in some games, he’s very easy to proxy. But as far as the tainted , I think you’re out of luck. ( if I recall the world Eaters character Zhufor has a similar situation in his war and wording )

Poxwalker is no longer competitive choice after the FAQ, and that "poxwalker" line of text could be read as flavor text. An unit needn't have every single word of their rules useful to be useful.

I’m just answering the original question regarding ‘tainted’. If you don’t line poxwalkers there’s a whole other thread for that

 

I repeat: I personally find the plaguecaster more to my liking after playing both. Regardless of flavour text.

 

 

I am honestly curious as to why. Necrosius has 4++, cast 2 deny 3, knows 3, has a rule to help pox walkers and is a better melee fighter. The  plaguecaster costs 10 points less but only casts 2, deny 1 and has no invuln save. He does have the 7+ mortal wound aura when using psychic power but I don't think that is as good for what Necrosius does for only 10 more points. I know you said before you had bad luck with rolls but was that all it was?

 

You can't give a Pandemic Staff to Necrosius. If you want empowered smites, a plaguecaster is your man.

[Prot]

 

 

 

 

Well I remember this when I was trying him and if I recall ‘tainted’ refers to a keyword, so it’s not like a ‘Legion’ keyword. The 7nit has it or it doesn’t.

 

Honestly I just didn’t find it worth 10 points, but he’s definitely in a lot of very good tournament lists. I just found in my testing I never passed the failed FnPs on a 1 with his reroll, but I often got the plaguecasters mortal wound bonus to proc. Try him out in some games, he’s very easy to proxy. But as far as the tainted , I think you’re out of luck. ( if I recall the world Eaters character Zhufor has a similar situation in his war and wording )

Poxwalker is no longer competitive choice after the FAQ, and that "poxwalker" line of text could be read as flavor text. An unit needn't have every single word of their rules useful to be useful.

I’m just answering the original question regarding ‘tainted’. If you don’t line poxwalkers there’s a whole other thread for that

 

I repeat: I personally find the plaguecaster more to my liking after playing both. Regardless of flavour text.

 

 

I am honestly curious as to why. Necrosius has 4++, cast 2 deny 3, knows 3, has a rule to help pox walkers and is a better melee fighter. The  plaguecaster costs 10 points less but only casts 2, deny 1 and has no invuln save. He does have the 7+ mortal wound aura when using psychic power but I don't think that is as good for what Necrosius does for only 10 more points. I know you said before you had bad luck with rolls but was that all it was?

 

You can't give a Pandemic Staff to Necrosius. If you want empowered smites, a plaguecaster is your man.

 

 

Basically yes.

 

All I can do is answer from my own experiences. And much of that would come from competitive play... so 10 points is 10 points in competitive play. When I did my testing I played either or, but never both of these characters.

 

What I found was:

 

- Denials: My Plaguecaster / Necrosius is  1) Barely in range of most casts done by good players. IE: They don't cast unless they know you can't deny unless it's about midway through a game. 2) I have a minimum of 3 psykers on the table. My requirement to deny that many times (even if he is in range) is very few and far between.

 

- Smite: I Smite a lot in tournaments. Most of my powers overlap between 2-3 characters, so halfway through a game that Pandemic staff can be a difference maker.

 

- Close Combat: If my Plaguecaster is in close combat, I've definitely done something wrong, or I'm fighting to my advantage. Second to that, the ability to smite, and do another power and take a shot at rolling a 7 or higher on a test and doing 'bonus' mortal wounds in close combat does actually help when I'm stuck in that situation.

 

- DR re rolls: I play a Plague Surgeon a lot in fun games. It's just not worth it. Re-rolling a 1 is okay, but I easily go entire games without converting a single failed 1 into a pass. It happens so often I think they need to rewrite the Plague Surgeon who basically exists for this purpose (it's such a bad rule). Sure for Necrosius it's more like a bonus power, but it certainly isn't selling me on the guy.

