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I Might Have Done a Few Things Wrong - Ed's Thousand Sons


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Hello all.

 

This is the beginning of my Thousand Sons collection/hobby thread.  I came into an army of 1kSons in a trade and decided I liked the tragic background and the psychic phase.  Also, I *really* hate Space Wolves.  So it seemed like a good fit.

 

Anyway, this is my first (and likely only) traitor army.  As such, I don't really know much about things on this side of the Eye of Terror and have been hungrily gazing into the Warp internet for tips, tactics, and ways forward.  I hoped some of you gentlemen could help this aspiring sorcerer with filling out my collection.  I have the following:

Magnus
Ahriman on disk
3 Exalted Sorcerers (1 on disk)
2 Tzaangor Shamans
Daemon Prince w/Axe
2 Chaos Spawn
Sorceror
10 Terminators (2 with soul reapers)
60 Tzaangors
Rubrics
-4 Aspiring Sorcerers
-4 soul reapers
-12 warp flamers
-18 bolter bros
6 Enlightened Tzaangors w/bows
2 Mutalith Vortex Beasts
The Changeling
10 more tzaangors that need to be finished/based

 

So where do I go from here? 

 

Based on Prot's observations in another thread, I think I need to bite the bullet and get two Armigers and two Helverins.  They're just too good and too versatile.  I can do them up in a versatile scheme to switch them from renegade and back again.

 

But other than that I don't know where I should I take this crazy train.  Another daemon prince or two seems like a good buy, but I don't know if it truly is, or just seems that way.  Enlighten me, brothers!

 

Thank you for all your insight and I look forward to seeing where this army goes.  I've got Magnus primed already (mostly just because he looks like fun to paint) and I'm eager to take a brush to these gentlemen.

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Welcome to the Thousand Sons, you already have quite a large army! What state are they in, do you need to do assembly and/or painting? From what I know it looks like you have all the basics covered, maybe a few more basic bolter Rubrics in case you don't want to spend on flamers? Then you can flavour with another Daemon Prince and some robots?

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That’s a very thorough collection. You can add more spawn. I’m a nut for them. Cultists are good point fillers. I’m a little surprised there is t even one Rhino, and perhaps a few Daemon engines. But there’s nothing you ‘must’ get. It’s all basically there. You’re pretty lucky to get such a complete haul like that!
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Looks like you're set for Codex units and might consider daemons or renegade knights as a separate detachment, but you're  set now. It looks pretty thorough unless you want to dip into Forgeworld for fun. I agree with Prot that Helverins can help an army like mine, but you have a lot of options that I don't. 

 

Play with what you like then figure out what you need.

 

I look forward to seeing your progress.

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Welcome to the Thousand Sons, you already have quite a large army! What state are they in, do you need to do assembly and/or painting? From what I know it looks like you have all the basics covered, maybe a few more basic bolter Rubrics in case you don't want to spend on flamers? Then you can flavour with another Daemon Prince and some robots?

Thank you, Fish!  They are bare plastic atm.  Unfortunately, the tzaangors came with pistol/chainsword so I am trying to source 60 tzaangor blade lookalikes.  Otherwise, they are just waiting to be painted.

So you think a few more bolter bros and a prince?  I forgot to mention that I have a mauler/forgefiend body(chassis?) without head or arms.  If I get the kit, would I have parts to complete both kinds?  And, if so, is that worth it?

 

That’s a very thorough collection. You can add more spawn. I’m a nut for them. Cultists are good point fillers. I’m a little surprised there is t even one Rhino, and perhaps a few Daemon engines. But there’s nothing you ‘must’ get. It’s all basically there. You’re pretty lucky to get such a complete haul like that!

Thanks!  I traded my entire Retribution of Scyrah faction for it.  It was a pretty beefy exchange. 

 

Anyway, as a long time marine player, I have a couple Rhinos floating around I can experiment with.  I obviously have no fiends, helbrutes, or heldrakes.  Are they worth it?  Or invest in knights instead?

