7 replies to this topic

[Jolemai]

1500 point game coming up at the end of August, thought I'd give this a whirl:
 

1500 - Dreadnought List

 

Battalion Detachment

 

 

Captain

~ Master-crafted boltgun, chainsword

~ The Veritas Vitae

 

Lieutenant

~ Hand flamer, chainsword, jump pack

 

 

Scouts (5)

~ Sniper rifle, chainsword

~ Missile Launcher, camo cloak

~ Boltgun (3)

 

Scouts (5)

~ Boltgun, chainsword

~ Shotgun

~ Bolt pistol, combat knife (3)

 

Scouts (5)

~ Boltgun, chainsword

~ Shotgun

~ Bolt pistol, combat knife (3)

 

 

Furioso Dreadnought

~ Storm bolter, heavy flamer, furioso fists (pair)

~ Smoke launchers

 

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought

~ Twin lascannon, graviton blaster, Dreadnought combat weapon

 

 

Spearhead Detachment

 

 

Librarian Dreadnought

~ Storm bolter

~ Smite, Quickening, Wings of Sanguinius

~ Warlord (Artisan of War)

 

 

Mortis dreadnought

~ Twin autocannons

 

Relic Leviathan Dreadnought

~ Grav-flux bombard, meltagun, siege claw

 

Devastators (5)

~ Missile launcher

~ Heavy bolter

~ Boltgun (3)

~ Armorium Cherub

 

Thoughts and options

• 9 CPs with the Vertias Vitae as cover
• Mortis over regular because of points difference
• Lieutenant gear because that's the model I've got
• First Scout Squad looks weird but the theory is once the chaff has gone the missile launcher gets a bonus to his save. Will be camping an objective or somewhere useful, similar to the Devastators
• Devastators have the option of mortal wound shenanigans on either <FLY> or anything with multiple wounds. Scout ML is backup
• Other two Scout Squads are the first wave and push hard at the start. Second wave is the Librarian Dreadnought and Furioso
• Mortis, Contemptor, Leviathan are babysat by the Captain & Lieutenant at first, before the Lieutenant being able to UWoF to where needed later on. I expect this group to push forward either centrally or on a flank, Will need to be dealt with
• Librarian Dreadnought is the Warlord just for Artisan of War. Is there a better choice?
• What am I missing and/or have I covered every base?

C&C appreciated

Edited by Jolemai, 10 August 2018 - 11:37 AM.

[Indefragable]

Why a single shotgun in each Scout squad?


And yea, that mixed sniper, bolt gun, some camp cloak Scout Squad makes my skin itch

[Jolemai]

Why a single shotgun in each Scout squad?


And yea, that mixed sniper, bolt gun, some camp cloak Scout Squad makes my skin itch

 

1. Single shotgun is a hangover from previous editions whereby I followed the 1 in 5 updates rule. Basically at the cost of 1 ATK I improve the shooting capability of my unit which potentially means there's less to chop up in combat (and thus, less retaliatory strikes). I use a similar theory elsewhere (DC have 1 (or sometimes 2) melee upgrades and at least one bolter per five men, as do RAS, etc. There's also the collection restrictions: I only have metal Scouts and have a lot more choppy ones than shotgun ones.
2. Hidden ML (or more often, HB) is a well used tactic. If I had the points, they'd all have camp cloaks and sniper rifles but c'est la vie. It will also annoy my opponent

[Indefragable]

 

1. Single shotgun is a hangover from previous editions whereby I followed the 1 in 5 updates rule. Basically at the cost of 1 ATK I improve the shooting capability of my unit which potentially means there's less to chop up in combat (and thus, less retaliatory strikes). I use a similar theory elsewhere (DC have 1 (or sometimes 2) melee upgrades and at least one bolter per five men, as do RAS, etc. There's also the collection restrictions: I only have metal Scouts and have a lot more choppy ones than shotgun ones.
2. Hidden ML (or more often, HB) is a well used tactic. If I had the points, they'd all have camp cloaks and sniper rifles but c'est la vie. It will also annoy my opponent

 

 

Obviously the rule of "the models I have" always applies, so no complaints there.

 

Has a single shotgun in a 5man Scout squad made a different for you in the past? I get hiding the ML/HB in a Scout squad...no issues there. However, camo cloaks are all or nothing. The rule says:

Hidden Content

"If every model in a unit has a camo cloak, you can add 2 to saving throw made for models in the unit when they receive the benefits of cover, instead of 1."

...so it's better to save the points or bring one for everyone.

 

And like my skepticism around a single shotgun adding much value to a CQC squad, I have doubts about a single sniper rifle really being worth its points. I mean, I have doubts around a single squad armed with sniper rifles, after all.

 

 

Again, if you're stuck with the models you have then bravo for pulling together what you can. And if you have found excellent reliable success sprinkling in a single bolter, shotgun, or sniper rifle into units, then again, all the more power to you. I just speak from my own experience where things like all 3 of those types of weapons really need to be en masse to have any sort of reliable effect at all.

 

Hope this doesn't come off harsh, just providing my own personal critique. Best of luck in your game!

