Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Think Tank: Hypothesizing SW Unit Combo's, Options, Etc.


  • Please log in to reply
317 replies to this topic

#301
FearPeteySodes

FearPeteySodes

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,107 posts
  • Location:Minnesota

Now I want to crash my Thunderhawk into enemy lines in a final blaze of glory.

 

My friends on other side of our Adepticon team won a close game in the 11th hour specifically because his Shadowsword blew up and he rolled hot. Gutted the opponent who conceded almost immediately.



#302
TiguriusX

TiguriusX

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,748 posts
  • Location:SF Bay Area
  • Faction: Space Wolves

Now I want to crash my Thunderhawk into enemy lines in a final blaze of glory.

 

That is a legitimate tactic used in competitive play

 

Most commonly used by Knight-Gallants who run into your lines and will be happy to stomp or explode through your lines

 

Some stratagems even let a player auto explode their vehicle


  • M.Redbeard likes this

A digital space wolf returning to the pack and emerging from the warp on the TT to try the hobby side

 

Inglorious Drunkard Champion-Night 3 (2012)

ETL first time participant-2018

ETL_VI_Banner_03_Custos_Fidei_01_.jpg


#303
Karack Blackstone

Karack Blackstone

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,856 posts
  • Location:The Fang, Fenris
  • Faction: Vlka Fenryka

Ah, 40k.

 

Instead of Sacrificial Lambs, we get Sacrificial Slaughter Lambs.

 

Heh. Still, d6 instead of d3 is both a function of the power of a model, as well as a chance to cause more casualties due to larger unit, more shrapnel, explosive potential...

 

Anyway, definitely a Wolfy thing to do when no other solution presents itself! Anyone know if a suicidal charge from a flyer or LRC might result in a parking lot pancake of what shot at it?

 

Edit:

 

Sorry. To be clear, is it possible to declare the charge for a flier into an enemy unit, let it get shot up, if it is going to explode, preferrably with nothing in it, can it be then crashed into the enemy's ranks? If it has passengers, and it's a 6 on a d6, followed by d6 mortal wounds, with that many models facing an, "On a 1 on a d6, the model is slain." Do people think what I am willing to call the Hostile Assault Delivery Method, HADM (not intended, but funny!)

 

Meh. Movement phase, hover, pile out the troops inside. Psychic phase, do shenanigans. Shooting phase, more shenanigans. Assault phase, send in the flier first, especially if it lacks a large number of wounds. If in hover or at the lowest value of movement, either way, it's 20" (twenty inches).

 

Is this a viable tactic? Please, by all means, pick this one apart! It's worth it just for the sheer middle finger to the enemy's face tactic it is, and the Wolves would certainly do it if the need arose!


Edited by Karack Blackstone, 14 September 2018 - 11:45 PM.

  • TiguriusX likes this

#304
FearPeteySodes

FearPeteySodes

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,107 posts
  • Location:Minnesota
Nah I do it, they have to have a lot of firepower to take out the stormwolf AND the wulfen inside. My load has been 5 wulfen, 5 bloodclaws and a wolfpriest. If it’s wrecked any 1’s will remove he bloodclaws and even if they get lucky and kill the boat and wulfen I’m sure it means the rest of the force is ok.

That’s why I mused about trailing the thing with a JPRP for cover and possibly cloak. It has too many guns and awesomeness to intentionally run it into death but sometimes you have tosince the wulfen are typically going against the hard crunchy parts.

#305
Sturm Moonwolf

Sturm Moonwolf

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 408 posts
  • Location:Jacksonville

When my fliers get beat up I try to manuever them close to the enemy so I can drop to hover mode, charge, and hope for an explosion. I run 3 in an air wing (2 stormfangs and 1 Stormwolf) so I get some pretty spectacular results from time to time.

 

Someone mentioned about using the cloak earlier, yes, it works very well. I try to avoid using it too much though due to the high cp cost however as my 2k list only has 9cps. Getting a tempest wrath off on my opponents key shooter is just a better way to do it overall imo.



