Tactical Squad - How To Run Them?

[Fahlnor]

I appreciate our Scouts are probably the best Troop unit in terms of efficiency, with Primaris coming in second. Because my brain gets a little bit bent if my unit choice doesn’t fit neatly into some sort of weird mathematical pattern, however, I’m not keen on taking just Scouts and Intercessors. That means bringing some Tactical Squads.

 

I’m thinking my dual-Battalion list might include three squads of Scouts, two Tactical squads and one Intercessor Squad. The question is, how would you equip the Tactical Squads? Are two extra lascannons worth the added cost of eight extra bolters? Would I be better building them with dual melta/plasma and hopping into Razorbacks?

 

Would be interested in hearing your thoughts.

[Panzer]

I'd go either dual plasma or a lascannon. If you go with a lascannon you should probably take more than just two squads tho.

[Sky Potato]

6 tac squads

 

Squad 1 - Inferno pistol and chainsword on the sgt, Meltagun and heavy Melta

Squad 2 - Plasma pistol and chainsword on the sgt, plasma gun and plasma cannon

Squad 3 - Grav pistol and chainsword on the sgt, Grav gun and Heavy Grav

Squad 4 - Combi-Melta on the sgt, Melta and heavy Melta

Squad 5 - Combi-Plasma on the sgt, plasma gun and plasma cannon

Squad 6 - Combi-Grav on the sgt, Grav gun and Heavy Grav

 

I did umm and ahh over fitting Grav guns over flamers on squad 3 and 6. I might build another couple of dudes up with flamers to swap out with the gravs if I feel like it

[The Unseen]

Don't.

...

 

But if you have to, double plasma/melta in a transport is the closest to decent you'll get.

Buying them a heavy weapon just turns them into a really crappy Dev squad.

If you want to run tactical marines "flavor" wise and your chapter likes heavy fire support, you could run dev squads with 2 heavies as your "tacticals". 2 heavies isn't substatically more deviant than 2 specials, and lots of chapters do that.

[Ekfud]

I still kind of feel like tacticals need a leg up - given the fluff, etc (ie, 60% of your chapter will be tactical dudes) having a reason to put a large number of them on the board seems apt. 

Eg - going battle demi-company in 7th gave you objective secured; or different editions have had cheap/free transports for core troops.

Probably still not enough to sway competition army list builders, but those particular aspects (benefits to transport/mobility or objective seeking) felt right for the role of tacs.

 

I like the command point logic for 8th, but not much incentive to push for tacticals vs cheaper scouts when filling slots.

[Indefragable]

Don't.

...

 

But if you have to, double plasma/melta in a transport is the closest to decent you'll get.

Buying them a heavy weapon just turns them into a really crappy Dev squad.

If you want to run tactical marines "flavor" wise and your chapter likes heavy fire support, you could run dev squads with 2 heavies as your "tacticals". 2 heavies isn't substatically more deviant than 2 specials, and lots of chapters do that.

Pretty much what he said.

 

This edition Tacticals are your less expensive special weapon caddies that fill out Troop slots and fir into Rhinos. Any other role can be done better by other units.

 

Scouts are cheaper, can infiltrate, get more attacks, and for 5pts more can also get 2+ save in cover.

 

Intercessors are hardier, have more attacks, have better basic guns, and can also get 2+ in cover.

 

Or you could just ally in Guard for cheap Battalion bodies.

 

The point being that Tacticals satisfy certain criteria: if you don’t have needs for those criteria, the you dont need them.

[brother_b]

One bro that won a tournament had quite a few tactical squads with las cannons in them. That's the best I've heard of them doing competitively. I don't care about competitive games. Well, I like to win, but I mean tournament style.

 

I think I will add plasma to my tactical's. They'll be a backfield unit in a razorback.

[Fahlnor]

Thanks all for your replies!

 

I'd go either dual plasma or a lascannon. If you go with a lascannon you should probably take more than just two squads tho.

This is pretty much exactly my thinking. I’ve seen lascannon squads used well, but they don’t really fit my army concept. And as you say, I’m not convinced that adding two lascannons is worth it - particularly when I would be paying 180 points to add those two lascannons to the army.

 

Would you consider melta over plasma? For a midfield unit, the range isn’t likely to be an issue and it would make the unit a genuine threat against larger targets.

 

... if you have to, double plasma/melta in a transport is the closest to decent you'll get.

Buying them a heavy weapon just turns them into a really crappy Dev squad.

If you want to run tactical marines "flavor" wise and your chapter likes heavy fire support, you could run dev squads with 2 heavies as your "tacticals". 2 heavies isn't substatically more deviant than 2 specials, and lots of chapters do that.