 

At the end of the day I never had one of those games where I went "Wow for 10 points this guy is definitely worth it!"  I realize this very well have to do with my lists of preference and I also realize some very successful players use him to great success.

[DemetriiTZ]

Is it possible you overvalue power casts and undervalue smites? Keep in mind, none of the Death Guard powers are "required" -- they're "nice" when they go off, but if the buff doesn't stick, the squad can still perform their role. 3 denies over 1 and aggressively shoving Necro into range of enemy casters could be where the missing "feel" of value is. The ability to know 3 also means you could pick up the three most useful powers -- Miasma, Blades, and Vitality -- and opt for a super-cheap Jumppack Lord for re-rolls, for 74 points.

 

Necrosius is so unbelievably efficient for what he costs -- his re-roll 1's aura is, indeed, a bonus, but you can also make him your Warlord for an ArchContam aura, and shove him into the enemy's face with a massed force of Poxwalkers and Marines -- Typhus is nice in this regard as well, and between the pair of them, that's a LOT of casts and denies.

 

I never considered our casters to be "finesse" casters -- they're more like random buffs who arm-wrestle ENEMY psykers into ineffectiveness. Death Guard are unusual, because their psychic defense is actually fairly incredible considering the amount of denies we can force with a limited number of psykers. The fact that the entire army can ALSO resist Smite wounds is like icing.

Maybe give him another test drive -- tastes change, right? :)

[Azekai]

I have played the Typhus + Necrosius infantry horde, won a brutal game against Guilliman (never again). but Prot plays in a really competitive environment where Death Guard infantry troops aren’t going to accomplish much beyond dying slowly on an objective.

[Prot]

Is it possible you overvalue power casts and undervalue smites? Keep in mind, none of the Death Guard powers are "required" -- they're "nice" when they go off, but if the buff doesn't stick, the squad can still perform their role. 3 denies over 1 and aggressively shoving Necro into range of enemy casters could be where the missing "feel" of value is. The ability to know 3 also means you could pick up the three most useful powers -- Miasma, Blades, and Vitality -- and opt for a super-cheap Jumppack Lord for re-rolls, for 74 points.

 

Necrosius is so unbelievably efficient for what he costs -- his re-roll 1's aura is, indeed, a bonus, but you can also make him your Warlord for an ArchContam aura, and shove him into the enemy's face with a massed force of Poxwalkers and Marines -- Typhus is nice in this regard as well, and between the pair of them, that's a LOT of casts and denies.

 

I never considered our casters to be "finesse" casters -- they're more like random buffs who arm-wrestle ENEMY psykers into ineffectiveness. Death Guard are unusual, because their psychic defense is actually fairly incredible considering the amount of denies we can force with a limited number of psykers. The fact that the entire army can ALSO resist Smite wounds is like icing.

 

Maybe give him another test drive -- tastes change, right?

 

I could go into a lot of detail on this, but it's really not going to resolve anything. 

 

Let me put it this way:

 

- I understand the value of smite. I also understand the value of a free mortal wound if I cast anything on a 7+.

- I don't think Necrosius is a -poor- choice. You have to understand when I was doing the majority of my testing it was against the nastiest stuff you would ever face. I threw up a bunch of my favourite stuff against the ugliest, meta-popular ITC stuff you can think of. At the time ITC just made the shift to 1750. For what I was trying to accomplish Necrosius never moved the needle for me in a list where I needed every point. 

 

This isn't to say he's bad, but in that testing environment for that tournament the value wasn't there. I'd use him in fun games, I'd use him in games with more points, I'd use him with a different list perhaps. 

 

If you check out my ITC tournament thread, I report on all the games, including the ITC GT as well, and a portion of the test games.  You can judge for yourself if not taking him hurt me or not.

 

As a side note his denials mean nothing in the grand scheme. The role of the ground based Sorc in my tournament list was to push outward against fast lists, and get in the Rhino against gunlines. I had TONS of denials on the table. I was never casted more than I had denials for in the entire tournament *unless they were out of range.

 

In a bubble, he's great. I'd use him. And I intend on it again one day.....