Edited by Indefragable, 10 August 2018 - 07:58 PM.

[Jolemai]

Thanks for posting the rules on camo cloaks as it helps highlight the minor shenanigans I'm pulling. Cloaks can be purchased on a model by model basis meaning I can put one on the model I want to keep. Then, once what I called the "chaff" above (in this case, the bolters and the Sergeant) have gone, the cloak comes into play as every model in the Squad then has one... It's only three points after all.

 

I don't know if a single sniper rifle will do anything of note (fwiw I'm a fan of squads of them), but I've got four points to spare and nought to spend it on (for example, the Lieutenant's wargear is locked in). In hindsight I suppose I could give the Captain a melee weapon for redundancy but as he's babysitting the big stuff he shouldn't see combat...

 

So yeah, that's seven points I can throw elsewhere, but where? I'm basically micromanaging at this point adding stuff in on the off chance it does something - so the same as giving the Captain a melee weapon really. Again, it's the same theory as a single shotgun: I don't require the extra attack in combat so a better shooting chance is my preferred gambit. It looks off but it really depends what you value more: in this case an extra combat knife attack or a better shooting attack. It's likely neither will affect the game but there's a chance it might so place your bets

 

... and no, I don't think you come off as sounding harsh. I asked for C&C after all and you're posting your experiences

[Indefragable]

A BA Captain gets 4A at WS2+ re-rollable  and +1 To Wound (as you know). If there's spare points, I (IMHO) always think it's worth it to give him a CQW whenever possible.

 

Alternatively (depending on your model options) throw storm bolters on Sgts all around, especially the Scouts. 4shots is not a bad lil upgrade for 2pts. Or (for BA specifically) a Power Axe/Sword on Scout Sgts. Suddenly makes the enemy think twice about what this "chaff" unit can do.

 

Or scrounge a bit more and swap the Libby Dread's storm bolter for a melta gun...just a bit extra firepower on a character that can't be targeted. Make solo'ing those Knights all the bit more reliable.

Edited by Indefragable, 10 August 2018 - 07:57 PM.

[Jolemai]

Found the points for a meltagun and here's how the game went

 

http://www.bolterand...ings/?p=5167375

 

I also had another game Vs the Grey Knights at 1k. This required me to strip back the army by losing the Leviathan, Mortis, Libby meltagun, and Sergeant's sniper rifle. I also tossed the Angel's Wing onto the Lieutenant. Report here:

 

http://www.bolterand...ings/?p=5167376

[Jolemai]

Posted for posterity, he's the most recent version of this list (i.e. post CA18 and one I used a few weeks ago):

 

 

1500 - Dreadnought List

 

Battalion Detachment

 

 

Techmarine

Chainsword, hand flamer, servo arm

~ Veritas Vitae

 

Lieutenant

~ Hand flamer, chainsword, jump pack

~ The Angel's Wing

 

 

Scouts (7)

~ Camo cloak, chainsword, sniper rifle

~ Camo cloak, sniper rifle (6)

 

Scouts (5)

~ Chainsword, storm bolter

~ Heavy bolter

~ Boltgun (3)

 

Scouts (6)

~ Chainsword, combi-flamer

~ Combat knife (2)

~ Shtogun (3)

 

 

Furioso Dreadnought

~ Frag cannon, Furioso fist, meltagun

~ Smoke launchers

 

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought

~ Cyclone missile launcher, Dreadnought melee weapon (storm bolter), twin lascannon

 

 

Spearhead Detachment

 

 

Librarian Dreadnought

~ Storm bolter

~ Smite, Quickening, Wings of Sanguinius

~ Warlord (Gift of Foresight)

 

 

Attack Bike Squad (1)

~ Multi-melta (1)

 

 

Mortis dreadnought

~ Twin autocannons

 

Relic Leviathan Dreadnought

~ Grav-flux bombard, meltagun, siege claw

~ Hunter-killer missiles (3)

 

Devastators (5)

~ Storm bolter

~ Missile launcher

~ Heavy bolter

~ Boltgun (2)

~ Armorium Cherub

 

 

Thoughts and options

• 8 CPs due to the two relics
• Despite being more expensive, the Mortis is in over a regular Dreadnought for the Spearhead Detachment "tax"
• Lieutenant gear because that's the model I've got. Will start by the Devastators or the Dreadnoughts and UWoF later if need be...
• Devastators have the option of mortal wound shenanigans on either <FLY> or anything with multiple wounds. Babysat by the Mortis (Wisdom of Ancients)
• Contemptor and Leviathan start together as one threat. Perhaps near the Devastators, perhaps not. Librarian Dreadnought starts here or near it's target. Furioso footslogs a flank, hits the target the Librarian Dreadnought does, or supports the Scouts.
• Snipers do their thing on an objective. The other two Scout squads harass or grab objectives, preferably with Attack bike support (yes he's there to round off the points. Would prefer a better choice but...)
• Librarian Dreadnought is the Warlord but i've switched to Gist of Foresight as he dies far too quickly. Is there a better choice?