Rate what you Read, or the fight against Necromancy

[cheywood]

Pariah

 

On page 274 Beta discover she is a clone of Alizabeth Bequin! A clone! She doesn’t react. She isn’t shocked. She takes it in her stride and continues with a few pages of setting exposition from Eisenhorn!

 

Where’s the “wait a minute I’m a clone! You mean I am not a real person? I wasn’t born to a mother? I am not who or what I always thought I was? WTAF is going on!!!!”

 

Up to that point in the book so much of her world and all she knew has been turned on its head. She has had a week from hell. But surely THIS revelation would be the icing on the cake that breaks the camels back!

 

I strongly believe we needed another chapter of Beta coming to grips with what this means for her. “I’m a clone!!!”

 

That is a major flaw from Abnett in this book.

 

So for me (weirdly) I give Pariah a 9/10 despite being my favourite Inquisitor series book and possibly my favourite BL book

Personally I think it makes sense that Bequin’s not particularly affected by finding out she’s a clone. Sure, here in the real world where cloning’s uncommon and there’s a strong focus on individual identity it makes sense for someone to care deeply. But in a setting where daemons walk and mankind worships an undying corpse why would being a clone cause a shock? Especially for Bequin, who’s been raised to lose herself in adopted identities.

 

The Imperium also does a lot of cloning compared to the relatively rare use of the technology in the real world. It’s possible cloned children have been normalized in many parts of the galaxy.

Edited March 10, 2021 by cheywood

[DukeLeto69]

 

Pariah

 

On page 274 Beta discover she is a clone of Alizabeth Bequin! A clone! She doesn’t react. She isn’t shocked. She takes it in her stride and continues with a few pages of setting exposition from Eisenhorn!

 

Where’s the “wait a minute I’m a clone! You mean I am not a real person? I wasn’t born to a mother? I am not who or what I always thought I was? WTAF is going on!!!!”

 

Up to that point in the book so much of her world and all she knew has been turned on its head. She has had a week from hell. But surely THIS revelation would be the icing on the cake that breaks the camels back!

 

I strongly believe we needed another chapter of Beta coming to grips with what this means for her. “I’m a clone!!!”

 

That is a major flaw from Abnett in this book.

 

So for me (weirdly) I give Pariah a 9/10 despite being my favourite Inquisitor series book and possibly my favourite BL book

Personally I think it makes sense that Bequin’s not particularly affected by finding out she’s a clone. Sure, here in the real world where cloning’s uncommon and there’s a strong focus on individual identity it makes sense for someone to care deeply. But in a setting where daemons walk and mankind worships an undying corpse why would being a clone cause a shock? Especially for Bequin, who’s been raised to lose herself in adopted identities.

 

The Imperium also does a lot of cloning compared to the relatively rare use of the technology in the real world. It’s possible cloned children have been normalized in many parts of the galaxy.

Good points though not sure I fully agree

 

Does the Imperium do a lot of cloning? Beyond Pariah and the Horus clone I cannot recall many other references (doesn’t mean there aren’t I just cannot remember any)?

 

Even if cloning is a common thing in M41 I still think it odd that discovering you yourself are a clone (at age of 24) would be more of a shock. That has nothing to do with 21st Century viewpoints (maybe it does actually as only lens I can see through).

 

Even if not shocking to Beta then at least some acknowledgement? There wasn’t even a “meh” it simply skirted past with nothing said.

 

Maybe that was the point for Abnett. Beta being a clone IS no big deal but personally I feel there was some interesting dramatic potential lost in that.

 

A big point IS made by the Word Bearers that Bequin died over 100 years before so the fact Beta exists is a surprise to some!

 

Eisenhorn and Ravenor’s Cadres make reference to “how much you look like her (your “mother”)”

 

I found it jarring and a missed opportunity to turn the screw yet tighter on Beta - ie everything you knew was a lie, AND everything you are is a lie!

 

Also you mention daemons. While it appears to vary from author to author, I have always been of the understanding that actual knowledge of the real nature of the warp and of daemons was proscribed. We have had stories (and lore nuggets in codexes etc) of regiments being mind wiped or even whole planets being exterminated due to exposure.

 

So I would argue that knowledge of daemons is rare and certainly not commonplace.

