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Think Tank: Hypothesizing SW Unit Combo's, Options, Etc.


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#1
Karack Blackstone

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Hello all.

 

Simple run down of a thought in progress thread.

 

1 - What unit options do you like?

2 - What Detachment options can we use, and with a normal hard cap of three for 2,000 points, choose wisely

3 - What combinations of packs, HQ's, WGPL's, (x)PL's, such as, GH or BC PL's, do you plan on?

4 - What will above option hunt? Or, counter?

5 - Transports?

6 - If no rides, Teleport Deep strike?

7 - Do you favor flying or ground transports?

8 - What units do you consider our/your new pillars, or, foundational HQ's and packs in close support?

9 - Remember, all Index Imperium I and Chapter Approved 2017 options that are not in the Codex are still accessible, so, Bikes galore if you want!

 

Have at.

 

Here's mine.

 

1 - I personally love GH's, Rune Priests are going to be terrifying for support powers and utility, WP's continue to make BC's better, and Logan with WGBL, Njal, Bjorn, and Arjac scattered around will really provide great reroll options!

2 - I'm totally unsure, as I tend to play at least 3,000 point games, so, that's not really a normal three detachment setup

3 - 1 WGPL, 1 GHPL, 8 GHPL's, what's going to be 2 PG's, every GH has a Chainsword, the GHPL has a Chainsword, might swap to a Powersword, and the WGPL currently has a SS/PF, because that's what is modeled. I still love WP and BC packs in an LRC, with WGPL, 14 BC's, and a WP.

4 - I tend to favor more all-rounder units, and recently tried to get some more PG bits to make my packs of GH's a bit more capable, overall

5 - Yes, all day, every day. I do play higher points games, so the problem will be what I can squeeze in, and with how tight points will be, wow...

6 - Not really, but, I may have to get used to the idea in 2,000 point games from now on. Still used to the older, "Will not teleport," fluff.

7 - Some of each, but, mostly ground. The problem since the Index and CA 2017 has been keeping rides alive and mobile. RP's will now fix that, somewhat.

8 - RP's are ... a given, now? Way too good, but, with the option to choose powers just before each game, wow, go without RP's at one's own risk! WP's are still great, and really seem to buff BC packs well. WL's are not really an option to me, as, Logan is my chosen WL on the table. As far as WGBL and WGPL options, I think my SS/PF WGPL's will actually become somewhat useful, and a pretty solid threat.

 

WGBL's and WG TDA with TH/SS are going to be painful on the charge, and, my one Spartan with Logan, Arjac, Njal, a WG TDA PL and 8 WG TDA means my five characters can HI all over the place.

 

9 - I may need to see about bikes now, and, some RP's riding around will not only drive my enemy up the proverbial wall, but, bike RP's should really help the utility and support role of my RP's. Going to need to see about WG Bikers and likely some SC Bike packs.



#2
M.Redbeard

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1) I am in love of Wulfen as beatsticks. They hit like a truck and since they have a chance of being wounded of 22% (with the TH) they are resiliant. They are fast, strong and when you manage to get them where theh need to be you oponents are runnign from you. Grey Hunters are my troop unit of choice, and Long Fangs are incresible weapon support, getting better with the codex (woe the foe that lets a LF live since he will become a Lone Wolf and shoot him out of hell). Bjorn is still awesome with twon Las or Assault cannon (and you can uaes his Keen Senses to shoot pesky fliers after moving on a 2+ rerolling 1s) and is a lore beast. Will probably see how my Bike RP fares. Also a Stormwolf is a great unit.

2) the Battalion will be needed, simce we have several good stratagems, unless you want to soup some IG. A supreme command for two or three RP will probably come in handy, if expensive. Spearhead with LF is another nixe option, I use one with LF and Hellblasters. Vanguard with Wulfen, althoigh the Dreads I think we will be seeing less of.

3) I plan to run my standard 3 GH, with plasma, combiplasma/melta (becaise melta is fun, not because it is good). Will maybe ise WGPL TDA as they are a good choice for Lone Wolf too. And it looks awesome. TDA will might be melee for surprise HI.