Again, this seems to be the sensible option for the squad - dual special weapons and jump them into a Razorback. I think the major issue I have with them in that build is that I also play Space Wolves and they can put three specials into a Razorback, which is a little hard to swallow. Which said, my Wolves bring plasma, so maybe a couple meltas in my Blood Angels squads would give me enough variety.

 

One bro that won a tournament had quite a few tactical squads with las cannons in them. That's the best I've heard of them doing competitively. I don't care about competitive games. Well, I like to win, but I mean tournament style.

I think I will add plasma to my tactical's. They'll be a backfield unit in a razorback.

You’re thinking of Lawrence (“the Spider”) from Tabletop Tactics. He won Heat 1 with a list built around five assault cannon Razorbacks, six Tactical Squads with lascannons and Guilliman. But then, he’s a very good player - he also won the first two No Retreat tournaments using a Dark Eldar list in 7th ed., when conventional wisdom at the time said they were a bottom tier army.

 

I’ll have at least one squad of Intercessors backfield, perhaps two - their range is longer than the Tacticals and they will sit on objectives all day long. I see my Tacticals pushing forward into the midfield a bit more aggressively, but I agree that plasma or melta is the way to go.

[Karhedron]

In a dual battalion list, I normally run a 5-man tac squad with heavy bolter and another with missile launcher simply to access the Mortal Wound stratagems for these weapons.

 

My Devs usually pack 3 LCs and 1 PC so do the bulk of the heavy lifting against armoured targets although I have Captain Smash, Mephiston and the DC, all of whom can threaten tanks/MCs very effectively.

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

I am a fluffy, bear and pretzels, type gamer, so I am considering a couple of ten man squads. One with a plasmagun and multi melta, the other with flamer and heavy flamer. If the large squad sizes end up hurting too much with battle shock, then I'll split them into combat squads at deployment and run the two halves in tandem with each other.

[Arkaniss]

Unless I'm really scrimping on points I run full 10 man squads - usually a couple with the 3rd Troop being Scouts. I find 10 Marine squads more survivable and they look better on the table top ;) I generally go through special/heavy weapons as the mood strikes me but lately I've usually run a Lascannon as default as it's D6 Wounds can be very tasty.

 

The only weapon I don't field is Grav but that's because my army is old and I don't have any :P I'll probably get some for completeness at some point.

 

One thing I don't do any more thanks to 8th is stick Power Fists on all my Sergeants - and that's a good thing! I much prefer some variation with a Power Sword or Plasma Pistol, it helps the Tacticals do what they do best which is be a jack of all trades.

[Xenith]

5 Man Las/Plas squads were super powerful in 3rd ed (you could take heavy, special and combi in 5 man units), so powerful that they brought in the rule that you only get the heavy at 10 men which has existed since then, effectively neutering tactical squads. 

 

Now that combis effectively act as a second special weapon, 5 man Plas/plas or melta/melta squads I feel return to being effective, and would build them as such.

 

The last tactical I built was 5 men, melta/combimelta/sword. The next will be Plas/Plas/Sword/axe.

 

For longer range, I'd go combi plas/Las.

[Indefragable]

For what it’s worth, I have personally fallen away from lascannons on Tacticals. I thought it would be an effective way to get Sv2+ Obsec bodies on obj taking potshots at scary things, but I have found that a single unsupported lascannon shot is too expensive and unreliable. And it also makes you hesitant to move your Tacticals, which is half their purpose: to cap objectives. Save the points for lascannons in Devs or such.IMO

 

As a sidenote, you can also get cheaky and run “Devticals.” That’s using Devastators like Tacticals, abusing the :cuss out of their Signum + Cherub. Take a 5man Dev Squad and give the Sgt Combi-plas/melta and maybe take a heavy bolter, plasma cannon, or multimelta. Throw them at the enemy like you would Tacticals, but now you are getting a +1 To Hit Model each turn (and that Turn’s overwatch). A single combi-melta is meh, but a single BS2+ combi-melta that can fire twice once a game and has 4 ablative Wounds is hmmmmm.

[Karhedron]

Devticals are not a bad idea but I generally prefer to run true Tacticals as BAs really need those Troop slots filling as the CPs power most of our heavy hitters. If you have already filled your 6 Troop slots with Scouts/Intercessors and you have points to spare for more warm bodies then Devticals are fine but I usually find I run out of points before I can get around to units like that.