 

Of course there are many inconsistencies. In Pariah Bequin is fully aware of the “War of the Primarchs” and the “Nine who fell” yet in Chris Wraight’s Inquisitor books his Protagonist (an inquisitor based on Terra) is confused when he enters a room with more than nine Primarch statues!

Edited March 10, 2021 by DukeLeto69

[cheywood]

 

 

Pariah

 

On page 274 Beta discover she is a clone of Alizabeth Bequin! A clone! She doesn’t react. She isn’t shocked. She takes it in her stride and continues with a few pages of setting exposition from Eisenhorn!

 

Where’s the “wait a minute I’m a clone! You mean I am not a real person? I wasn’t born to a mother? I am not who or what I always thought I was? WTAF is going on!!!!”

 

Up to that point in the book so much of her world and all she knew has been turned on its head. She has had a week from hell. But surely THIS revelation would be the icing on the cake that breaks the camels back!

 

I strongly believe we needed another chapter of Beta coming to grips with what this means for her. “I’m a clone!!!”

 

That is a major flaw from Abnett in this book.

 

So for me (weirdly) I give Pariah a 9/10 despite being my favourite Inquisitor series book and possibly my favourite BL book

Personally I think it makes sense that Bequin’s not particularly affected by finding out she’s a clone. Sure, here in the real world where cloning’s uncommon and there’s a strong focus on individual identity it makes sense for someone to care deeply. But in a setting where daemons walk and mankind worships an undying corpse why would being a clone cause a shock? Especially for Bequin, who’s been raised to lose herself in adopted identities.

 

The Imperium also does a lot of cloning compared to the relatively rare use of the technology in the real world. It’s possible cloned children have been normalized in many parts of the galaxy.

Good points though not sure I fully agree

 

Does the Imperium do a lot of cloning? Beyond Pariah and the Horus clone I cannot recall many other references (doesn’t mean there aren’t I just cannot remember any)?

 

Even if cloning is a common thing in M41 I still think it odd that discovering you yourself are a clone (at age of 24) would be more of a shock. That has nothing to do with 21st Century viewpoints (maybe it does actually as only lens I can see through).

 

Even if not shocking to Beta then at least some acknowledgement? There wasn’t even a “meh” it simply skirted past with nothing said.

 

Maybe that was the point for Abnett. Beta being a clone IS no big deal but personally I feel there was some interesting dramatic potential lost in that.

 

A big point IS made by the Word Bearers that Bequin died over 100 years before so the fact Beta exists is a surprise to some!

 

Eisenhorn and Ravenor’s Cadres make reference to “how much you look like her (your “mother”)”

 

I found it jarring and a missed opportunity to turn the screw yet tighter on Beta - ie everything you knew was a lie, AND everything you are is a lie!

 

Also you mention daemons. While it appears to vary from author to author, I have always been of the understanding that actual knowledge of the real nature of the warp and of daemons was proscribed. We have had stories (and lore nuggets in codexes etc) of regiments being mind wiped or even whole planets being exterminated due to exposure.

 

So I would argue that knowledge of daemons is rare and certainly not commonplace.

 

Of course there are many inconsistencies. In Pariah Bequin is fully aware of the “War of the Primarchs” and the “Nine who fell” yet in Chris Wraight’s Inquisitor books his Protagonist (an inquisitor based on Terra) is confused when he enters a room with more than nine Primarch statues!

That’s a fair question on cloning. I guess it’s not talked about explicitly very much. I was thinking of the vatborn servants of the Mechanicus and the like as examples of clones. There’s also the Afriel Strain from back in the day.

 

It totally makes sense for Eisenhorn and everyone else who knew Bequin the first to be surprised by Beta. They’re effectively seeing an old friend alive long after her death.

 

You’re entirely right that knowledge of daemons wasn’t commonplace, but I would argue that Bequin’s not a commonplace individual. She knows about daemons before learning she’s a clone if I’m not mistaken?

 

From my perspective the key is that Bequin is nothing like you or me (besides the whole being human thing!). She’s lived a life isolated from her supposed origins, learning to serve from within an endless litany of assumed identities. Her backstory seems relatively unimportant to her, one story among many, (I think at the beginning of the book she says she never went to check her fake parents’ grave) and thus learning it is different isn’t a shock.