4) Objective sitting for TDA is a good option, and with Saga of the Wolfkin shooty GH hit like Bloodclaws so clearing chaff. Wulfen can hunt everything in the game aside from flyers where the LF and Hellblasters can provide an excelent antitank.

5) I plan to get a Stormwolf. Fast and delivers a punch. So yes. A few Razorbacks too can be excelent.

6) depending the enemy for the Wulfen, due to rerolling chagre (yes is is less tham 50%, but is still a good option to keeo them out of harm)

7) I really like my Razorback, but the Stormwolf is so much faster, durable and shooty that I will start flying more.

8)WP with Jump Pack for Wulfen (already used him before and a great support). Wulfen of course and Long Fangs. And Bjorn. Because Bjorn is made of win.WGBL here and there will do exclent job too, might even shave a few pointa by goinf Armour of Russ in them. And RP will be awesome, they open up several options

8) If I go with a Stormwilf expect my Bike HQs still enjoy a ride. An advancing and charging WL with TH in a bike will make some awesome problems for more static armies.

Edit: An alternate take on WGPL with TDA. Give him SS and a weapon and sit him and his Packmates on an objective. He will get targeted at one point. If he survives use Lone Wolf. He still is a Troops choice, so he is ObSec, and he is not targetable if you position the rest correctly. See the enemy come at you to dislodge you

Edited by M.Redbeard, 21 August 2018 - 10:01 PM.


#3
Grieux

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My money is on my wolf guard as the spine of my army, 2 units of 5 cataphractii with Njal in TDA and Arjac. With teleport I can decide if I sit on objectives or use them aggressively since they're beasts in melee armed with fist and claw combo (+1 A) and in turn 1 with their cataphractii 4++ and Njal doing the power that grants cover save they're survivable until I charge turn 2.

Then 8 TH wulfen, a wolf priest and a rune priest in a Stornwolf for a guaranteed world of pain.

Then either Bjorn plus 3 cheap msu troops for mid zone control or Bjorn plus long fangs if I use the WG for objectives.
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#4
M.Redbeard

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My money is on my wolf guard as the spine of my army, 2 units of 5 cataphractii with Njal in TDA and Arjac. With teleport I can decide if I sit on objectives or use them aggressively since they're beasts in melee armed with fist and claw combo (+1 A) and in turn 1 with their cataphractii 4++ and Njal doing the power that grants cover save they're survivable until I charge turn 2.

Then 8 TH wulfen, a wolf priest and a rune priest in a Stornwolf for a guaranteed world of pain.

Then either Bjorn plus 3 cheap msu troops for mid zone control or Bjorn plus long fangs if I use the WG for objectives.

I like that combo. A thing Brother. The claw only grants +1 A if you carry two claws. So a PF and LC are not optimal, unless you make some PF and Storm Bolter and some two LC.

#5
L30n1d4s

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One tactic that I think can be quite effective with the new Space Wolf codex is to combine the Saga of the Beast Slayer WL Trait with a Land Raider Excelsior (which is a character, and so is eligible to be the Warlord). With 4 Lascannon shots, a HK Missile, a Multimelta, and 4 x Grav Cannon shots that all hit on BS3+ (with re-rolls to 1 from the LR Excelsior itself) and can wound T7 vehicles on a 2+ with Lascannon/Multimelta/HK Missile (3+ to
wound, +1 for WL Trait) and on a 4+ with the Grav Cannon (5+ to wound, +1 from the WL Trait).

Between all this, you have a very solid chance of killing a basic "Rhino-like" enemy vehicle or monster on turn 1 with just the shooting from the LR Excelsior, in turn "activating" the 6" aura of the WL Trait, which grants all SW units within 6" of the Excelsior +1 to Wound for any attacks
they make against a vehicle or monster. Put another way, this basically gives you a permanent "Kill Shot" effect around the LR Excelsior (minus the +1 damage portion), but without having to pay any CP and with the ability to
buff any unit, not just three Predators.