[Shaezus]

Agree with this ^. With las cannon devs, before you know it you can end up putting an unexpected amount of CP rerolls into making them half effective. That or points for captain - lieutenant babysitters. Too unreliable but worst of all a 5 - man dev squad is so squishy to mortal wound things like hellfire and smite. Nothing to add about tacs that hasn't already been said, scouts can be used for missile launches and heavy bolter carriers, with camo cloaks or nay, for less points. I'm personally leaning towards assault for dealing with vehicles / MC, rather than shooting.

[Charlo]

Two 5 Tac Squads:

- Special

- Matching Combi

- Combat Weapon on Sarge

 

Stick both in a Rhino with an Extra Storm Bolter and Hunter Killer - or if you have points, a Razorback each. Or a Drop pod if you're into that.

 

Run a few of them in pairs/ triples ad focus down things. And don't forget about grenades!

 

Tactical squads are very much a "sum of it's parts" sort of deal. The point is if they are "just tacs" and you have other threats, they probably aren't on your opponents mind.

 

The humble Lascannon in a 5 man is, however, pretty nice - especially when you start to have 2 or 3 in cover. You can even build this into the above, taking 10 man squads and including the Lascannon then combat squadding.

[Schlitzaf]

My opanion here; is for armies beside Black Templars and Space Wolves whose themed Tactical Equivalents (Crusaders and Grey Hunters) are amazing, anything you can use Tacticals for, Intercessors are just bluntly better. The only exception is Tacticals in RazorList.

 

Intercessors are better in midfield and comparable Tactical units (double plasma and melee) are 97 points to an Intercessor 94-95 (depending if you take Grenade Launcher). And Tacticals are useless in midfield except as chaff. Because if you are in optimal range (12”) you are in charge range. Were your 4 Bolter and 2 PowSword attack’s in melee won’t do anything.

 

For 90 Point Lascannons, I’d rather use a naked Intercessor squad whom can fight off bully units and be mobile. If you do use Tacticals, they should be Rhino or Razor’d. And you have 20-30 Bodies. Follow the buddy system. Each tactical squad be 10 men or 2 5 men. And yes that does mean you’ll fielding 4-6 squads in Razor/Rhino or 3 Squads*.

 

If you take 3 MSU Tacticals as troop tax they won’t do anything unless all three hit a single target. And just to stress you really need to Rhino/Razor them up to get into position or otherwise.

 

*Contrary to popular belief, 2 5 Man Tacticals is not actually that much better 1 10 man. Because High Point Heavies GravCannon/Lascannon do equivalent damage/wound output to 2 Specials.

[Captain_Krash]

I really like the tri flamer combo. Flamer Pistol on Sgt, Flamer for special weapon, and heavy flamer on the heavy. Great up in your opponents face unit along with a perfect counter when getting charged due to overwatch. I run two squads like this.

 

Krash

[tychobi]

I like 5 with a plasma gun. Sarge with chain sword. Mostly provides mid field interdiction and fills a troop slot.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I've mostly moved to narrative play as of late. My two main 10 man tactical squads are as follows.

10x Tacticals Hand Flamer/Power Sword Serg. 1x Melta Gun 1x Heavy Flamer
10x Tacticals Grav Pistol/Chain sword 1x Plasma Gun 1x Heavy Bolter

These two squads are actually quite fun to field and allow you to combat squad them if needed. Being able to stratagem hellfire shells and having a trusty D3 Damage and a 2D option from the 2nd squad comes in handy. Something I like to do is put the first squad in a Storm Raven or Rhino to make better use of the Heavy Flamer and Melta gun. The hand flamer has its worth also.

I really like heavy bolter tacticals this edition as well as grav cannon variants. Its all how you want to play the game though.

[Spagunk]

My two newer squads, I went with triple flamer (Combi, flamer, heavy flamer) and double plasma (combi, normal), multimelta. The main thing in this decision is that they have similar range profiles or provide a consistent focus. Ideally I'd like to go quad flamer dev squad but I am lacking in heavy flamers and bodies at the moment.

[Semirhagge]

I've been missing the era of my quad flamer Tactical Squads, so I've just been running Combi and heavy flamers in Rhinos or Razors and pushing them up the field. I tend  not to play super competative. Still wish Flamers where 10" range and that drop pods where good again. Or that we had a sweet Landspeeder Tsunami? that could carry Tacicals. Just a small tansport that could fly.

[CCE1981]

Devastator squad with 4x heavy flamers and a combi-flamer. ****Enter joke about propane and propane accessories****

 

It kinda annoys me that Blood Angels do fire better than Salamanders :(

[Spagunk]

But it's quantity vs quality

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

What do ppl think about arming the sarge with a stormbolter