 

Looks like you're set for Codex units and might consider daemons or renegade knights as a separate detachment, but you're  set now. It looks pretty thorough unless you want to dip into Forgeworld for fun. I agree with Prot that Helverins can help an army like mine, but you have a lot of options that I don't. 

 

Play with what you like then figure out what you need.

 

I look forward to seeing your progress.

I'm not sure about daemons...not out of any resistance, I just don't know much about them.  I do have that Changeling.  Can I summon him to stand next to Magnus or is that just a waste of time?  You also mention that you think Helverins might be less useful for me?  Why is that?  Would you use native TS units instead of a knight detachment?

 

I have my first tournament with them on Saturday.  I'm just diving right in.  I don't expect to do very well (and I am seriously concerned about facing models like knights) but it should be interesting! 

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As as TS go that is a pretty exhaustive list. You could always get away with more demon princes, and maybe look into something like knights. A proper paint scheme and your looking at loyalist/traitor as needed. That is my next few purchases. Im also partial to demons myself. Nurgle is more competitive but Tzeentch fits the theme and is strong in its own right.
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@Brother Captain Ed: I never said Helverins wouldn't be good in your army, just that they're good in an army that doesn't have beast men, mutaliths, and enlightened as options. :) I don't run daemons either, so understand your hesitation there.

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So where do I go from here? 

 

Go buy lots of paint and some brushes. Get it all fully painted and based, and use it in some games.

 

Learn what the army struggles with, then buy new units  to compensate for this weakness. 

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Leviathans with Butcher Cannons have been hugely successful for my Thousand Sons. They're pretty comparable to 2 Helverins (more offensive value but less overall wounds, Leviathan is slightly cheaper) but with more synergy. And you don't need a different detachment. They're threatening to pretty much any target - high S, high volume of shots, decent damage. They've killed all kinds of stuff for me, from knights down to squads of Sisters.
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Welcome aboard. :)

 

Helbrutes are worth it in a TS army. Good, cheap firepower, esp. with Fire Frenzy.

 

Fiends can also be worth it, but you have to lean into the Discipline of Tzeentch and/or bring a Daemon detachment. If you do, and you focus on putting buffs like Flickering Flames, etc. on them, then they can work.

 

Heldrake should be used only if you don't have another way to suppress overwatch before charging or if you want to tie up enemy shooting units. Bringing one along to fill that role is solid, but don't expect the world.

 

A bit more:

 

Predators are great, and once you get better with the unique strategies available to the army, Vindicators can shine too because of all of the buffs and rerolls we can use to mitigate their weaknesses.

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Thank you all for the feedback!  I really appreciate it.  I'm taking the following for the event tomorrow and I'll see how it shakes out.  (Borrowing the two helbrutes from a buddy who isn't using them.)

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons) ++

 

+ HQ +

Ahriman on Disc of Tzeentch : Warlord

Exalted Sorcerer: Force stave, Inferno Bolt Pistol

 

+ Troops +

Rubric Marines
. Aspiring Sorcerer:  Force stave, Inferno Bolt Pistol
. 8x Rubric Marine w/ Inferno Boltgun: 8x Inferno boltgun

 

Rubric Marines
. Aspiring Sorcerer: Force stave, Inferno Bolt Pistol,
. 8x Rubric Marine w/ Inferno Boltgun: 8x Inferno boltgun

 

Tzaangors : Brayhorn, 26x Tzaangor w/ Tzaangor Blades
. Twistbray: Tzaangor blades

 

+ Fast Attack +

Tzaangor Enlightened: Aviarch, 5x Enlightened, Fatecaster greatbows

 

+ Heavy Support +

Mutalith Vortex Beast

Mutalith Vortex Beast

 

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons)  ++

 

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch: Daemonic axe, Wings

 

Exalted Sorcerer on Disc of Tzeentch: Force stave, Inferno Bolt Pistol

 

+ Elites +

Helbrute: Helbrute fist, Twin lascannon

 

Helbrute: Power scourge, Twin lascannon

 

Tzaangor Shaman [5 PL, 90pts]: Force stave

 

++ Total: [111 PL, 2000pts] ++

 

Still not sure how to allocate all the psychic powers, but we'll see what happens!