Against horde/infantry heavy armies, this tactic obviously will not be very effective, but against anything that relies on multiple monsters or vehicles (or even just a few powerful monsters/vehicles, like Imperial Knight lists),
this can be a tremendously powerful WL Trait combination. Additionally, if you really want to go all in with your LR Excelsior as a Warlord, you can
give it the Helm of Durfast Relic, which allows it to re-roll ALL to Hits for shooting (i.e. not just 1s) and ignore any enemy Cover Saves, making the Lascannons, Multimelta, HK Missile, and Grav Cannon that much more accurate
and effective against enemy forces in cover.

Finally, to enhance survivability of the LR Excelsior (and all other SW units clustered nearby to take advantage of its auras), you can use a Rune Priest to cast Storm Caller, granting all SW units within 6" Cover and, if you use the 3CP Stratagem "Cloaked by the Storm," also making them -1 to Hit.

Edited by L30n1d4s, 22 August 2018 - 02:27 AM.

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#6
Axilleas

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I believe our scouts will become excellent Lone Wolf generators. A pack of 5+WGPL w/ cp+fa is extremely cheap and, if you can get him to survive, you'll have a plasma shooting character with rerolls that can HI for additional support of nearby units. I'm playing with a msu Brigade that does this with BC, GH, LF, and Fenrision Wolves to try and generate as many Lone Wolves as I can (I believe the stratagem will be per phase, so you can potentially use multiple times a turn). 

 

In small doses, I think it would be a great complement to almost any army. As a theme for an army as a whole, it probably won't end up being too competitive, but it will be Saga worthy!


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#7
Grieux

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My money is on my wolf guard as the spine of my army, 2 units of 5 cataphractii with Njal in TDA and Arjac. With teleport I can decide if I sit on objectives or use them aggressively since they're beasts in melee armed with fist and claw combo (+1 A) and in turn 1 with their cataphractii 4++ and Njal doing the power that grants cover save they're survivable until I charge turn 2.

Then 8 TH wulfen, a wolf priest and a rune priest in a Stornwolf for a guaranteed world of pain.

Then either Bjorn plus 3 cheap msu troops for mid zone control or Bjorn plus long fangs if I use the WG for objectives.

I like that combo. A thing Brother. The claw only grants +1 A if you carry two claws. So a PF and LC are not optimal, unless you make some PF and Storm Bolter and some two LC.

Oh dang for real? I thought they would since they're both specialist weapons like they do in 30k :(

#8
Gherrick

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Yeah, no concept of specialist weapons in 8e. Gotta do 2 claws for +1A.

#9
Armchairarbiter

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So the way I ran my Wulfen squads was as squads of five. 1 Wulfen pack leader, 2 TH/SS and 2 great frost axes. 

 

Do you guys think the great frost axe still has a place? I think I will just run them as a larger squad with maybe 2 more TH/SS and another axe. Or vice versa. 

 

My current plan is stuff a whole bunch of grey hunters or bloodclaws into 3 rhinos and speed them up the board with a RPw/ jpack following along to provide +1 to save. Rhinos advance, pop smoke, have +2 to their save and -1 to hit. Next round you can probably start the pain train. Follow them with either a landraider or have them follow a Stormwolf packed full of deadly goodies to absorb enemy attention.  


Edited by Armchairarbiter, 22 August 2018 - 05:37 PM.


#10
CCE1981

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Blood Angels get Smaguinious to smash monsters, SpaceWolves get the blender for hordes:

Runes Priest with Jump Pack, Armor of Russ, Ruinic Axe, Muderous Hurricane and Fury of the Wolf Spirits. For 9x Str 5 AP -2/-3 attacks for about 120pts.

Edited by CCE1981, 22 August 2018 - 06:08 PM.

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#11
CCE1981

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Something else that will be fun is using the strategem to place a unit of Hellblasters or Long Fangs “On the Hunt”.