Edited March 10, 2021 by cheywood

[DarkChaplain]

I actually concur on your point of criticism. That's one of the things that irk me still.

 

In general, that section where Eisenhorn and Beta have a chat about her being a clone, Alizebeth and so forth feels like it's missing a bit more. I don't recall, for example, her ever actually thinking back to the "mad ravings" of the pontifex, who told her to give a message to "Thorn". She realizes that Eisenhorn is Thorn, but doesn't bring it up on-page.

She doesn't make the connection between Daesumnor  and Eisenhorn's "Daesum" cover name. Here could have been a simple question about the term, which we've seen as far back as Xenos, to create another link between the original Eyclone investigation and the King in Yellow, and how Eisenhorn is playing with fire by taking the term and working under it.

Regarding the clone issue in particular, there are also still potential answers to Alizebeth's body left.

 

I feel like an additional chapter, even a brief one of Beta seeking out her supposed "parents'" grave and finding it empty and as fake as expected, while being shown in a bit of turmoil, would have helped. Right now, I feel like Beta is just.... too adept at taking everything in her stride. It makes me suspicious of her, to be honest.

[DukeLeto69]

@cheywood & @DC

 

I am currently reading Penitent and it seems some of this Beta is a clone thing is kind of being addressed on page 133. Certainly seems that Abnett has deliberately NOT seen the clone thing as an issue for Beta.

 

Personally I don’t like that and feel it needed “something more” an initial shock (like the idea of a visit to the grave) even if she quickly recovers and moves on.

 

Anyway, that is not what Abnett has done and, so far, it is the only thing I don’t like!

 

@cheywood - oh yes vat grown hmmm. I never saw those as “clones” just manufactured “humans” etc Might just be my interpretation but for me a clone is a genetically identical new version of the person the cells came from whereas the vat grown are manufactured (grown) according to whatever task they are required to fulfil (splicing together cells from different sources). Not saying I am right, just that is how I have always seen them.

[cheywood]

@cheywood & @DC

 

I am currently reading Penitent and it seems some of this Beta is a clone thing is kind of being addressed on page 133. Certainly seems that Abnett has deliberately NOT seen the clone thing as an issue for Beta.

 

Personally I don’t like that and feel it needed “something more” an initial shock (like the idea of a visit to the grave) even if she quickly recovers and moves on.

 

Anyway, that is not what Abnett has done and, so far, it is the only thing I don’t like!

 

@cheywood - oh yes vat grown hmmm. I never saw those as “clones” just manufactured “humans” etc Might just be my interpretation but for me a clone is a genetically identical new version of the person the cells came from whereas the vat grown are manufactured (grown) according to whatever task they are required to fulfil (splicing together cells from different sources). Not saying I am right, just that is how I have always seen them.

My copy’s still in the mail so I can’t comment on Penitent yet, but I hope you’re enjoying it!

 

I agree the vatborn definitely aren’t all clones of one another, but I can’t imagine they’re all bespoke either. When it comes to low-grade servitors for instance cloning might be a good way to maintain physical uniformity, enabling easier augmetic installation and ensuring genetic/cognitive compatibility with whatever interfaces their role requires? Obviously gene-splicing could do that as well, but that may very well be a more time intensive process than the average magos biologis can afford.

[DukeLeto69]

Penitent

 

Probably too early to write a review for this. Also not quite the right thread but as we/I did the rest of the series it seems fitting.

 

This is a complex book. It is wonderful and very different to most/all 40k stories. It is written with all of Abnett’s trademark literary style (ie very very well written) and us jam packed with creative ideas (perhaps even too many).

 

It starts slow, which is good. It has plenty of room to breathe and then BANG it takes off and hardly ever slows down again. It almost feels like you are getting hit with a torrent of amazing ideas that twist and change as the story unfolds. Heck Abnett even manages to make maths and numerology interesting at one point!

 

To me, on first read (it DEFINITELY will warrant another read quite soon), it feels a little schizophrenic. It switches back and forth between the familiar action/adventure story of the previous Inquisitor books and a more scholarly essay on the nature of the setting (some of which is pretty deep and mind blowing).

 

Right now I feel similar to how I felt the first time I read Pariah. Like “whoah what was all that, what did I just read?” I knew I enjoyed and liked Pariah on first read but don’t think I loved it. However, with subsequent reads Pariah has become one of my favourite BL books ever. I suspect the same will happen with Penitent.

