Bloodchild Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Primaris Exclusive Deathwatch Army List (well until they make a Primaris Watch Master i suppose) Pro's and Con's - Due to the lack of unit choices for the Intercessors Squads, their main strength are their Rapid Fire Bolt Rifles and Special Issue Ammunition. Because of this not going first in Turn 1 is really going to hurt this army more than it would if you were fighting with another list, not that the whole battle hinges on you going first, your just going to really feel it should your opponent go first and roll well.There's enough Anti-Tank (plasma in all units) in this army to take on Heavy Enemies. Tactics - Squad 1+2 want to Advance on the enemy and need to be at 12" to make use of Rapid Fire with Vengeance Rounds (use Kraken Bolts if not inside 12" or Hellfire Rounds if clearing chaff) The Aggressors in the unit will negate the effect of -1 to hit when Advancing and firing any Assault weapons. Even though they are advancing, these are shooty units and do not want to be tied up in hand to hand, so the Inceptors will allow you to Fall Back and Shoot should the enemies front line want to go toe-to-toe with you. The Watchmaster, Primaris Apothecary and Primaris Librarian will be supporting Squad 1+2 closely behind. Squad 3+4 will be accompanied by a Primaris Watch Captain respectively and ideally will be moving along the back line, taking objectives and laying down blankets of fire at 36" (the Special Issue Ammunition will be situational for the Intercessors, so choose from turn to turn) The Redemptor Dreadnoughts are placed in a Teleportarium and teleported onto the Battlefield 9" from the enemy. No matter what army your facing there's going to be some sort of heavy at the back, so teleport these in at Turn 2. They have Rapid Fire 2 Storm Bolters which can take Special Issue Ammunition, so make use of those Vengeance Rounds. ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Deathwatch) [70 PL, 1336pts] ++ + HQ + Primaris Librarian [7 PL, 102pts]: Force Sword, Bolt Pistol - *Might of Heroes *Null Zone *Smite Watch Master [7 PL, 130pts]: Warlord - Lord of Hidden Knowledge, Relic - Tome of the Ectoclades + Troops + *Squad 1 Intercessors [15 PL, 297pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher . Aggressor: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers . Aggressor: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers . Inceptor: 2x Plasma Exterminator . Inceptor: 2x Plasma Exterminator . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle . Intercessor Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle, Power sword *Squad 2 ntercessors [15 PL, 297pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher . Aggressor: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers . Aggressor: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers . Inceptor: 2x Plasma Exterminator . Inceptor: 2x Plasma Exterminator . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle . Intercessor Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle, Power sword *Squad 3 Intercessors [13 PL, 255pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher . Hellblaster: Bolt Pistol, Heavy Plasma Incinerator . Hellblaster: Bolt Pistol, Heavy Plasma Incinerator . Hellblaster: Bolt Pistol, Heavy Plasma Incinerator . Hellblaster: Bolt Pistol, Heavy Plasma Incinerator . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Stalker Bolt Rifle . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Stalker Bolt Rifle . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Stalker Bolt Rifle . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Stalker Bolt Rifle . Intercessor Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Stalker Bolt Rifle *Squad 4 Intercessors [13 PL, 255pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher . Hellblaster: Bolt Pistol, Heavy Plasma Incinerator . Hellblaster: Bolt Pistol, Heavy Plasma Incinerator . Hellblaster: Bolt Pistol, Heavy Plasma Incinerator . Hellblaster: Bolt Pistol, Heavy Plasma Incinerator . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Stalker Bolt Rifle . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Stalker Bolt Rifle . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Stalker Bolt Rifle . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Stalker Bolt Rifle . Intercessor Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Stalker Bolt Rifle ++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Deathwatch) [36 PL, 659pts] ++ + HQ + Primaris Watch Captain [6 PL, 98pts]: Power sword, Master-crafted auto bolt rifle & bolt pistol Primaris Watch Captain [6 PL, 98pts]: Power sword, Master-crafted auto bolt rifle & bolt pistol + Elites + Primaris Apothecary [4 PL, 69pts]: Absolver Bolt Pistol Redemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 197pts]: Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, 2x Storm Bolter Redemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 197pts]: Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, 2x Storm Bolter ++ Total: [106 PL, 1995pts, 9CP] ++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 If you drop one Redemptor and find the points for a Repulsor I think it’d help your list a lot . