Angelsforlife6317 Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 Edit** (May have posted this in the wrong thread before hopefully this is the right place). So long story short ive played both these lists against my friends multiple armies over the past couple months and both have done really well. Im just torn between which will perform better. I dont really have time to change anything before this weekend. This is my first ITC tournament ever. I know the rules and played ITC games just never played in offical tournament. If you could choose one or the other which will fair better against the ITC scene. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Here are the two lists. ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [52 PL, 995pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + Gifts of Decay (1 Relic) + HQ + Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Warlord, Wings Typhus [9 PL, 175pts]: 4. Blades of Putrefaction, 5. Putrescent Vitality + Troops + Poxwalkers [6 PL, 120pts]: 20x Poxwalker Poxwalkers [6 PL, 120pts]: 20x Poxwalker Poxwalkers [6 PL, 84pts]: 14x Poxwalker + Fast Attack + Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe ++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [30 PL, 536pts] ++ + HQ + Malignant Plaguecaster [6 PL, 110pts]: 3. Plague Wind, 6. Curse of the Leper + Heavy Support + Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 146pts]: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy Slugger ++ Patrol Detachment (Chaos - Thousand Sons) [24 PL, 464pts] ++ + HQ + Ahriman [7 PL, 131pts]: Glamour of Tzeentch, Prescience, Warptime + Troops + Rubric Marines [7 PL, 113pts] . Aspiring Sorcerer: Force stave, Warpflame Pistol . 4x Rubric Marine w/ Inferno Boltgun: 4x Inferno boltgun Tzaangors [10 PL, 220pts]: Brayhorn, 29x Tzaangor w/ Tzaangor Blades . Twistbray: Tzaangor blades ++ Total: [106 PL, 1995pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe __________________________ ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons) [55 PL, 1069pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + Relics of the Thousand Sons (2 Relics) + HQ + Ahriman on Disc of Tzeentch [9 PL, 166pts]: Death Hex, Glamour of Tzeentch, Prescience Daemon Prince of Tzeentch [9 PL, 180pts]: Helm of the Third Eye, Malefic talon, Warptime, Weaver of Fates, Wings + Troops + Rubric Marines [7 PL, 120pts] . Aspiring Sorcerer: Force stave, Inferno Bolt Pistol, Tzeentch's Firestorm . 3x Rubric Marine w/ Inferno Boltgun: 3x Inferno boltgun . Rubric Marine w/ Warpflamer: Warpflamer Tzaangors [10 PL, 220pts]: Brayhorn, 29x Tzaangor w/ Tzaangor Blades . Twistbray: Tzaangor blades Tzaangors [10 PL, 185pts]: Brayhorn, 24x Tzaangor w/ Tzaangor Blades . Twistbray: Tzaangor blades + Fast Attack + Tzaangor Enlightened [5 PL, 102pts]: Aviarch, 5x Enlightened, Fatecaster greatbows Tzaangor Enlightened [5 PL, 102pts]: Aviarch, fatecaster greatbows, 5x Enlightened ++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [49 PL, 922pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + Gifts of Decay (1 Relic) + HQ + Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Warlord, Wings + Fast Attack + Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe + Heavy Support + Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 146pts]: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy Slugger ++ Total: [104 PL, 1997pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Fair warning: The last ITC event I played my Death Guard in was previous to the new scenarios. I actually think both lists will perform similarly and I think there's a good foundation in both of them, but I wouldn't take either one of them. I don't think the synergy is strong enough to overlap units like Tzaangors = Poxwalkers. They both do extremely similar things. In the first list I feel like you will have better table control because none of those poxwalkers will break.. .BUT they don't do any damage, and are severely limited as per the FAQ Nerf. The second list Tzaangors will break, and typically they are a good screen for Thousand Sons smite spam, but here that is not their role. You have 5 models doing real damage here, and they are better suited to Arch Contaminator. For me this looks like you are asking: Should I take Death Guard, and compliment it with Thousand Sons Psychic abilities? Or should I take Thousand Sons and compliment it with Death Guard flame tanks? I play both of these armies, but not like this. So my opinion is likely worthless other than to say I think Death Guard lays a better ground work for cheaper troops, and tougher units. Thousand Sons are okay at this, but their forte is definitely the Psychic Phase, usually steered by Magnus, and supported by Ahriman. However it does seem to work in a lot of ITC events as a smite farm. I think the question you have to ask yourself is what are you trying to gain from the Thousand Sons aspect... Is it ground control? Is it elite offense (I don't think you have enough of it with Goats on Disks, and one small squad of Rubrics)? Is it just to leverage a better psychic phase? If it's the psychic phase, what are you after there? Perhaps it's worth trimming it down to something very cheap just to get the powers you really want? If you've played these lists against buddies, what's your take on it? Am I wrong in thinking the Tzaangors and Rubrics won't provide much that isn't already in the Death Guard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Agree with @Prot. If you just need TSons bring you better psychic