KT mini-codex suggests you finish that soup quick, brothers!

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

The current meta-bane of all-Wolves and all-anything armies - the near-ubiquitous "Imperial Soup" CP farm - is likely getting nerfed soon and the Rogue Trader Kill Team mini-codex provides some insight as to how.

 

Basically, the new rules state that the CP generated by the Elucidian Starstrider detachment (and I assume* the Gellerpox Infection detachment as well) MUST be spent on Stratagems SPECIFIC TO THAT FACTION.

 

This is death - or at least a serious wedgie - to the Imperial Soup approach of using all those lovely Guard CPs on an Imperial Knight.

 

Look for a similar change gamewide as of "The Big FAQ" when it's rolled out this month.

 

* (Yes, yes. Myself AND Umption).

[thymidine]

You could still use the farmed cp to interrupt, reroll, and pass morale, correct?

Seems like a bad fix. They should've just nerfed the guard relic and/or warlord trait.

Does this make us the only army without any way to regen CP now?

[PeteySödes]

You could still use the fatmed cp to interrupt, reroll, and pass morale, correct?

 

Seems like a bad fix. They should've just nerfed the guard relic and/or warlord trait.

 

Does this make us the only army without any way to regen CP now?

I guess I interpret “generated by” as including any from a relic. I can’t imagine they won’t be clear in the FAQ when it’s released.

[CaptainStabby]

As much as that needs to get addressed... That fix is going to be actual cancer to track and is really inelegant.

[thymidine]

 

You could still use the fatmed cp to interrupt, reroll, and pass morale, correct?

 

Seems like a bad fix. They should've just nerfed the guard relic and/or warlord trait.

 

Does this make us the only army without any way to regen CP now?

I guess I interpret “generated by” as including any from a relic. I can’t imagine they won’t be clear in the FAQ when it’s released.

Sure, I agree with your interpretation. I just mentioned the other stratagems because they are universal. I would think any CP regenerated from an army stays with that army, but you would be able to use CP from any detachment on the universal stratagems.

 

That is much weaker than it is now, but getting infinite rerolls for less than 300pts is still useful.

[Ratherdashing]

"The red die is my AM CP. The blue die is my SW CP."

Seems elegant enough to me. As long as you don't accidentally roll your CP tracking die. Which I already do almost every game.

[PeteySödes]

Oh you mean keep it simple eighth edition is now the most complicated one now? Weird…

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

 

 

You could still use the fatmed cp to interrupt, reroll, and pass morale, correct?

 

Seems like a bad fix. They should've just nerfed the guard relic and/or warlord trait.

 

Does this make us the only army without any way to regen CP now?

I guess I interpret “generated by” as including any from a relic. I can’t imagine they won’t be clear in the FAQ when it’s released.

Sure, I agree with your interpretation. I just mentioned the other stratagems because they are universal. I would think any CP regenerated from an army stays with that army, but you would be able to use CP from any detachment on the universal stratagems.

 

That is much weaker than it is now, but getting infinite rerolls for less than 300pts is still useful.

 

 

I guess it will depend on the wording. Aren't all morale checks unit-specific? They could definitely state that Insane Bravery must be paid for by CP generated by the faction that the unit benefiting from it belongs to. Same with Counter-Offensive. If you wanted to use a Guard-generated CP to allow a Knight to interrupt, you may be SOL. And most rerolls are unit-specific as well (not all, granted). So they could definitely impact those universal stratagems with this rule.

[Brother Tyler]

What evidence is there that a rule for the Kill Team game is going to be translated into mainstream Warhammer 40,000? They are two separate games, and while there are some parallels, Kill Team is a bit more granular and works differently from mainstream Warhammer 40,000. Is it possible that this is much ado about nothing? 

[PeteySödes]

What evidence is there that a rule for the Kill Team game is going to be translated into mainstream Warhammer 40,000? They are two separate games, and while there are some parallels, Kill Team is a bit more granular and works differently from mainstream Warhammer 40,000. Is it possible that this is much ado about nothing?

Box comes with mini codexes for 8th ed play. That’s what we’re discussing.

[Captain_Krash]

You could still use the farmed cp to interrupt, reroll, and pass morale, correct?

 

Seems like a bad fix. They should've just nerfed the guard relic and/or warlord trait.

 

Does this make us the only army without any way to regen CP now?

Sure nerf guard players even more even though its not there fault that people want to play soup to there advantage...GW could just solve the problem 100% by stating in "Matched play" can only use forces from your own codex. 

 

Krash

[PeteySödes]

 

 

You could still use the farmed cp to interrupt, reroll, and pass morale, correct?

 

Seems like a bad fix. They should've just nerfed the guard relic and/or warlord trait.

 

Does this make us the only army without any way to regen CP now?

Sure nerf guard players even more even though its not there fault that people want to play soup to there advantage...GW could just solve the problem 100% by stating in "Matched play" can only use forces from your own codex.

 

Krash

Well first this doesn’t nerf guard at all really, just soup and people who abuse guard for CP.if you just play guard this would have zero effect.

 

Secondly they would never just kill soup for matches play. Your not putting that genie back in the bottle.

[thymidine]

 

You could still use the farmed cp to interrupt, reroll, and pass morale, correct?

 

Seems like a bad fix. They should've just nerfed the guard relic and/or warlord trait.

 

Does this make us the only army without any way to regen CP now?

Sure nerf guard players even more even though its not there fault that people want to play soup to there advantage...GW could just solve the problem 100% by stating in "Matched play" can only use forces from your own codex. 