 

So for now I give it a very solid 9/10 but I fully expect that to go up in future.

[byrd9999]

Blood Rite, by Rachel Harrison.

 

A Blood Angels novella. A decent look at a BA away team member on the verge of the Black Rage.

 

Unexciting and functional, but very well written (as always with Harrison).

 

6/10

 

 

[Rob P]

War of Secrets

 

Put this off for so long.

 

Firstly, it's Phil Kelly. He has a bad press. He favours the war element of the setting and he drags out all of the marketing stuff (i.e. mentions every unit choice and piece of kit to sell models). I personally think he gets the setting pretty well even if he focuses a little too long on things i'm not too bothered about.

 

Secondly, it's Dark Angels and they are almost exclusively run as one trick ponies in 40k - chasing the fallen above all else.

 

Despite my apprehension, I was relatively impressed.

 

There was plenty of grim dark.

It was very up-to-date being on and in the current end time.

There were decent character mixes.

There was intrigue and mystery.

The Dark Angels were ultimately handled well, even if it might be a little distasteful to Dark Angel fans. Same for Tau.

There were a few new (to me at least) lore points.

 

The things I didn't like included the initial portrayal of the Primaris. They were an odd couple to the Dark Angels. It definitely emphasised the two paths that space marines are taken down in the current line - i.e. space knights vs super soldiers. 

 

The 'thing' that happened near the end of the novel was quite strange as well

The Dark Angels deciding not to kill the Primaris felt like it didn't fit - but I am glad it went the way it did

 

I feel i'm slightly too positive about this book (perhaps because I thought it would be rubbish), but i'm giving it a 4/5.

[Fire Golem]

Just finished Helsreach for the first time. It’s pretty good, huh?

[Fire Golem]

Blood and Fire isn’t half bad either. I think this Aaron Dembski-Bowden character might be one to watch...

[Kelborn]

"It's pretty good, huh?" is probably the biggest understatement I've read in a while.

 

Did you read Spear of the Emperor? The Lions do have a scene there, too.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Kelborn

[Fire Golem]

"It's pretty good, huh?" is probably the biggest understatement I've read in a while.

 

Did you read Spear of the Emperor? The Lions do have a scene there, too.

Yeah, I read that when it came out, which made Blood and Fire a bit more emotionally charged.

[Fire Golem]

In all seriousness though, Helsreach was excellent. I finished it over lunch at work yesterday and I’m glad the office was quiet cos I had to dry my eyes a little at the end. It’s been on my list for ages and I found the Armageddon omnibus on a web store recently, so finally got round to it. 

[Paceyjg]

Hi guys, new to this forum, I have been a member of Heresy Online for years where I would post my book scores similar to this thread. However that part of the forum seems to have died off so I was looking for somewhere to continue to do so and hopefully get back into discussion and recommendations of the BL fiction.

 

I thought I would list my book scores, well those that I kept a record of here just to kick off. I wish I had kept a score for all of them as I've read plenty more (hope that works well with this thread).

 

10/10

 

Requiem Infernal 

The Solar War

Daemon World

Pariah

Valedor

Black Legion

The Emperors Legion

Ahriman Unchanged

Ahriman Exodus

 

9.5/10

 

The Master of Mankind

Iron Guard

Spear of the Emperor

 

9/10

 

The First Wall

Slaves to Darkness

Relentless

Lords of Silence

Death of Intergrity

Path of Archon

Vulkan Lives

Ahriman Sorcerer

Predator Prey

Khârn Eater of Worlds

Fabius Bile Primogenitor

The Path of Heaven

 

8.5/10

 

Path of the Outcast

 

8/10

 

The Lost and the Damned

Cult of the Spiral Dawn

Angels of Caliban

Praetorian of Dorn

Lukas the Trickster

Ahriman Exile

Priests of Mars

Aurelian

Blood of Asaheim

Lords of Mars

The Talon of Horus

Fall of Macharius

I am Slaughter

The Siege of Castellax

The Beheading

Deathfire

War without End

Pharos

The Carrion Throne

The Crimson King

 

7.5/10

 

Saturnine

Deathwatch

Wolfsbane

Path of the Seer

Mortis

 

