Prime Time: Primarch, Primork, Avatar, Etc....

[Karack Blackstone]

Hello.

 

A thought that another had in the thread about the return of Leman Russ got me thinking, long term. I honestly hope GW is ready to consider the effects of letting other Gods, Primarchs, Daemon Primarchs, and what I call Primorks, into the game.

 

It would be interesting to see what would work, but, considering the tier system that would be needed, addressing this issue could be both fun and hard.

Link to first post to mention this concept will be below:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349753-so-when-do-you-think-russ-will-be-back/?p=5150158

 

So, Eldar Gods, the True C'Tan, T'au... ? Not sure what T'au would get, maybe Sept Champions or Cohorts. Something to give the other factions something for the heavy hitters club. Eldar have the Avatar of Khaine; why not let some of the others return, too? Or, maybe that's the plan?

 

Still...

 

Thoughts?

[Commander Dawnstar]

After the events of War of Secrets it doesn't seem wholly out of the question that GW might give the T'au some kind of warp-empowered avatar of the Greater Good if they really had to give them them something on that sort of tier of power. I'd hate it and it'd raise a lot of questions but the possibility is certainly there and has a basis in the lore.

 

More likely is that they'd give them some new Battlesuit specifically designed to play the godslayer role, perhaps with Kais as its pilot. Being a one-man army is his shtick after all.

[Triszin]

After the events of War of Secrets it doesn't seem wholly out of the question that GW might give the T'au some kind of warp-empowered avatar of the Greater Good if they really had to give them them something on that sort of tier of power. I'd hate it and it'd raise a lot of questions but the possibility is certainly there and has a basis in the lore.

 

More likely is that they'd give them some new Battlesuit specifically designed to play the godslayer role, perhaps with Kais as its pilot. Being a one-man army is his shtick after all.

Kais in a specialized suit is def going to be the tau "primearch str" style character

[m_r_parker]

Honestly, I have a bit more of a cynical viewpoint on all of this. Whilst I would like to think that the Citadel design team would look to things like background lore and rules balance in influencing their future plans, there is something first and foremost that overrides all of this:

 

Games Workshop is a miniatures company.

 

They will look to creating models / kits that deliver profit and worry about the smaller things (like explaining their appearance, or writing rules) later on in the process. And if you look at their latest kits, size matters. Whether it’s replacing Greater Daemons with new plastics, Imperial Knights, Daemon Primarchs or looking across into the AoS ranges (typically heroes on massive mounts) then it’s clear their focus is on the larger centrepiece miniatures that can means the higher price tags.

 

So, with that in mind, I can clearly see that the future will allow other 40k deities to have their own avatars represented in game. The most obvious in my eyes is a plastic Avatar for the Eldar (seeing as we already have the Ynead equivalent and a plastic Couldron of Blood from the Dark Elves, this should be simple to piece together), but also a much larger Gazkull miniature to represent his stature within Ork mythology. We’ll probably see more Daemon Primarchs and their loyalist Bretheren (even if I’m against more of the loyalist coming back), but fundamentally if it results in a large kit then I think all bets are off as to what they will or won’t produce.

[b1soul]

I hope Ghaz is Beast-level post-Indomitus

[Triszin]

I hope Ghaz is Beast-level post-Indomitus

if he isn't I shall waaaggh quietly into the night. =(

[Karack Blackstone]

Ghaz ends up getting "blessed" by Gork and Mork, or, becomes his own Ork deity.

 

I don't know how badass the fluff could be written, but, isn't the lore of Ghaz starting to approach him being deified?

[toaae]

Ghaz ends up getting "blessed" by Gork and Mork, or, becomes his own Ork deity.

 

I don't know how badass the fluff could be written, but, isn't the lore of Ghaz starting to approach him being deified?

 

No.

 

Ghaz is perhaps the smartest Ork warlord the Imperium has ever fought, capable of deep strategic and tactical planning and experimentation, with the patience to what for advantageous developments. He is also supremely gifted with a passive psychic presence, able to communicate with his subordinates on Armegeddon while he was on Octarius, half a galaxy away. How much of that is him and how much is being the Prophet of Gork and Mork is the mystery, but he isn't being worshipped. His stated goals are to bring about the Great WAAAAGH!!! which would birth Gork and Mork into the universe.

[Karack Blackstone]

 

Ghaz ends up getting "blessed" by Gork and Mork, or, becomes his own Ork deity.

 

I don't know how badass the fluff could be written, but, isn't the lore of Ghaz starting to approach him being deified?

 

No.

 

Ghaz is perhaps the smartest Ork warlord the Imperium has ever fought, capable of deep strategic and tactical planning and experimentation, with the patience to what for advantageous developments. He is also supremely gifted with a passive psychic presence, able to communicate with his subordinates on Armegeddon while he was on Octarius, half a galaxy away. How much of that is him and how much is being the Prophet of Gork and Mork is the mystery, but he isn't being worshipped. His stated goals are to bring about the Great WAAAAGH!!! which would birth Gork and Mork into the universe.

 

 

Okay.

 

So, what if that plan worked?

 

What then?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

There is a self perpetuating mythos GW will ever release more Primarchs.

[Warhead01]

 

 

Ghaz ends up getting "blessed" by Gork and Mork, or, becomes his own Ork deity.

 

I don't know how badass the fluff could be written, but, isn't the lore of Ghaz starting to approach him being deified?