phases, Ahriman + 2DPs may be better choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominikB Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 I do agree with both posts too, also in ITC I’d take the PW in 19/19/16 to stop easy reaper points. DG bulk with 1ksons psychic might and the helm relic sounds nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackTriton Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 I do agree with both posts too, also in ITC I’d take the PW in 19/19/16 to stop easy reaper points. DG bulk with 1ksons psychic might and the helm relic sounds nice They changed the ITC missions, there is no avoiding giving points now, check it out. -Reaper has been changed to 1Pt / 20 model removed during play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelsforlife6317 Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 Thanks for taking the time to reply prot and everyone else. What I had in mind when making the lists was that i wanted a good bit of bodies, the thousand son for the psykers (like you guys thought), and I felt like plagueburst crawlers were just too good not to use in anything deathguard I run. The drones have worked well for me against shooty infantry combining warptime with one for instant pressure and trying to distract away from my mass bodies walking up. In the one list the Tzaangor bomb has caused backside board problems for my friend as well with the 8" charge. The rubrics were added in both lists recently. I felt like I needed a tough unit to sit a objective for hold 1 primary, while I push most of my bodies aggressively up the field toward nearest threat/objective. You may very well be right prot, Death guard are tougher. I may end dropping the tzaangor bomb all together and focus on a supreme command to go along with the poxwalker list. I beat my friend last game with that list. He ran tri aeldari 3 battalion Craftworld/drukhari/harlequins. We landed dawn of war and the flamers really shined. Rubrics held an objective the whole game. While typhus buffed up the 3 units of poxwalkers. Move of the game was actually the Tzaangor bomb that dropped in backfield turn two and flank him while he shot at poxwalkers for 2 turns. Neither list has seen IG or AM, but has beaten tau. I am very confident my mass bodies will have trouble against any long range mass shots. Hope this gives you guys a better idea of the lists and what I was thinking when making them pre ITC. Do you guys think I have a chance at all at beating a tuned IG list or a Imperial knight list or a custodes list? Ps If i had the coin I would probably drop typhus, the poxwalkers, the malignant plaguecaster and fit a battalion of nurgle plaguebearers after the faq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelsforlife6317 Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [52 PL, 977pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + Gifts of Decay (1 Relic) + HQ + Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Warlord, Wings Typhus [9 PL, 175pts]: 4. Blades of Putrefaction, 5. Putrescent Vitality + Troops + Poxwalkers [6 PL, 120pts]: 20x Poxwalker Poxwalkers [6 PL, 120pts]: 20x Poxwalker Poxwalkers [6 PL, 66pts]: 11x Poxwalker + Fast Attack + Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe ++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [30 PL, 536pts] ++ + HQ + Malignant Plaguecaster [6 PL, 110pts]: 3. Plague Wind, 6. Curse of the Leper + Heavy Support + Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 146pts]: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy Slugger ++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons) [26 PL, 487pts] ++ + HQ + Ahriman on Disc of Tzeentch [9 PL, 166pts]: Death Hex, Glamour of Tzeentch, Weaver of Fates Daemon Prince of Tzeentch [9 PL, 180pts]: Diabolic Strength, Malefic talon, Warptime, Wings, Helm of the third eye Exalted Sorcerer on Disc of Tzeentch [8 PL, 141pts]: Inferno Bolt Pistol, Prescience, Temporal Manipulation, Two power swords ++ Total: [108 PL, 2000pts] ++ Maybe this will fair better in a ITC scene? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 I suggest avoid the discman. He is way too weaker than a DP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelsforlife6317 Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 @tokugawa yeah I tried to fit in a 3rd DP but if I do that i cant decide what points to drop any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 @tokugawa yeah I tried to fit in a 3rd DP but if I do that i cant decide what points to drop any suggestions?Make Ahriman walking on foot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 I guarantee you that you’re gonna see a lot of Knights right now. What would be your plan with this list against Knights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelsforlife6317 Posted August 22, 2018 Author Share Posted August 22, 2018 Hmm you know ive never played against knights. I know what they are capable of just havent really had any practice against them. If I was going up against them tonight I would probably be looking to advance my bodies up quick and try to lock them up in close combat before they all get shot off the table. I would deff try to get off some smites to help out my crawlers workload. I guess it really would come down to landing my psychics and landing some big rolls with the crawlers. Prescience will help out my entropy cannons with rerolling ones from DP to start things off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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