#12
M.Redbeard

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My money is on my wolf guard as the spine of my army, 2 units of 5 cataphractii with Njal in TDA and Arjac. With teleport I can decide if I sit on objectives or use them aggressively since they're beasts in melee armed with fist and claw combo (+1 A) and in turn 1 with their cataphractii 4++ and Njal doing the power that grants cover save they're survivable until I charge turn 2.

Then 8 TH wulfen, a wolf priest and a rune priest in a Stornwolf for a guaranteed world of pain.

Then either Bjorn plus 3 cheap msu troops for mid zone control or Bjorn plus long fangs if I use the WG for objectives.

I like that combo. A thing Brother. The claw only grants +1 A if you carry two claws. So a PF and LC are not optimal, unless you make some PF and Storm Bolter and some two LC.
Oh dang for real? I thought they would since they're both specialist weapons like they do in 30k :(
Yes brother sad to say so but in 8th 40k it does not go that way. Better go with the PF and combi bolters for a bit more of dakka or the LC for melee goodness (get a WL or WP to their side so they reroll everythimg on the melee)

Blood Angels get Smaguinious to smash monsters, SpaceWolves get the blender for hordes:

Runes Priest with Jump Pack, Armor of Russ, Ruinic Axe, Muderous Hurricane and Fury of the Wolf Spirits. For 9x Str 5 AP -2/-3 attacks for about 120pts.

for Hordes I'd recommend saga of the Wulfin and maybe swap the Axe for the Staff. The +2 strength has an advantage over the -2 AP, since it means wounding on 2s against T3 and only hordes of armour 5+ or less care about the extra point of AP (so GEQ, but Orks amd Gaunts care not). Only for going against MEQ the Axe makes sense, amd against MEQ better Living Lightning (more potential wounds amd the possibility to split over) than Murderous Hurricane. For pure blending the Wulfensotne might be better, specially of you use a WL or WGBL on the side with the Armour to give fhe RP rerolls.

Edited by M.Redbeard, 22 August 2018 - 06:24 PM.


#13
CCE1981

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I’ve sen too many players with an uncanny knack to roll 5+ and 6+ saves to rely on dice. It is incredibly diheartening when you get 7 wounds in only for them to roll 6 6+ saves.

I agree about support-wise, the Wolfstone might be better, I was looking at a single model going solo.

I am actually looking at taking multiple Rune Priests, the Space Wolf Psychic Powers all look good, that excel in certain niches.

Saga of the Wolfkin and the Wolfstone are gonna be interesting.

Edited by CCE1981, 22 August 2018 - 06:40 PM.


#14
M.Redbeard

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I’ve sen too many players with an uncanny knack to roll 5+ and 6+ saves to rely on dice. It is incredibly diheartening when you get 7 wounds in only for them to roll 6 6+ saves.

I agree about support-wise, the Wolfstone might be better, I was looking at a single model going solo.

I am actually looking at taking multiple Rune Priests, the Space Wolf Psychic Powers all look good, that excel in certain niches.

Saga of the Wolfkin and the Wolfstone are gonna be interesting.

Let us review horde armies. Tyranids, Orks, Cultists, Daemons and Poxwalker DG all have either invunlerables or are killed by AP-1, with only Orks being T4 so the Staff wounds better. The IG get 6+ saves, and normally a staff will kill more due to wounding on 2+ over their saves (which will happen but they will alos botch a few 4+ on cover saves). That leaves Necron Warrior hordes that have T4 and a 4+. So in general I say the staff is a better option against hordes.

 

And a character going solo the RP isn't that much of a blender. The RP kills aout 5 models in melee. Maybe an extra one if you add a storm bolter in shooting. If the horde is over 12 you get between 2 and 3 more with MH unless you roll hot or is a mob of over 25 models. So he is very good killing about 10 models on a horde. But that is usually less than half of what is coming for you. Wou will need to support him in so way, with other characters, or with Infantry squads, beacuase alone we will be eaten up (you are also relying in 2 WC 7 power to go off the same turn).


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#15
Karack Blackstone

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I’ve sen too many players with an uncanny knack to roll 5+ and 6+ saves to rely on dice. It is incredibly diheartening when you get 7 wounds in only for them to roll 6 6+ saves.