#306
Kallas

Kallas

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 507 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh, UK
  • Faction: Howling Griffons

Getting a tempest wrath off on my opponents key shooter is just a better way to do it overall imo.


Why not both! :D

#307
Kallas

Kallas

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 507 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh, UK
  • Faction: Howling Griffons

My current list is running a lot of small units working in unison:

Spoiler

 

So in my previous post (above) I was planning to use a list based around a core of multiple small squads of basic Grey Hunters with specialised units (Bjorn, Wolf Lord, Battle Leaders, etc) for tackling various units.

 

On Saturday I got to play a game against Dark Eldar:

Spoiler

 

We were using ITC Missions, and we rolled and got Mission 5: Precious Cargo with Frontline Assault deployment.

 
Space Wolf Secondaries:
Big Game Hunter (those Ravagers need to go down ASAP, so might as well get points for them!)
Butcher's Bill (there's a lot of relatively fragile units that I figure that I can smash apart in sequence, so hopefully achievable)
Old School (a couple of small objective squatting Wych squads should give me First Strike easily; his Warlord is important to bring down and will be near the Ravagers so should be fairly easy to reach; Linebreaker and Last Strike depend on how the game goes, but I believe I have the resilience to last until the end)
 
Dark Eldar Secondaries:
Headhunter (lots of characters so a clear choice)
Big Game Hunter (Rhinos and Razorbacks, plus possibly Bjorn, so a good choice)
Recon (super fast army that likes to spread out, another solid choice)
 
Deployment happens and I get the +1 thanks to my transports (all Grey Hunters embarked just in case I lose the roll). My list is deployed mostly central with my characters all central and near to my Razorbacks to protect from any potential melee tying up; Inceptors in Deep Strike. He deploys reasonably widely spread, Ravagers around his Black Heart Warlord and with the big Wych blob in the Webway.
 
I snag first turn, thanks to the +1 (we both rolled a 6!) and he fails to seize.
 
Space Wolves T1
Spoiler
 
Dark Eldar T1
Spoiler
 
Space Wolves T2
Spoiler
 
Dark Eldar T2
Spoiler
 
Space Wolves T3
Spoiler
 
Dark Eldar T3
Spoiler

 

So, after game thoughts:

  • I got pumped: HARD. Seriously, what the censored.gif were they thinking making Disintegrator Ravagers that good for that cheap?! I mean, I'm sure they're going to get toned down soon, but still! They are ridiculously effective!
  • Anyway, back to Space Wolves stuff: the characters are pretty awesome and lethal. Although overall they didn't actually make their points back, and didn't actually achieve much in total they are still a scary group. They can smash through vehicles well and are respectively tough. They did go down pretty easily once they were properly exposed, which is an issue (at the end of the day they're still only T4/3++) but they put the fear of Russ into the opponent. Against appropriately costed units they'll probably be fine.
  • Bjorn was solid; he took many Blaster shots over the game, but his 5+ FNP was great (helped by my opponent's low damage rolls) and he was easily pumping out 5 wounding hits each fight phase (even if his damage rolls let me down a bit). His Twin Lascannon was quite disappointing, but he did only fire it twice (and also rolled badly).
  • Grey Hunters...eh. They're still Marines so they die far too quickly, but they have a decent output for 65pts. When they got a good target like the Wych blob they did good work (I think they killed 8 to Bjorn's 4) and if they hadn't been blown up by the Razorback there was a good chance that they'd have weathered the incoming Splinter fire thanks to 2+ in cover.
  • Razorbacks/Rhino; still feel like they're subpar compared to pretty much everyone elses' tranports, but they're decent and not too expensive all told. The Rhinos are solid for getting troops to places and they're really nice for eating some overwatch. The Twin AC Razorbacks are, as we all know, legitimately good and Keen Senses can help them against annoying targets and to keep pace with the Rhinos.
  • Armour of Russ was golden, again. Storm Caller helped (at least one Blaster shot was saved thanks to it!) and was useful against the Splinter fire into the post-destruction disembarked GH; definitely a good power. Tempest's Wrath suffered from bad luck (haven't gotten it off in either game so far, simply due to bad dice/good Deny dice!) so, again, going to hold off on judgement,
  • WGBLs are solid, although at 3A base they do suffer from bad luck more than a cheaper unit would, but they do a lot of damage when they're part of the death squad.
  • Beastslayer/Wulfen Stone Wolf Lord is awesome. I got unlucky with his saves (on 2W left, I failed 4 of 6 saves, which was nuts!) but his presence secured the death of two of the Ravagers (and the Archon through Only In Death!). He's a champion.
  • Hunters Unleashed is an excellent ability, and gave me multiple extra fight phases/saved units that otherwise could/would have been crushed (the Succubus's banzai charge got utterly shut down, and that gave me a little bit of a slingshot forward towards his Ravagers - that extra distance is not to be understated). Bjorn also got to kill some extra Reavers (although bad luck saw less fall than should have). The +1 to hit is also really potent, as those Thunder Hammers hitting at WS2+ is sooo much better than 3+, and Beastslayer makes up for the comparable Red Thirst on the Blood Angels against the targets it's important to wound (ie, vehicles/monsters).