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodchild Posted August 17, 2018 Author Share Posted August 17, 2018 @Black Orange Can be done, i would lose the Vanguard (-1CP) remove x1 Redemptor Dreadnought and remove x1 Inceptor from squad 1+2, that's 315 points saved, i am on 1995 points so i have 320 points in total to take - + Dedicated Transport + Repulsor [16 PL, 320pts]: Twin lascannon, Las-talon, Ironhail Heavy Stubber, 2x Krakstorm Grenade-launcher, 2x Storm Bolter, Storm bolter, Auto Launchers. That's an extra x3 Rapid Fire 2 Storm Bolters that can take Special Issue Ammunition. However now i have 1 too many HQs to fit into the Battalion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjrwaud Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Looks like a really interesting list, very straight forward and likely very effective. Just a word of warning that might come up with your opponents... Vehicles (including dreadnoughts and transports) lack the "Special Issue Ammunition" ability and therefore aren't able to take special issue ammunition... storm bolters for vehicles even have a different point value in the codex to account for that (vehicles = 2 pts / other models = 4 pts). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Might be worth swapping squads 1 and 2 to auto boltrifles so they can still fire after advancing. Ensures you can fire 10 shots of SIA every turn from them even if you advance, but at the cost of -1 AP. Easy trade to make, of course. Just to repeat what mjrwaud said, a Repulsor will not bring SIA - and neither does the Redemptor. Neither data sheet has the special issue ammo rule, sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 @Black Orange Can be done, i would lose the Vanguard (-1CP) remove x1 Redemptor Dreadnought and remove x1 Inceptor from squad 1+2, that's 315 points saved, i am on 1995 points so i have 320 points in total to take - + Dedicated Transport + Repulsor [16 PL, 320pts]: Twin lascannon, Las-talon, Ironhail Heavy Stubber, 2x Krakstorm Grenade-launcher, 2x Storm Bolter, Storm bolter, Auto Launchers. That's an extra x3 Rapid Fire 2 Storm Bolters that can take Special Issue Ammunition. However now i have 1 too many HQs to fit into the Battalion. I have found a Redemptor and Repulsor work well together plus now you’ll have a transport. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCE1981 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 My .02, note I am only semi-competetive, but all the competitive players love playing me to get better. I am not a fan of the Stalker Bolt Rifles, SIA means you can get that -3 ap with Bolt Rifles, read the restrictions on SIA and the statline of the Stalker. The extra 6” range on the Stalker isn’t much especially with good terrain, the Bolt Rifle 30” range + 12” deployment + 6” from SIA is the board. To point out SIA affects on Stalker Bolt Rifles you get the following: +1 to hit units in cover Wound non vehicles on 2+ +6” no AP modifier -6” Range 1 additional AP On Bolt Rifles +1 to hit units in cover Wound non-vehicles on 2+ +6” range 1 additional AP -6” range 2 additional AP I am not sure what the reason for the 2nd watch Captain is for. I would tty to get a fifth T5 guy in squads 1&2, the unit is then T5, just take casualties from the intercessors first. You don’t have where you are putting the Aux Grenade Launcher, suggest putting it in the Sergeant. Careful of bolt pistols they cost 1 pt, I had to rejigger a list because I didn’t buy pistols for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 @Black Orange Can be done, i would lose the Vanguard (-1CP) remove x1 Redemptor Dreadnought and remove x1 Inceptor from squad 1+2, that's 315 points saved, i am on 1995 points so i have 320 points in total to take - + Dedicated Transport + Repulsor [16 PL, 320pts]: Twin lascannon, Las-talon, Ironhail Heavy Stubber, 2x Krakstorm Grenade-launcher, 2x Storm Bolter, Storm bolter, Auto Launchers. That's an extra x3 Rapid Fire 2 Storm Bolters that can take Special Issue Ammunition. However now i have 1 too many HQs to fit into the Battalion. I have found a Redemptor and Repulsor work well together plus now you’ll have a transport. Agreed, though there's one downside since the original intent was to keep the Redemptors in the Teleportarium. They were both protected from anti-tank for a turn and being the only good targets for that firepower meant all your opponent's AT weapons are left without a good target turn 1. With the Repulsor replacing one, there's a slight threat here in that all the anti-tank now has a perfect target, so careful deployment, LOS blocking, or reconsidering the Redemptor Teleportarium plan might be necessary against some armies. Not a make or break issue by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trokair Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 I am also planning a Primaris centric force and aim for a list that will probably be similar. I haven’t played yet, but I am with the others on the Stalker bolt rifles I am also not sure you need that much heavy plasma, maybe have one of squad 3 and 4 go normal plasma instead, and if you can squeeze in a 5th plasma for that squad that would probably work. Random question, the Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, what does it actually bring to the squad. This might be hold over from 7th but I thought that if you throw a grenade you cannot shoot other weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vigitant Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Might be worth dropping some stuff to squeeze in even 2 MSU fortis teams to fit in a second