 

No.

 

Ghaz is perhaps the smartest Ork warlord the Imperium has ever fought, capable of deep strategic and tactical planning and experimentation, with the patience to what for advantageous developments. He is also supremely gifted with a passive psychic presence, able to communicate with his subordinates on Armegeddon while he was on Octarius, half a galaxy away. How much of that is him and how much is being the Prophet of Gork and Mork is the mystery, but he isn't being worshipped. His stated goals are to bring about the Great WAAAAGH!!! which would birth Gork and Mork into the universe.

 

 

Okay.

 

So, what if that plan worked?

 

What then?

 

Then what? Clearly then the universe turns green and every one else is back footed again. 

I have never read anything saying Ghaz wanted to bring the birth of Gork and Mork. Frankly I think as gods they are more powerful and should remain what they are. 

Ghaz has the good fortune of being an Ork with no natural predator to truly worry about. His ability for long term planning backed by his ...charisma makes him a force of nature. He's big an powerful and leads a really big force so other Orks simply want to join, hold outs are killed and others are recruited after the meet him. If the Orks and a Master of Orkkind it would be him. 

Besides that it's not about the finish it's about the ride.  The more he has to over come the more powerful he is in the eye's of the Orks. 

I doubt he'll conquer an area as large as the Emperor did but it will be substantial. Who ever lives there will just be under Ork rule. I would have seen that as extremely bad until the Beast series. Considering the harsh life of most Imperial citizens will they even know the difference. 

[Lexington]

Thoughts:

 

1) This will definitely continue to happen, to some degree

 

2) This will continue the setting’s sad degeneration into power fantasies and wish fulfillment for the lowest of possible common denominators

[Panzer]

2) This will continue the setting’s sad degeneration into power fantasies and wish fulfillment for the lowest of possible common denominators

*2) This will continue the setting's great ascension into awesomeness.

 

FTFY

[N1SB]

 

 

...and what I call Primorks, into the game.

 

OMG that is hilarious, Imma make something like a Primork when the new Codex comes out, some Ork in a Dread imitating Roboute Guilliman in his new armour.

[D3L]

the name isn't quite that revolutionary ;-) , it comes from the war of the beast... novels, less we should talk about those abominations, I suppose

[Sete]

the name isn't quite that revolutionary ;-) , it comes from the war of the beast... novels, less we should talk about those abominations, I suppose

Those abominations are a lot more palatable then some other, more recent ones...

[Jackalwolf]

 

 

 

 

...and what I call Primorks, into the game.

OMG that is hilarious, Imma make something like a Primork when the new Codex comes out, some Ork in a Dread imitating Roboute Guilliman in his new armour.

Yes. Please. You Ork players are the craziest bunch.

[Urriak Urruk]

Eldar don't need more Avatars. Instead, remodel and redo the rules for the Phoenix Lords. They're essentially the Eldar equivalents of Primarchs.

 

Dark Eldar even have a Phoenix Lord, Arha.

 

Tyranids, give them a Primaris-ified Swarmlord.

[Triszin]

Eldar don't need more Avatars. Instead, remodel and redo the rules for the Phoenix Lords. They're essentially the Eldar equivalents of Primarchs.

 

Dark Eldar even have a Phoenix Lord, Arha.

 

Tyranids, give them a Primaris-ified Swarmlord.

Norn queens? Not much is really written on them

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Is NOM queens .

[Captain Idaho]

There's definitely scope for new and powerful models. I quite like the idea. The Necrons can have a splinter faction of C'tan to oppose their self obsessed little Dynasties. Tyranids can always produce a super beast. Chaos have Primarchs coming out the Warp. Tau, well who cares as they all deserve to die.

 

Eldar should perhaps have a powered up Avatar in my view. New and larger model with weapon options.

 

Phoenix Lords are NOT Primarch equivalent though. They're like Custodes Captains in the fluff. A buff needed perhaps but NOT on the same level as Primorks and Primarchs.

[Triszin]

Isha yannari khaine are primarch equivalents

[Moonreaper666]

Actually, Yvraine has managed to get her hands on the most powerful version of the Avatar of Khaine!

 

Phoenix Lords have lost to Space Marines (even Night Lords) in personal combat

[Azekai]

Actually, Yvraine has managed to get her hands on the most powerful version of the Avatar of Khaine!

 

Phoenix Lords have lost to Space Marines (even Night Lords) in personal combat

Yeah, and the daemon primarch Mortarion got ‘I <3 mom’ or some such nonsense carved on his heart by a grey knight.

 

Fluff is dumb sometimes. Doesn’t change the role the Phoenix Lords play in Eldar society.

[Rik Lightstar]

 

Actually, Yvraine has managed to get her hands on the most powerful version of the Avatar of Khaine!

 

Phoenix Lords have lost to Space Marines (even Night Lords) in personal combat

Yeah, and the daemon primarch Mortarion got ‘I <3 mom’ or some such nonsense carved on his heart by a grey knight.

 

Fluff is dumb sometimes. Doesn’t change the role the Phoenix Lords play in Eldar society.

Except Mortarion had already fought all the other Grey Knights Grand Masters and killed them. Draigo was number 12, it's safe to say that Morty was probably a bit worse for wear by that point and that Draigo wasn't overly pleased at all his mates being wasted.

 

Rik