7/10

 

Ahriman Eternal

The Buried Dagger

Heralds of the Siege

Resurrection

Clonelord

Tallarn

Ruinstorm

Mark of Calth

The Greater Good

Path of the Warrior

Scars

Gods of Mars

Damnation of Pythos

Asurman Hand of Asuryan

The Carnac Campaign

Architect of Fate

The Emperor Expects

Throneworld

The Beast must Die

Shadow of Ullanor

Eye of Terror

 

6.5/10

 

Baneblade

Manflayer

 

6/10

 

The Silent War

Old Earth

Renegades of the Dark Millenium

Commissar

The Unremembered Empire

Vengeful Spirit

Dead Men Walking

Legacies of Betrayal

The Last Wall

Watchers in Death

The Last Son of Dorn

Titandeath

 

5/10

 

Seventh Retribution

Redemption Corps

Stormcaller

Silverskulls Portents

Echoes of the Long War

The Hunt for Vulcan

Garro

The Burden of Loyalty (indeed)

Corax

 

3/10

 

Shattered Legions

 

2/10

 

Born of Flame (couldn't be bothered to finish)

Sons of Dorn (awful awful book)

Edited August 15, 2023 by Paceyjg

[DukeLeto69]

Siege of Terra: The Lost and the Damned - Guy Haley

 

For no reason other than just because, after reading SoT: TSW when it first came out in std HB I then stockpiled the next three. Have decided to take the plunge and read books 2-4 back to back in readiness to also buy Mortis.

 

Gotta say I really enjoyed TLATD. Having most of the book from the POV of baseline humans really emphasised the horror they were facing. Being just cannon fodder was very grimdark and fitting.

 

The book was mostly well paced and as usual for me I far more enjoyed the politicking and “quiet moments” to the battles (which in some cases I skim read).

 

Solid book well worth the time and up there with Haley’s best (which for me remains Flesh & Steel from WH Crime imprint).

 

8/10

[DukeLeto69]

@Paceyjg welcome to B&C

 

The Black Library section is less frequented by fellow fraters but we are a nice bunch and will provide hours of entertainment and discourse!

 

Great list but I am a bit perturbed by your lack of Eisenhorn, Ravenor or Gaunt’s Ghosts by Abnett and no Enforcer by Matthew Farrer. Also if you like stuff away from the battlefield check out the Warhammer Crime books by Haley and Wraight.

[Roomsky]

Hi guys, new to this forum, I have been a member of Heresy Online for years where I would post my book scores similar to this thread. However that part of the forum seems to have died off so I was looking for somewhere to continue to do so and hopefully get back into discussion and recommendations of the BL fiction.

 

I thought I would list my book scores, well those that I kept a record of here just to kick off. I wish I had kept a score for all of them as I've read plenty more (hope that works well with this thread).

 

Welcome to the forum! Hopefully it meets your needs and you have a fun time here. 

 

You've also got some spicy takes on your list so I'm excited to hear your thoughts on future reads!

[byrd9999]

Welcome, Paceyjg.

 

All BL discussion is welcome here!

 

Although, you have listed a Ben Counter book at no.1 position, so I don't know if we can be friends. You'll have to do some explaining...

[Vanger]

Hi guys, new to this forum, I have been a member of Heresy Online for years where I would post my book scores similar to this thread. However that part of the forum seems to have died off so I was looking for somewhere to continue to do so and hopefully get back into discussion and recommendations of the BL fiction.

 

I thought I would list my book scores, well those that I kept a record of here just to kick off. I wish I had kept a score for all of them as I've read plenty more (hope that works well with this thread).

 

10/10

Ahriman Unchanged

Ahriman Exodus

9/10

Ahriman Sorcerer

8/10

 

Ahriman Exile

You seem to list the Ahriman books quite high. Care to give a pitch, why someone should pick up the Omnibus and read it?

[Paceyjg]

@Paceyjg welcome to B&C

 

The Black Library section is less frequented by fellow fraters but we are a nice bunch and will provide hours of entertainment and discourse!

 

Great list but I am a bit perturbed by your lack of Eisenhorn, Ravenor or Gaunt’s Ghosts by Abnett and no Enforcer by Matthew Farrer. Also if you like stuff away from the battlefield check out the Warhammer Crime books by Haley and Wraight.