Overall, a not great game for feedback, as there were a lot of important dice swings (lots of disproportionately failed saves; low damage rolls; lots of passed saves/FNPs on my opponent's side); etc) but it has reinforced some of my previous points/beliefs. I am definitely glad that I traded out the massively expensive upgraded squads though, as those squads would have achieved very little and been very easy to slaughter.

 

Hopefully I will have a game on Tuesday too, and hopefully it won't be so lop sided!


Edited by Kallas, Yesterday, 03:08 PM.

  • Karack Blackstone, TiguriusX, Konnavaer and 1 other like this

#308
NightHowler

NightHowler

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 695 posts
  • Location:Dallas, TX
  • Faction: The Hand at the Gate
Wow. Great batrep Kallas!!! Thanks!
  • Kallas likes this

"By the River fettered Fenrir will lie till draws nigh the doom of the Gods." - Frey, Lokasenna: 41


#309
Karack Blackstone

Karack Blackstone

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,856 posts
  • Location:The Fang, Fenris
  • Faction: Vlka Fenryka

So, along the similar lines to my 10 strong Grey Hunter pack with 10 total, 1 GHPL with BG, BP, PF now, 1 WGPL with CS/BP, 2 GH's with PG's, BP, CS, and finally 6 GH's with BG, BP, CS

 

I also have a standard Blood Claw pack, featuring the somewhat more normal 1WGPL with BP/PF, 1 BCPL with BP/CS, 12 BC's stock, 1 WGBL BP/CS, 1 WP CA/BP (CA = Crozius Arcanum).

 

What I'm wondering, more for the general options approach, are your "default" pack setups, combinations of HQ/WGPL and GH/BC/SkC/SwC/etc. that you are finally settling on?

 

For trying to generate Lone Wolves, yes, a small-ish BC or GH pack with minimal/no upgrades taken, or, if so inclined, the Lone Wolf option from the Index is still viable. If the Index LW was updated by last year's CA 2017, by all means, use that entry.

 

Still, what are people currently finding to be their pillars? As in, what are the, "I cannot fight as I do without (x)." Please provide feedback, all; I'm pretty sure I and many others can benefit from both the new meta paradigm as well as how you and others are adjusting based upon feedback to others outside full context of any given individual's current context.

 

My GH pack needing the PF/SS WGPL changed over to CS/SS and the GHPL going from BG, BP, CS to BG, BP, PF. Things like that; what is/are your current must have/s?

 

Edit:

 

Kallas, I hope you had fun, and at that, a blast! What did you learn? What would you try differently? How, and what, might you adjust to try and get a fun win? I realize MSU can be very powerful if run right; would you ever run more per Troops pack, or do they just drop too fast? Either way is fine; I just want to know your line of thinking in terms of list building, list theory, your strategies, order of strategic operations, tactics, when to use which tactics, and, logistics (wargear choices).