battallion. CP is king.Rapid fire plasma is going to beat out heavy in most situations, imo. And stalker bolt rifles suffer pretty hard, as CCE1981 pointed out.The opportunity to double your output is much stronger than an extra str, especially when we have +1 wound strats. Its too expensive a unit to only be putting out 5 D2 shots and 5 D1 shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodchild Posted August 18, 2018 Author Share Posted August 18, 2018 Hey guys i took on board all of your great advice and shuffled the list Changes - All squads are now 10 man Squad 1+2 gained an Aggressor to bump the Toughness of the unit to 5 Squad 3+4 gained an additional Hellblaster and all weapons are now Rapid Fire (these 2 squads will be pushing up behind Squad 1+2) Decided not to go with the Repulsor as it is the only Heavy target and would definitely be blown off the table Turn 1 (sticking with the Redemptor Dreadnought - Teleportarium strat) 9cp, -1 Armory of the Watch Fortress, -2 Teleportarium = 6cp ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Deathwatch) [78 PL, 1438pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + Armory of the Watch Fortress (+1 Relic) + HQ + Primaris Librarian [7 PL, 102pts]: Force Sword, Bolt Pistol *Might of Heroes *Null Zone *Smite Watch Master [7 PL, 130pts]: Guardian Spear, Warlord - Lord of Hidden Knowledge, Relic - Tome of the Ectoclades, + Troops + *Squad 1 Intercessors [17 PL, 333pts] . Aggressor: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers . Aggressor: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers . Aggressor: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers . Inceptor: 2x Plasma Exterminator . Inceptor: 2x Plasma Exterminator . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle . Intercessor Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle, Power sword *Squad 2 Intercessors [17 PL, 333pts] . Aggressor: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers . Aggressor: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers . Aggressor: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers . Inceptor: 2x Plasma Exterminator . Inceptor: 2x Plasma Exterminator . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle . Intercessor Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle, Power sword *Squad 3 Intercessors [15 PL, 270pts] . Hellblaster: Bolt Pistol, Plasma incinerator . Hellblaster: Bolt Pistol, Plasma incinerator . Hellblaster: Bolt Pistol, Plasma incinerator . Hellblaster: Bolt Pistol, Plasma incinerator . Hellblaster: Bolt Pistol, Plasma incinerator . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle . Intercessor Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle *Squad 4 Intercessors [15 PL, 270pts] . Hellblaster: Bolt Pistol, Plasma incinerator . Hellblaster: Bolt Pistol, Plasma incinerator . Hellblaster: Bolt Pistol, Plasma incinerator . Hellblaster: Bolt Pistol, Plasma incinerator . Hellblaster: Bolt Pistol, Plasma incinerator . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle . Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle . Intercessor Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle ++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Deathwatch) [30 PL, 561pts] ++ + HQ + Primaris Watch Captain [6 PL, 98pts]: Power Sword, Master-crafted Stalker Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol, Relic - Bane Bolts of Eryxia + Elites + Primaris Apothecary [4 PL, 69pts]: Absolver Bolt Pistol Redemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 197pts]: Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, 2x Storm Bolter Redemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 197pts]: Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, 2x Storm Bolter ++ Total: [108 PL, 1999pts, 9 CP] ++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 Looks real great! Still think you'll have a better outcome by giving the Intercessors in squads 1 and 2 auto bolt rifles so you can advance literally everywhere without giving up SIA shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodchild Posted August 20, 2018 Author Share Posted August 20, 2018 @Lemondish, yes i have been going over it, i guess my brain just got fixated that the unit has to get in 18" for good synergies (Kraken Bolts on a Bolt Rifle procs the Rapid Fire at 18" and both the Aggressors and Inceptors fire at 18" as well) which is all well and good, but i guess theres no use Advancing up the table and not firing, only to get to 18" and most of the unit is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodchild Posted August 20, 2018 Author Share Posted August 20, 2018 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Really like this list - good luck with it BC ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 @Lemondish, yes i have been going over it, i guess my brain just got fixated that the unit has to get in 18" for good synergies (Kraken Bolts on a Bolt Rifle procs the Rapid Fire at 18" and both the Aggressors and Inceptors fire at 18" as well) which is all well and good, but i guess theres no use Advancing up the table and not firing, only to get to 18" and most of the unit is gone. You're absolutely right to be focused on the 18'' break point since you're looking at getting your Aggressors and Inceptors into range, and Kraken bolt rifles will double fire here. Just don't forget that you double fire with auto bolt rifles all the time - not