 

Thanks for the welcome! I have indeed read all of the Eisenhorn, Ravenor and some of the Gaunts Ghost. I've also read Enforcer and countless others but I never kept a score of those unfortunately..

Welcome, Paceyjg.

 

All BL discussion is welcome here!

 

Although, you have listed a Ben Counter book at no.1 position, so I don't know if we can be friends. You'll have to do some explaining...

 

Trust me Ben Counter is far from my favourite author but I hold a soft spot for Daemon World! Have you read it? Great stand alone book.

[Paceyjg]

 

Hi guys, new to this forum, I have been a member of Heresy Online for years where I would post my book scores similar to this thread. However that part of the forum seems to have died off so I was looking for somewhere to continue to do so and hopefully get back into discussion and recommendations of the BL fiction.

 

I thought I would list my book scores, well those that I kept a record of here just to kick off. I wish I had kept a score for all of them as I've read plenty more (hope that works well with this thread).

 

10/10

Ahriman Unchanged

Ahriman Exodus

9/10

Ahriman Sorcerer

8/10

 

Ahriman Exile

You seem to list the Ahriman books quite high. Care to give a pitch, why someone should pick up the Omnibus and read it?

 

 

Always more interesting to read about the 'Traitor marines' but I just thought John French did a fantastic job with this trilogy. There are some great show downs, but again I read them all some time ago now.

[Paceyjg]

@Paceyjg welcome to B&C

 

The Black Library section is less frequented by fellow fraters but we are a nice bunch and will provide hours of entertainment and discourse!

 

Great list but I am a bit perturbed by your lack of Eisenhorn, Ravenor or Gaunt’s Ghosts by Abnett and no Enforcer by Matthew Farrer. Also if you like stuff away from the battlefield check out the Warhammer Crime books by Haley and Wraight.

 

I wasn't aware of the Crime books, I've read Kal Jerico and the Necromunda Omnibus, are they similar?

[DukeLeto69]

 

 

@Paceyjg welcome to B&C

 

The Black Library section is less frequented by fellow fraters but we are a nice bunch and will provide hours of entertainment and discourse!

 

Great list but I am a bit perturbed by your lack of Eisenhorn, Ravenor or Gaunt’s Ghosts by Abnett and no Enforcer by Matthew Farrer. Also if you like stuff away from the battlefield check out the Warhammer Crime books by Haley and Wraight.

I wasn't aware of the Crime books, I've read Kal Jerico and the Necromunda Omnibus, are they similar?

No not really. In simple terms:

 

- Necromunda stories are the Wild West in 40k.

 

- WH Crime are detective stories (film noir) in 40k. They are all set on a world called Alecto. If you have read Eisenhorn and Ravenor they are more like that but much lower powered as about standard law enforcement not Inquisitors.

 

Flesh and Steel by Guy Haley

 

Bloodlines by Chris Wraight

 

Both are, IMO, fantastic and a refreshing change from warzone/battlefield stories.

 

Also if you find you enjoy stories in the 40k setting that are not military sci fi then also check out some of the Warhammer Horror titles.

 

Finally it would be highly remiss of me to not recommend anything by Peter Fehervari. I see on your list at 8/10 Cult of the Spiral Dawn. That is probably his most accessible novel, but if you like complex mature fiction in the 40k setting, then give his books a try. Many of us here are BIG/MASSIVE fans.

Edited March 26, 2021 by DukeLeto69

[Paceyjg]

 

 

Thanks for the recommendations. Yes I have read Fire Caste by Peter Fehervari which I remember being a superb book - a 10/10 if I had given it a score. Maybe I'll read it again soon. 

 

I've found my reading has slowed down somewhat, given the hit and miss nature of the HH series. I'm currently on Slaves of Darkness and have all of the others up to Solar War sat on my shelf. I started my HH collection as Mass Market paper backs so have always maintained them as a collection. Draw back is I have to wait extra time for those versions to come out.

 

Also got the following sat here waiting to be read so please feel free to recommend me a good one!

 

Incarnation, Spear of the Emperor, Choose your enemies, Cadia Stands, The Magos, Manflayer, The Hollow Mountain, BC The Great work, The Regents Shadow, Sinners Bounty.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Paceyjg