 

Edit 2:

 

I am starting to reread this thread a little. As a consideration, if I ever manage to fit Wolf Scouts into my lists, I would seriously consider the nearly needed use of a Land Speeder Storm for a ride. If so, it helps to make a mobile harasser pack, because even five roving BG's is going to tear up light troops. If not, then have just have a plan for what you need them to do.

 

And, the fun part: as far as the Stormhawk goes, I typed up elsewhere, but I will make sure it gets seen, as I am in need of feedback as well.

 

Stormhawk

Option 1: Skyhammer Missile Launcher, Icarus Stormcannon, twin Assault Cannons.

Option 2: Las-Talon, Typhoon Missile Launcher, twin Assault Cannons.

 

For each role, the former being anti air, and the latter being ground support, the ground support role is more expensive, but, due to the points difference, along with what the ground support brings, I just wonder if it's a possibly too expensive but highly mobile Land Speeder Typhoon? The LSP is pretty solid, but about half the price. Unlike the Stormhawk, no LS can ever fit both a single AsC along with a TML. the Stormhawk can do not only a TML, but two AsC and still has a two shot per turn half range Lascannon for anti-armor. With the TML, it can dual role as anti-light infantry, or, with the twin Krak Missiles, do a decent backup shot to anti-armor.


Edited by Karack Blackstone, Yesterday, 10:06 PM.


#310
Kallas

Kallas

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 507 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh, UK
  • Faction: Howling Griffons

Still, what are people currently finding to be their pillars? As in, what are the, "I cannot fight as I do without (x)." Please provide feedback, all; I'm pretty sure I and many others can benefit from both the new meta paradigm as well as how you and others are adjusting based upon feedback to others outside full context of any given individual's current context.

Personally I think transported troops are a must, be they Grey Hunters or Blood Claws (I really like that they're very much 'personal preference' rather than one being better or worse). Having a solid core of boots on the ground, and ones capable of actually killing enemy hordes at that, are absolutely necessary for objective control and having transports give them the mobility to stay relevant as a battle develops.

 

I'd also say that powerful characters are a must, preferably with Jump Packs. They could fill in as anti-tank (Thunder Hammers and Saga of the Beastslayer have been excellent) or anti-infantry (Lords/Battle Leaders with Wolf Claws and Saga of the Wolfkin could be really solid), but having them gives a list a lot of power that isn't necessarily easily neutralised. Hunters Unleashed is seriously powerful and gives Space Wolf characters a lot more teeth (pun not intended!) when it comes to achieving their given role.

 

Kallas, I hope you had fun, and at that, a blast! What did you learn? What would you try differently? How, and what, might you adjust to try and get a fun win? I realize MSU can be very powerful if run right; would you ever run more per Troops pack, or do they just drop too fast? Either way is fine; I just want to know your line of thinking in terms of list building, list theory, your strategies, order of strategic operations, tactics, when to use which tactics, and, logistics (wargear choices).

It was a fine game, lots of cool moments (such as Bjorn just tanking Blaster shots, and my Wolf Lord going hulk on the Archon as his last act!) just with a lot of disappointment with some of the balance of the game (such as Power Armoured Marines being just too damn fragile, and Ravagers being far too cheap/effective). Overall it was definitely not a bad game, and was good for learning from some of my mistakes! We also didn't have the best terrain for it, but c'est la vie!