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Ok.  It went pretty well actually!

 

We had a large number of flake outs and, with only 5 players, failed to hit the magic number for three rounds.  Boo.  We played the Eternal War missions because the store just refuses to use CA, for some reason.  Oh well.  I don't remember it blow by blow, but I'll recount each game as best as I can.

 

First round was against Knights and Imperial Fists.  I don't recall the exact list but the Knight detachment had a Paladin and two Armigers, with an IF battalion of Captain, Lieutenant, min tac squads riding in razorbacks, sniper scouts, several predators, and some devastators.  (More or less)  The mission was The Scouring with Front-Line Assault deployment.  I put the Mutaliths, Helbrutes, Daemon Prince, and Ahriman up front and spread the rest of the boys out to either seize or hold objectives.  Tzaangors went in the webway.  He finished first, but I still got first turn.  He failed to seize. 

 

Staring down a really solid (though not really optimized) gunline, I threw everything forward but my objective campers.  I had an excellent psychic phase, getting my Enlightened Prescience'd, my Mutaliths Glamoured/Fate Woven (respectively) and pushing one up via Warptime, while Ahriman and some Aspirings zapped the devastators and some camping scouts away.  Shooting was alright, except for the helbrutes who put 11 damage onto the Paladin.  The Enlightened scored a few more and he was bracketed.  So a really good start.

 

The response was swift, but timid.  I expected the knights and razorbacks to get up and try to pick apart the onrush, but they stood and shot instead.  He killed the mutaliths, but the closest to him exploded...dragging the sole surviving devastator, a tactical squad, and his lieutenant into the warp.  Lucky break for me there.  I think an Enlightened also bought it. 

 

Turn two wasn't quite as good.  I still got most of my powers out there and used Chaos Familiar to put Diabolic Strength on Ahriman.  I also Death Hexed the Paladin and Warptimed a Helbrute up.  Shooting was unremarkable, but tore the Paladin down to just a couple wounds and scattered a few wounds here and there.  I was able to get the Prince and a Helbrute into combat with his Predators, but Ahriman failed a six inch charge, with a Gaze of Fate reroll, and was left standing there with Diabolic Strength like a moron.  Great.  The Tzaangors also came down and also failed to charge.  Great, Part 2.

 

My opponent now remembered that his knights could move and even the Armigers aren't really slouches in combat.  His marines also hopped out to add their bolters to the fight.  Between shooting and charges, some tzaangors died, a couple Enlightened died, and a cheeky Armiger was able to walk up to Ahriman and gun him down. 

 

Losing Ahriman really hurt going into turn 3, but the prince was able to collect his captain's head and the knights were starting to come down.  The paladin got mobbed by tzaangors, the Enlightened killed an Armiger, and a Helbrute slapped the other Armiger around...and then Crazed! and finished the job.  With nothing but a couple bracketed predators and two razorbacks, the return fire was ineffective and dice down was called.  I held 4 of the 6 objectives, including the superior objective, Slay the Warlord, and Linebreaker.  The final score was something like 14-2.

 

My opponent is a good dude, but he doesn't get a lot of play time and this was maybe his 10th game of the edition.  He treated the knights like giant dreadnoughts which lead to a slow use of what would otherwise be a potentially quite mobile gunline.  His dice also let him down a bit by failing to economically kill the mutaliths.  They soaked up enough that real threats to his knights and metal boxes, the helbrutes, were almost unmolested.  Total lack of psychic defense played a major role as well since there were several times where I needed a 5 or 6 to cast, only rolled a 5 or 6, and it went off.  Those are very deniable numbers and they went unchecked.