I agree about support-wise, the Wolfstone might be better, I was looking at a single model going solo.

I am actually looking at taking multiple Rune Priests, the Space Wolf Psychic Powers all look good, that excel in certain niches.

Saga of the Wolfkin and the Wolfstone are gonna be interesting.

Let us review horde armies. Tyranids, Orks, Cultists, Daemons and Poxwalker DG all have either invunlerables or are killed by AP-1, with only Orks being T4 so the Staff wounds better. The IG get 6+ saves, and normally a staff will kill more due to wounding on 2+ over their saves (which will happen but they will alos botch a few 4+ on cover saves). That leaves Necron Warrior hordes that have T4 and a 4+. So in general I say the staff is a better option against hordes.

 

And a character going solo the RP isn't that much of a blender. The RP kills aout 5 models in melee. Maybe an extra one if you add a storm bolter in shooting. If the horde is over 12 you get between 2 and 3 more with MH unless you roll hot or is a mob of over 25 models. So he is very good killing about 10 models on a horde. But that is usually less than half of what is coming for you. Wou will need to support him in so way, with other characters, or with Infantry squads, beacuase alone we will be eaten up (you are also relying in 2 WC 7 power to go off the same turn).

 

 

A JP RP backing up a full Skyclaw pack with WGSL as well is 12 models rolling up and tearing something apart in melee, if you can get them all in.

 

I would personally expect that if that is not an option, a small WG JP unit with maybe a RP and optional WP would truly rend things like mad, even if you just give all the WG Chainswords. Bikes remain an option, as well; just check the Codex, then Chapter Approved 2017, then Index Imperium I, and use the most recent entry for Bikes of all types.

 

Which are people favoring of the two options herein:

 

- Skyclaws, 10, WGPL, RP; optional WP?

- Swiftclaws, up to 12, WGPL, RP; optional WP?

 

Yes, this is a bit points intensive; still, if the option can be scaled back to be playable at lower points levels, it seems useful to at least see where each excels...



#16
M.Redbeard

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As I said in the otehr threat the issue is that unless you get a pack of Wulfen for rerolling chagres (and the it is 48% chance and spedning a lot of points) I think transports will be our livelyhood. The 28% of possibility of charge after DS with JP and no stratagems is not worth the points. Swiftclaws running up or BC in Rhino or Stormwolf are going to be our units to hit like a truck in the charge.


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#17
Karack Blackstone

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I still expect the staple of, for me, 14 BC's, 1 WGPL, 1 WP all in either an LRC or Stormwolf, to taste, will be downright lethal. If the Wulfen plus Sky/Swift Claws option is there, is the tax worth it? That's a pretty worthwhile debate...

 

As far as DS with JP, I usually start my BC's on the board to give them better protection, and they can be outriders after a fashion as the Rhinos and LRC's roll up the field. Still, I guess having to run both Sky/Swift Claws and a Wulfen pack to get the most out of them...

 

Hm.

 

Rhinos, Razorbacks, and Land Raiders are all going to be proving themselves very useful in the future, I guess; the problem will be needing outrider RP's either with Bike or JP, and the attached S'Claw type to go with the mode of transport for said RP. Seems like the Wolves' benchmark units are going to be pretty solid. I'm curious about the GH options, too.



#18
M.Redbeard

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I almost always run a pack of Wulfen, so they are not tax for me, but I thinkg Skyclaws are still not great due to the DS restictions. Rhinos, Razorbacks and Stormwolves will be very importat in our armies. Land Raiders probably still suffer from the same issues of being expensive and slow (10" movement is not enough to get us through the board). Swift and Skyclaws might be a fun alternative in some games, but I doubt we will be seeing them too much.

 

And GH with 2 attacks each and better shooting I think are still very good. More allrounders than BC. I would say a sinlge big blob of BC supported by GH for our batallions would be a good way to go. We hav some very good options. I really like the idea of murdering a lot of MEQ with our troops.