 

As for learning, different tactics/options, etc:

  • It reinforced my decision to take multiple transports. I think if I had the models I would potentially try to take some more Grey Hunters and Rhinos/Razorbacks, possibly dropping the Inceptors and maybe Bjorn; although Bjorn was excellent and just didn't get much opportunity to shine against his preferred targets (ie, big nasties).
  • I could be tempted into running more Grey Hunter packs, but honestly I think that needs to wait for the FAQ/CA for them (and all PA Marines) to become better: they're simply too easy to kill. T4/3+ is not nearly as good as GW initially thought, so they're not resilient enough/not cheap enough. Grey Hunters, though, compared to other PA Marine bodies are absolutely the best Troops. Non-SW Scouts are good for their infiltration, but Grey Hunters are excellent (in terms of PA Marines, that is! I'd much rather have Fire Warriors as my Troops, currently, as they're just better at doing their job given their cost, but Marines are my one true love!)
  • I definitely learned that Agents of Vect is a completely bull :cuss stratagem: something of that magnitude of power should either be available to everyone (maybe a 4CP stratagem of command disruption that anyone can use) or be far more restricted in when/how it can be used (such as restricting it to once per game, and/or making the d6 roll not rerollable). It's a problem when there are some armies that can throw down lots of super powerful stratagem combos on powerful units, such as the Loyal 32 spamming stratagems for powerful Knights, but AoV severely hurts pure armies more than them already. Sorry, getting a little bit ranty/off point...

 

For more SW specific stuff:

  • Grey Hunter packs absolutely need some transports. Marines are extremely fragile (which is stupid, but that is the way they are currently) and will be slaughtered easily without the protective shell of a Rhino/Razorback. Rhinos are fairly reasonably costed (I'd love to see them drop to 60-65pts base though) and Razorbacks bring some much needed heavy weaponry (Twin AC are always solid; Twin LC are good for if you're lacking anti-tank elsewhere in your list). At their core, Grey Hunters are a good workhorse unit: they just need to get where they're needed. I do feel that my choice of completely bare bones units was the right call: if I had held on to my previous list (3 units of 10 GH with 2 Plas/Combi-Plas) my Grey Hunters would have achieved less than these did while being a much bigger drain on resources. Space Marine upgrades are extremely expensive and with little value return on them.
  • Tactics-wise, I feel like a good solid forward-moving core will work well for Space Wolves. Drive your bodies into the heart of the enemy's strongest units to eliminate them (eg, the Thunder Hammer Death Squad into my opponent's Ravager firebase) and tear out their heart before spreading out to eliminate the rest. It's important to keep units in reasonable supporting range. In my game I definitely let my forces get strung out quite a lot: Bjorn should have been advancing up with the Death Squad, and my Razorbacks were quite static too, and I feel like if I had kept my armour closer together and more in support of my characters I may have been able to hold on longer and possibly close the victory point gap later in the game (although a huge problem I had early game was, 1) AoV shutting down CbtS and, 2) Ravagers being broken as :cuss)
  • If I were to iterate on the list, I would probably look at getting some stronger long ranged guns in the list. My opponent's Venoms were operating with basically full impunity, as most of the time all I could muster to target them were Bjorn's Twin LC and some Bolters. The TLC doesn't have a great volume of fire, which means the innate negative to hit and the 5++ make it dodgy as to whether it will bring them down quickly. The Inceptors weren't particularly useful (but again, Ravagers... Against Guard, they'd be massively more useful, able to bully isolated squads of Guardsmen with relatively little threat) and could potentially be used to up-gun the Rhinos into more Twin AC/LC Razorbacks for additional ranged firepower; or possibly turn them into an Axe/Shield Wulfen Dreadnought, although I'd prefer something like a Twin LC Chaplain Dreadnought for backline protection while Bjorn goes off a-murdering, but that's more expensive.
  • The character Death Squad is potent but fragile. The 3++ helps when warding off low volume/high AP+D, but sheer volume of fire (such as massed Splinter Fire) will cut through them quickly. Storm Caller helps, as that brings them all to a 2+ save, which is certainly good especially when paired with character protection, but they need low level troop support. In that game I feel like I should maybe have dropped my Grey Hunters out of the Rhino before the charge into the Ravagers, so that they could provide character protection and to take some of the heat off my characters a little, but I'm not fully convinced that would have helped much.
  • Overall, I feel like my general principle is a good foundation, but I need some more work on my execution. the vehicles need to be pushing up in unison, and my Grey Hunters need to be getting into the squishy parts of my opponent's army ASAP.