just at half range. A bolt rifle firing Kraken SIA gives you two str 4, AP -2 shots at 18'', but an auto bolt rifle firing Vengeance SIA gives you the exact same thing - two str 4, AP -2 shots at 18''. The trade off here is that you get an extra 1-6'' of movement without impacting your shooting, but you don't gain those edge cases of double tap ammo giving you an extra AP. That's something that only happens when you're closer, and you need mobility to actually get closer, so it's a bit of a pickle. Are those edge cases really worth it, especially if you have to give up a round of shooting because you lack the mobility to get everything within 18'' with a standard move? I personally say probably not. But the absolutely most important reason why? I think giant box mags on bolt rifles are super flippin' cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodchild Posted August 24, 2018 Author Share Posted August 24, 2018 Ok, so i played a skirmish with the above list against friend and got soundly beaten. He played Iron Warriors and had a few Havok Squads (Las and M.Launchers) and Chaos Predators. It was his 48" range which withered my units as they charged up, i hit back hard but failed to build momentum, the Redemptors dropped in and did damage but it was not enough. I then asked if i could proxy Squad 4 as a 10man Reiver Squad and played again. Both of us were surprised by the output of the Reivers, 20 Hellfire Rounds, wounding on 2s re-rolling 1s (mission tactic) against his backline infantry. Switched to Vengeance Rounds and helped the Redemptors against the heavies but the Reivers did not last long after their initial strike. Will be taking this army into the store and test it out vs other armies (after i buy/paint some Reivers). The final list is as follows. (although 20 Hellfire Rounds from the Reivers was overkill vs a 5man squad so i probably will split the 10man squad into 2 x5 man squads) ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Deathwatch) [72 PL, 1429pts] ++ Armory of the Watch Fortress (2 Relics) + HQ + Primaris Watch Captain [6 PL, 98pts]: Master-Crafted Auto Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol, Power Sword, Relic - Bane Bolts of Eryxia Watch Master [7 PL, 130pts]: Guardian Spear, Warlord - Lord of Hidden Knowledge, Relic - Tome of the Ectoclades + Troops + Intercessors [17 PL, 334pts] . Aggressor: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers . Aggressor: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers . Aggressor: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers . Inceptor: 2x Plasma Exterminator . Inceptor: 2x Plasma Exterminator . Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol . Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol . Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol . Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol . Intercessor Sergeant: Auto Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword Intercessors [17 PL, 334pts] . Aggressor: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers . Aggressor: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers . Aggressor: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers . Inceptor: 2x Plasma Exterminator . Inceptor: 2x Plasma Exterminator . Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol . Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol . Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol . Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol . Intercessor Sergeant: Auto Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword Intercessors [15 PL, 285pts] . Hellblaster: Assault Plasma Incinerator, Bolt Pistol . Hellblaster: Assault Plasma Incinerator, Bolt Pistol . Hellblaster: Assault Plasma Incinerator, Bolt Pistol . Hellblaster: Assault Plasma Incinerator, Bolt Pistol . Hellblaster: Assault Plasma Incinerator, Bolt Pistol . Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol . Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol . Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol . Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol . Intercessor Sergeant: Auto Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword + Elites + Reiver Squad [5 PL, 124pts]: Grav Chutes . Reiver: Bolt Carbine, Heavy Bolt Pistol . Reiver: Bolt Carbine, Heavy Bolt Pistol . Reiver: Bolt Carbine, Heavy Bolt Pistol . Reiver: Bolt Carbine, Heavy Bolt Pistol . Reiver Sergeant: Bolt Carbine, Combat knife Reiver Squad [5 PL, 124pts]: Grav Chutes . Reiver: Bolt Carbine, Heavy Bolt Pistol . Reiver: Bolt Carbine, Heavy Bolt Pistol . Reiver: Bolt Carbine, Heavy Bolt Pistol . Reiver: Bolt Carbine, Heavy Bolt Pistol . Reiver Sergeant: Bolt Carbine, Combat knife ++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Deathwatch) [31 PL, 565pts] ++ + HQ + Primaris Librarian [7 PL, 102pts]: *Might of Heroes *Null Zone, Bolt Pistol, Force sword + Elites + Primaris Apothecary [4 PL, 69pts]: Absolver Bolt Pistol Redemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 197pts]: Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, 2x Storm Bolter Redemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 197pts]: Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, 2x Storm Bolter ++ Total: [103 PL, 1994pts] ++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 Looks good to me. Good luck ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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