 

Krash

 

 

Guard is, arguably, the only imperial faction that you can play at the highest competitve level using only one codex. Why should they be the only faction in the whole game that gets infinite CPs?

[thymidine]

By the way, I wouldn't be shocked at all if GW simply removes all forms of CP regeneration based on some of the 'hints' I heard after NOVA. Nothing super specific, other than just about every top player they interviewed saying they hate CP regeneration (even the ones that were using it extensively). The casters also hinted that the big FAQ was going to be bigger than most people are expecting.

 

That, combined with the fact that our codex didn't have any form of CP regen, leads me to believe we might see the end of CP farming from 2 directions.

[One Two Wolf]

We don't need a 'gain CP' dice roll hookup, with 2000pts you should be able to generate 15 if you need them that badly and that's 3 or 4 per turn.

 

6x5 man GH bare bones

Bjorn

Murderfang + 2x5 man wulfen OR a heavy support detachment OR 3x cyberwolves for the price of some combis

Selection of cheap HQ's (as befits space wolves armies)

Points left over.

 

Job done. Soup should be down the drain.

[thymidine]

We don't need a 'gain CP' dice roll hookup, with 2000pts you should be able to generate 15 if you need them that badly and that's 3 or 4 per turn.

 

6x5 man GH bare bones

Bjorn

Murderfang + 2x5 man wulfen

Selection of cheap HQ's (as befits space wolves armies)

 

Job done. Soup should be down the drain.

 

If you're playing someone who does have a way to regen CP and you don't, you're playing at a pretty big disadvantage. This is similar to the 'free units' problem from 7th. CP are a resource, just like points, and should be balanced between players in a competitive setting.

 

Also, you can burn through 15 cp very fast if you're running 3 blood angel smash captains. I've seen players use 9 or 10 in a single turn getting them to redeploy, charge 3d6 inches, fight twice, fight when killed, etc.

[One Two Wolf]

 

 

We don't need a 'gain CP' dice roll hookup, with 2000pts you should be able to generate 15 if you need them that badly and that's 3 or 4 per turn.

 

6x5 man GH bare bones

Bjorn

Murderfang + 2x5 man wulfen

Selection of cheap HQ's (as befits space wolves armies)

 

Job done. Soup should be down the drain.

If you're playing someone who does have a way to regen CP and you don't, you're playing at a pretty big disadvantage. This is similar to the 'free units' problem from 7th. CP are a resource, just like points, and should be balanced between players in a competitive setting.

 

Also, you can burn through 15 cp very fast if you're running 3 blood angel smash captains. I've seen players use 9 or 10 in a single turn getting them to redeploy, charge 3d6 inches, fight twice, fight when killed, etc.

Agreed. But if you spend ten in a turn that should be pretty much game changing in itself - I just mean to say that I don't think it's such a disadvantage. They are more valuable when used well that when getting one or two back per game. Yes, getting that one out if nowhere might make something awesome happen but I don't think it's gonna be the deciding factor game in game out is all.

[spacepup]

Doesn't affect me at all.

[Jackalwolf]

I'll be glad if it means more mono codex armies. There's something beautiful about that.

[Psilence]

I agree. Cherry picking could use some toning down

[MeatGrinder]

Just to clarify, the euclidian starstriders do no have a method of generating CPs during the game right?

 

GW misses the point. They need to hit the CP farms, the kirov's aquila and Strategist combos, not the people trying to squeeze more cps in. This change makes armies like knights and custodes worse off. Especially custodes, why bother with a battalion when you can just take the supreme command or an outrider allied with whatever the top meta army is? Youre not getting enough cps from the battalion alone for everything you want to do.

 

This change won't hurt the Smashcaptain BA build, in fact, it'll make it better.

 

They should have just dropped the combos entirely and left it at that. And killed supreme command while theyre at it.

[PeteySödes]

One of the rumours that keeps popping up recently is the suggestion that stratagems would/should be locked to the warlords faction. Im not sure theyd go that far but I personally would welcome that restriction. My bias is huge though, so don't mind me.

[Gherrick]

One of the rumours that keeps popping up recently is the suggestion that stratagems would/should be locked to the warlords faction. Im not sure theyd go that far but I personally would welcome that restriction. My bias is huge though, so don't mind me.

I'd rather they just have a fixed number of CPs based on PL/points, and not have it tied to detachments. 1CP per 200-250pts (I don't care for PL, so I'm not sure what it would approximately equate to). Perhaps give a bonus 2CP if your army is bound. 8-10 CPs for a 2k list means you have to really think how you want to use them effectively. I'd also limit per round usage to 4-5 as well, just to add to the tactical aspect of CPs. You should not have so many CPs that you are comfortable burning several each phase of each round.

 

At the end of the day, there shouldn't be a significant swing in CPs between armies of the same PL/points. There shouldn't be some armies with 5CPs, and others with the same points with 25CPs.

[jerrys]

I sort of like them as an incentive to taking troops. Maybe you could do 1-2 CP per troops slot, or 1-2cp per 100pts of troops, or something?

[Gherrick]

I sort of like them as an incentive to taking troops. Maybe you could do 1-2 CP per troops slot, or 1-2cp per 100pts of troops, or something?

Troops already have a significant incentive with objsec. The challenge is balancing CPs between small elite/specialist armies and large horde armies at the same point tier. Neither should inherently have more CPs just on that army style alone. If anything, more CPs should be given based on number of HQs (not troops), since CPs represent tactics/skill employed by the army leaders. That's entirely why we get a bonus CP with Bjorn.