Hopefully that helps, let me know if you have any other questions! As long as they are useful, I will continue to write up my thoughts for you all to have a look over (it also helps me process and refine my thought process, so hopefully they're not annoying msn-wink.gif )


  • Karack Blackstone, TiguriusX, Konnavaer and 1 other like this

#311
Karack Blackstone

Karack Blackstone

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,856 posts
  • Location:The Fang, Fenris
  • Faction: Vlka Fenryka

Kallas, sweet writeup! And you did a perfectly fine job on self reflection, too!

 

As far as your ideas, by all means, that's the entire point of this thread! One cannot easily know if any ideas are worthy or not, so, please, by all means, drop them by and those that choose to weigh in will give your the best answer that they can right now. Just don't be surprised that as the thread continues to grow, more and more ideas might drop by, and change what each of us is thinking happens to be our new meta paradigm, or at the very least, challenge it!


  • Kallas likes this

#312
Kallas

Kallas

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 507 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh, UK
  • Faction: Howling Griffons

Stormhawk

Option 1: Skyhammer Missile Launcher, Icarus Stormcannon, twin Assault Cannons.

Option 2: Las-Talon, Typhoon Missile Launcher, twin Assault Cannons.

 

For each role, the former being anti air, and the latter being ground support, the ground support role is more expensive, but, due to the points difference, along with what the ground support brings, I just wonder if it's a possibly too expensive but highly mobile Land Speeder Typhoon? The LSP is pretty solid, but about half the price. Unlike the Stormhawk, no LS can ever fit both a single AsC along with a TML. the Stormhawk can do not only a TML, but two AsC and still has a two shot per turn half range Lascannon for anti-armor. With the TML, it can dual role as anti-light infantry, or, with the twin Krak Missiles, do a decent backup shot to anti-armor.

 

I find Stormhawks to be a bit too expensive for what they actually achieve. Cheap is best route. Stormcannon and Heavy Bolters are probably the best, as the Typhoon unfortunately is just too expensive for its output (sadly, like all Marines Missile Launchers; and I say this as the owner of two Stormhawks with Typhoons!). The Assault Cannons are really the money makers for the Hawk, which is kind of sad as the Razorback can do essentially the same job; a price drop for it is really needed (it takes two Stormcannon/Typhoon Hawks two turns to drop a single IG Valkyrie! It's crazy!), but it can do a decent number on infantry, the main issue being that that means it's a lot of points spent to do something ok, when you can spend a similar amount on two Razorbacks, who'll do the same job but with transport capacity for shielding Grey Hunters/Blood Claws/Wolf Guard.

 

Land Speeders are in the same boat, really. They can do ok when kitted out reasonably cheaply (2xHB/AC) and can kill infantry fairly well. One thing that Land Speeders do ok at is flying forward, shooting something up and then charging something relatively puny (such as a Heavy Weapon team or other small, backfield unit like Kabalites or Guardians that will likely not threaten it in melee, or even just driving up to a Leman Russ to stop it shooting!) to both tie it up in combat and to potentially protect it from being shot at later. They are still very expensive for what they do, though (they're Marine things, of course they're too expensive!). The Hawk is significantly tougher than the Speeder though, with innate Hard to Hit as well as T7 and Infernum Halo Launchers for the rerolls for saves of 1, which is pretty handy (especially against huge Fire Warriors blobs that launch a million S5 shots at you!)

 

Ultimately, they're not awful, but do not expect them to actually threaten vehicles (except for Dark Eldar ones; I kind of wish I'd had my two birds on Saturday!), and don't expect them to make their points back. Their best targets are things like Vanguard Veterans, Death Company, etc; things with Fly without an innate -1, or relatively expensive and fragile things like Venoms, Star/Skyweavers. Space Wolf Hawks are probably the best Hawks, actually, considering access to Keen Senses: a lot of decent targets (like Venoms) are potentially -1/-2 to hit from innate modifiers/the moving Heavy penalty, so Keen Senses cancelling that out will help considerably, making them that much more effective!