 

My next opponent was a Genestealer Cult.  I know virtually nothing about GSCs, but he was rocking three Leman Russ tank commanders, two great big blobs of genestealers , a couple psykers, and a few units of whatever the hybrid cultists are.  I honestly have no idea.  This guy is one of my regular opponents and he is my kryptonite.  It's like he emits some kind of dice altering field when we play each other.  Not only will I outright fail at most things I attempt (Plasma will overheat...with rerolls.  The Warp will be Peril'd.  No save will be made and fully 50% of any dice rolled will be 1s.) but he will succeed at a mind boggling rate.  5+ succeeds over half the time.  Every reroll will turn into a hit.  The craziest of potshots will result in wounds.  It's maddening.

 

Anyway, the mission was No Mercy on a Dawn of War deployment.  He only had a couple more drops, so we were pretty evenly matched there.  I got the +1 and got the first turn.  He failed to seize.  Much of his army was off the board and the Leman Russes were back in a corner.  Knowing I couldn't win a shootout with the Russes and that I was going to get a genestealer enema no matter what I did, I again threw the mutaliths, daemon prince, and Ahriman forward.  The rest of the turn was exactly what I've come expect when playing this gentleman.  Half my powers failed (one perils), my mutalith failed his power (only needing a 2), and my helbrutes missed every lascannon shot but one...which was saved on a 6.  Awesome. 

 

Suddenly, genestealers! 

 

Most of his cult ambush rolls went pretty well, one of his psykers had to come in near the tanks and not my dudes, so that was nice.  And, crucially, one genestealer blob did not get to move on arrival, remaining at 9 inches away.  Then, the most amazing thing happened: the dice normalized.  It took all his tanks to finally tear down a mutalith.  A handful of autoguns gota bead on the Enlightened but only caused one wound.  One genestealer mob charged a helbrute and tore him to pieces, consolidating into some Rubrics, but the Rubrics actually got 50% of their wounds through and killed a few.  The big news of the turn, however, is that the other mob of genestealers failed to get their 9 inch charge.  Huge. 

 

Now, because of the failure of genestealers to tie me down, I was able to actually make a meaningful counterattack.  On one flank, Ahriman stripped the invuln off the stranded genestealers and zapped a few, while the Rubrics thoroughly savaged them with bolter fire.  On the other, the remaining Helbrute, Rubrics, and a sorcerer waded into the genestealers who charged and reaped a heavy toll since they only made about a 1/3 of their saves (like a normal person).  The shaman and the Enlightened swooped over the stealers and straight murdered the support characters behind them.  The prince and the Mutalith barreled forward, getting into combat, but not doing much on some pretty terrible dice.  When the dust settled, one mob of genestealers and their support was dead, while the other was down to around 6, and the prince and mutalith were into the gunline. 

 

Here his dice regained their usual habits, and he gunned down the prince while causing more trouble with the remaining genestealers and cultists.  However, with most of his killers off the table and his tanks busy repelling boarders, his damage was solid, but not punishing.  At this point, dice went down and we tallied points.... 12-12.  Arrrgh!  So close. 

 

Because there was no clear winner at this point, a third round was declared, but I had to drop since I had told my wife I was only playing two.  If I stayed for three after saying that, I'd be getting a divorce.  So my day was done. 

 

Overall, I loved the Thousand Sons.  Really loved it.  Much more fun than I have had with my loyalists lately.  I made a lot of mistakes.  I totally forgot Death to the False Emperor in the first game and never used Veterans of the Long War in either game.  I was probably too aggressive with Ahriman.  I left the tzaangors in the webway in game 2 and they probably shouldn't have been there in the first place.  But I think I juggled the psykers pretty well and made good use of the associated stratagems.  Brotherhood of Sorcerers is such a great ability and I loved the options I had in the psychic phase.  Outside of the psykers, I think I need to consider the mutaliths and tzaangors a bit more carefully.  They're bit more finicky than I expected and I don't think I quite get them yet.  The Enlightened however, were totally amazing and I was blown away by them nearly every turn.  Good, consistent damage, excellent mobility, and fly.  I'm not sure if I should get more or not, but I can see why people play entire detachments of them.

 

Anyway, I'm not sure how to keep developing them, but I do have a much better grasp and I am definitely here to stay.  Now, I've got Magnus on the painting table and we'll see where we go from here!

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