#19
Grieux

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Thanks for the Intel! Guess I'll need to make 8 new arms to use in 40k, thanks goodness for magnets!

What would be the best load out for melee Terror on the 4 wg since the thegns already have TH plus bolter?

3x dual claws and 1 chain fist plus heavy Flamer sounds good?

#20
Karack Blackstone

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Thanks for the Intel! Guess I'll need to make 8 new arms to use in 40k, thanks goodness for magnets!

What would be the best load out for melee Terror on the 4 wg since the thegns already have TH plus bolter?

3x dual claws and 1 chain fist plus heavy Flamer sounds good?

 

Dual claws is worth it for every pack, so long as one has enough SS's to weather the rain of enemy fire. TH/SS is a pretty solid tank unit, and TH/SB seems... odd? But, hey, if it works for you, by all means, game on! As far as CF/HF I don't know that one.



#21
M.Redbeard

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Thanks for the Intel! Guess I'll need to make 8 new arms to use in 40k, thanks goodness for magnets!

What would be the best load out for melee Terror on the 4 wg since the thegns already have TH plus bolter?

3x dual claws and 1 chain fist plus heavy Flamer sounds good?

Magnets are a blessing. I say the PF is better than the CF. I really love how the CH looks, but the extra -1 of AP and flat 2 damage do not cost the extra 10 points they cost. It'd say it depends a bit on what you want to do with the WG. Anti, horde the Claws are pretty decent, but if you want to point them at something big, the PF is better.

 

Also unsure that the Tehgn can take TH on 40k, I think they are locked to the same loadout as the normal guys.



#22
vigitant

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Autocannon parking lot with bjorn, a BL, and a rune priest...
>_>

 

JK.

I'm looking at bikes and/or thunderwolf cav/hq's with a rune priest and Death Corps as Midgardians for CP.
Bring back last edition wolfy deathstar with 2+/3++, -1 to hit, lots of attacks(or maybe 6+ FNP), 3+ TH w/ reroll.



#23
Grieux

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Thanks for the Intel! Guess I'll need to make 8 new arms to use in 40k, thanks goodness for magnets!

What would be the best load out for melee Terror on the 4 wg since the thegns already have TH plus bolter?

3x dual claws and 1 chain fist plus heavy Flamer sounds good?

Magnets are a blessing. I say the PF is better than the CF. I really love how the CH looks, but the extra -1 of AP and flat 2 damage do not cost the extra 10 points they cost. It'd say it depends a bit on what you want to do with the WG. Anti, horde the Claws are pretty decent, but if you want to point them at something big, the PF is better.

Also unsure that the Tehgn can take TH on 40k, I think they are locked to the same loadout as the normal guys.

Cool. I'll have to go by with a subpar loadout for now since I'd rather move to a new unit than spend more time in one that is playable. At least with PF/WC i can pick depending on the enemy no?

#24
M.Redbeard

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Thanks for the Intel! Guess I'll need to make 8 new arms to use in 40k, thanks goodness for magnets!

What would be the best load out for melee Terror on the 4 wg since the thegns already have TH plus bolter?

3x dual claws and 1 chain fist plus heavy Flamer sounds good?

Magnets are a blessing. I say the PF is better than the CF. I really love how the CH looks, but the extra -1 of AP and flat 2 damage do not cost the extra 10 points they cost. It'd say it depends a bit on what you want to do with the WG. Anti, horde the Claws are pretty decent, but if you want to point them at something big, the PF is better.

Also unsure that the Tehgn can take TH on 40k, I think they are locked to the same loadout as the normal guys.
Cool. I'll have to go by with a subpar loadout for now since I'd rather move to a new unit than spend more time in one that is playable. At least with PF/WC i can pick depending on the enemy no?
Yes with both you get to pick which one to use. As you have more than one attack you also get to choose what wrapon to use for each attack. So you can use the Clae for both, the Fist for both or one and one.

#25
Grieux

Grieux

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,425 posts
  • Location:London
Thanks mate that makes me feel a bit better lol.
  • M.Redbeard likes this




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