 

Hmm...now I want to try them out again! Just, yeah, be warned that they are expensive for what they tend to achieve, but definitely try them out.

 

+++

 

On a similar note, about an expensive unit: I know that Wulfen are an iconic Space Wolf unit and they can certainly do a lot of damage, but they are very expensive and still relatively fragile (they're ultimately just two Scouts with an FNP). How have people been finding them? I've seen a few lists in the Army List subforum running a lot of Wulfen and Stormwolves/fangs which, to me, seems like a lot of eggs in one or two baskets. Are they really that effective? How resilient are they, and do they tend to die quickly but kill a lot, or do they kill one thing and then get shot up?

 

Edit:

Karack: How have your Skyclaws been faring, by the way? I know you've mentioned them before, have you managed to get any table time with them yet?


Edited by Kallas, Yesterday, 11:03 PM.


#313
TiguriusX

TiguriusX

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,748 posts
  • Location:SF Bay Area
  • Faction: Space Wolves
If wulfen reach their target in melee they reliably kill it

Target will either die after Wulfens initial attack or strike back and kill wulfen triggering the death frenzy and then die from those attacks
  • Karhedronuk and Kallas like this

A digital space wolf returning to the pack and emerging from the warp on the TT to try the hobby side

 

Inglorious Drunkard Champion-Night 3 (2012)

ETL first time participant-2018

ETL_VI_Banner_03_Custos_Fidei_01_.jpg


#314
Karack Blackstone

Karack Blackstone

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,856 posts
  • Location:The Fang, Fenris
  • Faction: Vlka Fenryka

Kallas, no, sadly.

 

I have not yet. I also will need to rework my list in terms of points total to squeeze the two Skyclaws packs up to 15 bodies in each. It's an unclear option right now; the Codex entry for the actual unit lists 15 max before the WGSL, while the points per model section caps out at 10.

 

Outside of that, mostly, my packs need better synergy on my part to deliver more bodies reliably into the fight. I tend to run my transports in single file lines until they get close enough to fan out and become a wall. The problem is, as I usually keep so many Grey Hunter packs back to guard the backfield, and, almost always alone, I need to fix this, and go with full push and multi-unit pile outs and charges if able, or, if not, rapid fire and if the enemy does not charge, fire BP's the next turn for whatever hopefully lives and then go in!

 

Still, that Skyclaw pack sounds like an absolute terror if run right. The points total is a bit high, but, a single three strong TWC pack with Frost Axe and Storm Shield each in escort, with the 18 JP unit coming up behind seems like a pretty decently reliable delivery system. The TWC tank the whole way in, and try to provide enough target blocking that if the PA force is shot at through them, the PA unit in total is rolling on a base 2+ save due to being effectively behind cover.


  • Grieux and Kallas like this

#315
Kasper_Hawser

Kasper_Hawser

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,932 posts
  • Location:Malaysia
  • Faction: Vlka Fenryka

Now I want to crash my Thunderhawk into enemy lines in a final blaze of glory.

 

LOL, this actually happened in the novel Blood of Asaheim.

 

Spoiler

 

Sorry, a bit OOP but this just evoked a good memory of the story, although the novel was meh in the end.


  • Grieux likes this

"The 6th Legion has a reputation." said Bear.
"All the Legions Astartes have reputations," replied Hawser.
"Not like ours," said Ogvai "We are known for our ferocity. We are thought to be feral and undisciplined. Even brother Legions consider us to be wild and bestial."
"And you're not ?" asked Hawser.
"If we need to be," said Ogvai. "but if that was our natural state, we'd all be dead by now."
He leaned down towards Hawser like a parent addressing a child.
"It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous" he said.

