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CSM 2000 pts (World Eaters and Black Legion)

world eaters khorne berzerkers khârn dark apostle exalted champion abaddon obliterators

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#1
Khorne Berzerker

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Hey all,
 
If you feel so inclined, please have a look at this 1999 pt army list and let me know if you'd suggest any changes.  Thanks!
 
Battalion Detachment - World Eaters
 
HQ
 
Dark Apostle - Mark of Khorne - Plasma Pistol / Power Maul (The Black Mace)
 
Exalted Champion - Mark of Khorne - Powerfist / Chainsword (Brass Collar of Borghaster)
 
Khârn
 
TROOPS
 
Khorne Berzerkers
  Berzerker Champion - Powerfist/Chainsword
  Khorne Berzerkers (7) - Chainaxe/Chainsword + Icon of Wrath (1)
 
Khorne Berzerkers
  Berzerker Champion - Powerfist/Chainsword
  Khorne Berzerkers (7) - Chainaxe/Chainsword + Icon of Wrath (1)
 
Khorne Berzerkers
  Berzerker Champion - Powerfist/Chainsword
  Khorne Berzerkers (7) - Chainaxe/Chainsword + Icon of Wrath (1)
 
TRANSPORTS
 
Chaos Rhinos x 3 - Mark of Khorne - Combi-bolter/Combi-melta/Havoc launcher
 
World Eaters:
 
* Make an additional attack in the fight phase after a successful charge  (Butcher's Nails)
* Attack again on a 6+ vs Imperium (Death to the False Emperor)
* Re-roll all hits and wounds in the fight phase (Dark Apostle and Exalted Champion, respectively)
* Deny the Witch on one Psychic Power per turn, causing Perils (Brass Collar of Bhorghaster)
* Negate Psychic Power within 24" on 4+ (Scorn of Sorcery - 1 CP)
 
Berzerkers:
 
* Re-roll Charges (Icon of Wrath)
* Pile in, Fight, and Consolidate twice in the Fight phase (Blood for the Blood God)
* Get 1 extra attack (Chainswords)
 
 
Spearhead Detachment - Black Legion
 
HQ
 
Abaddon
 
TROOPS
 
Chaos Champion - Mark of Slaanesh - Autogun
Chaos Cultists x 17 - Mark of Slaanesh - Autogun
 
HEAVY SUPPORT
 
Obliterators x 3 - Mark of Slaanesh - Fleshmetal guns
 
Obliterators x 3 - Mark of Slaanesh - Fleshmetal guns
 
Obliterators x 3 - Mark of Slaanesh - Fleshmetal guns
 
Black Legion:
 
* Re-roll any failed hit rolls (Abaddon)
* Shoot twice (Endless Cacophony - 2 CP)
 
 
How the army will fight: I plan to load the Berzerkers into Rhinos with the DA, EC, and Khârn.  Rhinos will move up the table, using Smoke on Turn 1.  As soon as possible, the Berzerkers and HQs will unload to Charge and Fight, keeping Khârn > 1" away at all times.
 
Meanwhile, I'll teleport Abaddon and the Obliterators on T2 to support the Berzerker Charge.  The Cultists will be used to screen the Oblits or take objectives.
 
QUESTIONS:
 
1. Should I trade out Abaddon for a Chaos Lord in Terminator armor? I'd trade the ability to re-roll hits to re-rolling 1's.
2. Should I go cheesy and take a Sorceror in Terminator Armor to give my Zerkers Warp Time?
3. Are the Cultists useful, or a waste of time?
4. Any other suggestions for improving the list?
 
Thanks for any advice or suggestions.

Edited by Khorne Berzerker, 16 August 2018 - 11:42 PM.


#2
antique_nova

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You can't use the cultists to screen the oblits, because they're not characters. I'm guessing that you're going to use endless tide to transport them, so that they act as a buffer between the charging enemy and the oblits right?

 

Also, chaos oblits are nice. Even I won't leave home without them, but they can be very easily denied the deepstrike areas that they need to get close enough to their targets to shoot their 24" guns. Trust me, that's pretty easy to do and then hold up your bezerkers for one turn, while the opponent readies their own charge. Your bezerkers or whatever charge element you use needs to be far more threatening, enough for the opponent to have to consider throwing everything (even their DS denial units) to stop those zerkers and forgetting about your oblits.

 

You have no psychic defense at all. Any psyker heavy army is going to have a field day against you. Especially, Eldar and Thousand Sons. Those armies are going to make you regret forgoing psychic defense.


Edited by antique_nova, 17 August 2018 - 12:36 AM.

Competitive list builder who lives, breathes and plays in Grand Tournaments.

 

Looking for anyone who is willing to sell their heat 2/3/4 Nottingham GT ticket to me.

 

The one that is sold out in the link below:

https://warhammerwor...and-tournament/


#3
Khorne Berzerker

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You can't use the cultists to screen the oblits, because they're not characters. I'm guessing that you're going to use endless tide to transport them, so that they act as a buffer between the charging enemy and the oblits right?

 

Also, chaos oblits are nice. Even I won't leave home without them, but they can be very easily denied the deepstrike areas that they need to get close enough to their targets to shoot their 24" guns. Trust me, that's pretty easy to do and then hold up your bezerkers for one turn, while the opponent readies their own charge. Your bezerkers or whatever charge element you use needs to be far more threatening, enough for the opponent to have to consider throwing everything (even their DS denial units) to stop those zerkers and forgetting about your oblits.

 

You have no psychic defense at all. Any psyker heavy army is going to have a field day against you. Especially, Eldar and Thousand Sons. Those armies are going to make you regret forgoing psychic defense.

 

Thanks for your comments, antique_nova!