 

Excerpt from "Prospero Burns" by Dan Abnett


#316
Karhedronuk

Karhedronuk

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,818 posts
  • Location:UK

Looking at Skyclaws, rather than big units, I am wondering if multiple MSU squads are better. More PFs and THs on the SCPL and WGPL, more opportunities for Lone Wolves and less vulnerable to Morale. They can operate together if needed or split up to attack multiple targets if necessary.

 

I play BAs as my other Marine army so I am used to running fairly big JP squads. Death Company and Sanguinary guard benefit from biggish squads to maximise the value of stratagems and buffs. But Skyclaws don't really need stratagems as much as BAs so MSU feels like it might be a better approach for them.


  • Karack Blackstone and TiguriusX like this

Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.


#317
Karack Blackstone

Karack Blackstone

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,856 posts
  • Location:The Fang, Fenris
  • Faction: Vlka Fenryka

Looking at Skyclaws, rather than big units, I am wondering if multiple MSU squads are better. More PFs and THs on the SCPL and WGPL, more opportunities for Lone Wolves and less vulnerable to Morale. They can operate together if needed or split up to attack multiple targets if necessary.

 

I play BAs as my other Marine army so I am used to running fairly big JP squads. Death Company and Sanguinary guard benefit from biggish squads to maximise the value of stratagems and buffs. But Skyclaws don't really need stratagems as much as BAs so MSU feels like it might be a better approach for them.

 

Fair.

 

However, Morale is pretty decent at times, others, not. Due to the rules, the Morale die must roll, and, if I don't like the result, I can reroll. The problem is, unless ATSKNF gains, "... and must keep the lower result," the rule itself is rather wasted. Large packs can take some casualties, from both the enemy as well as the morale phase. And, yes, the presence of so many WGSL and SCPL models within say three six strong packs is nice, the problem is, I'm using them as as mostly anti-chaff role assault unit. Everyone is reliably stuck with a basic Troops tax to get the large Detachments, especially Battalion and Brigade.

 

I enjoy the idea of 18 JP'ers going in as a mass, escorted by a wall of TWC with SS all around, and eight Frost Axes and a single TH on a WGBL on TW to soak and tank for the Skyclaw pack and attached HQ elements will likely see a rather decent sized unit hit whatever I decide to aim them both at, on the table.

 

The thing is, any pack sufficiently large enough will not be meant to make Lone Wolves; while it can, there's reasons not to, as well. My packs are meant to have some durability, or at least, hopefully; the problem is, again, the Morale phase die roll, and if need be, reroll, is not quite as good as it could be, and might be, after the Chapter Approved 2018 book lands.

 

So, here's the specifics of my SkyClaw pack mess.

SkyClaw Pack, all models below have Jump Packs:

14 SkyClaws, BP, CS

1 SkyClaw Pack Leader, BP, CS

1 Wolf Guard Sky Leader, BP, FA

1 Wolf Guard Battle Leader, BP, CS

1 Wolf Priest, BP, CA

 

404 points for the above. Yes, expensive; just deliver it, and watch the carnage!



#318
Karack Blackstone

Karack Blackstone

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,856 posts
  • Location:The Fang, Fenris
  • Faction: Vlka Fenryka

Oh, a major point of note.

 

Someone earlier in this thread noted that a Wolf Guard Biker pack could kick out four shots per shooting phase; it's actually eight!

 

Twin Boltguns can fire two shots at full range, or four at half and less. Also, the Combi-Plasma fires one or two BG shots, and the Plas of the Combi fires another one or two shots.

 

So, yes, four is correct, just 12+" out to 24." If, however, you're at 1" out to 12", you're sporting eight shots per model.

 

Have at! Also, full credit due to whoever thought this monstrosity of a pack up. That's going to bring some serious pain!

 

Edit:

 

TiguriusX looks like the one?

http://www.bolterand...-etc/?p=5152976


Edited by Karack Blackstone, Today, 06:03 PM.





3 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 3 guests, 0 anonymous users