 

My thought with the cultists is if I put them in front of the Obits, it will prevent them from getting charged.  You make a good point about them being denied TP though.

 

How would you recommend making the Berzerkers more threatening?

 

I do have Psychic Defense!  (World Eaters are one of the best anti-psyker factions in the game.)

 

* Deny the Witch on one Psychic Power per turn, causing Perils (Brass Collar of Bhorghaster)
* Negate Psychic Power within 24" on 4+ (Scorn of Sorcery - 1 CP)


#4
antique_nova

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No worries.

 

Here's the thing though, what if the enemy doesn't intend to charge your obliterators, because you're not going to be stupid enough to put them without charge range of the enemy assault units. So, the cultists are wasted. That's the reason why 90% of people would rather or are only able to shoot your obliterators than just assault them and if they are able to assault them (they need quite an expensive unit to stop all 3 oblit squads in one turn), then two things have happened.

 

A: Most of your army is already wiped out and all they need to focus on is your oblits. Which is pretty bad for you.

B. Your opponent really wants your oblits dead and if they are able to assault them after you just landed them, then you placed them poorly. Putting the oblits on high buildings will normally solve this problem however.

 

Ah, I missed the brass collar and your stratagem. That still isn't enough, because you cannot deny a psychic power if you're in a transport as the models inside don't count as being on the battlefield and I think it's safe to assume that your exalted champion will be riding with those berserkers. 

 

For the stratagem, you only get a 50/50 chance to negate 1 psychic power. Against psychic heavy armies or even moderate ones, they are going to have more than one important spell they want to cast per turn. So, basically, you have no real anti-psyker defense.

 

I don't believe you need to make your berserkers more deadly, you need you need to ditch everything in your black legion detachment, except the oblits, for a tzeentch jump pack sorcerer with warptime. Then grab 2 winged daemon princes.

 

However, if you're playing world eaters, then that'll be difficult. So, I created this for you below:

 

Battalion Detachment

2x Winged Daemon Prince - 4x Malefic Talons

1x Exalted Champion - 1x Power fist - 1x Bolt Pistol

7x Berzerker - 6x Chainaxe - 1x Power Fist - 1x Icon of Wrath

Chaos Rhino - Combi Bolter

7x Berzerker - 6x Chainaxe - 1x Power Fist - 1x Icon of Wrath

Chaos Rhino - Combi Bolter

7x Berzerker - 6x Chainaxe - 1x Power Fist - 1x Icon of Wrath

Chaos Rhino - Combi Bolter

7x Berzerker - 6x Chainaxe - 1x Power Fist - 1x Icon of Wrath

Chaos Rhino - Combi Bolter

 

Spearhead Detachment

1x Sorcerer - Jump Pack - Force Axe 

3x Oblits

 

That's 1997 pts.

 

Alternatively, you could swap the 4th berzerker squad for another daemon prince and replace your sorcerer with that daemon prince. So, that both detachments are of the same legion (because 3 rhino squads of berzerkers charging at you is pretty scary) and then relocate the sorcerer to a axiliary support detachment with warptime and watch your opponents squirm.

 

The biggest problem with this list is that I wouldn't expect it to do well in objective games, because when your oblits arrives, they have to either choose to shoot enemy units off objectives or shoot the crucial enemy targets that are preventing your berzerkers from doing what they need to do. So, this list is fun to play with, but competitively. It will get ripped apart in objective games.

 

Also, you need to be careful with those berzerkers in those rhinos. You need to prevent them from being surrounded, because that's the easiest and fastest way to kill them. To prevent that from happening, you should keep the daemon princes hugging the backside of those rhinos (preferably the rhinos on the edge.)

 

However, I know of one tactic that can wipe out almost 2 daemon princes and two rhino's of berzekers (that's 784 pts of stuff for you) in just one assault phase with just 210 pts worth of models and there's nothing you can do about it and I can do it more than once per game. I can also do it pretty reliably, while keeping your obliterators away from most of the action.

 

Actually, now that I think about it. I could actually kill all four berzerkers in their rhinos in just one turn, before you can do anything. Ouch.

 

That's why I don't like Rhinos. Alternatively, you could just grab 50 berzerkers instead of 28 in 4 rhinos, but I can annihilate all that pretty easily in just one turn. (You can too with your obliterators).

 

Hmmmm, my mind kinda flew off, but the point is. If you want a themed fluffy list, then the list I gave you is the best I could do with that, but if you want to do well in tournaments. Take another list, because you won't have much fun playing it.

 

I hope that helps.


Edited by antique_nova, 17 August 2018 - 11:34 PM.

  • Khorne Berzerker likes this

Competitive list builder who lives, breathes and plays in Grand Tournaments.

 

Looking for anyone who is willing to sell their heat 2/3/4 Nottingham GT ticket to me.

 

The one that is sold out in the link below:

https://warhammerwor...and-tournament/


#5
Khorne Berzerker

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Thanks for taking the time to offer that in-depth analysis!  You've given me lots to think about.  I tend to lean towards fluffy vs competitive, but nobody likes to lose with a weak list.  I'm going to read over this again a bunch more times and see what comes of it.  Thanks again.



#6
Khorne Berzerker

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Also, I'd love to hear more about this sneaky 210 pt tactic if you're willing to share!



#7
antique_nova

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Pm'd you.


Competitive list builder who lives, breathes and plays in Grand Tournaments.

 

Looking for anyone who is willing to sell their heat 2/3/4 Nottingham GT ticket to me.

 

The one that is sold out in the link below:

https://warhammerwor...and-tournament/






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: world eaters, khorne berzerkers, khârn, dark apostle, exalted champion, abaddon, obliterators

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