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FW Friday: Carnodon Tank (Surprise 40k Rules!)


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#26
Petitioner's City

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I love the two different fluff pieces:

 

30K:

 

 

The Carnodon is a versatile medium battle tank which acted as the lynchpin for many of the storied successes of the Imperial Army during the Great Crusade. As a premier mobile fire platform, it was regularly adapted to combat a wide variety of foes and respond to any number of battlefield conditions. At Gamma-Incunablar, a squadron of the 43rd Veradan’s Carnodons, fitted with las weaponry, brought down the first of the great Basemekanic beasts which had subjugated that world, their concentrated firepower surpassing even the Predator tanks of the IIIrd Legion to punch through the vast creature’s thick metallic hide. On Hektun, the 3rd Saturnyne Rams earned their reputation as the ‘Incinerators’ of the Solar Auxilia when their Carnodons, fitted entirely with volkite weaponry, were used to strategically ignite the hydrogen-rich vents of the Phenaem’s tunnel structures, eradicating the foul xenos within.

 

The Carnodon tank was foremost of many initiatives undertaken by the Imperial Host to exploit the modular design of the relatively new Aurox chassis during the expansion of the Imperium by creating variants based on it. During the early years of the Great Crusade, it rapidly became a byword for conquest amongst the Expeditionary fleets, a legacy which led to the production of the dedicated Imperial battle tanks of latter-days. As the Great Crusade moved ever outwards and supply of the Aurox chassis peaked, it is thought that many Carnodon tanks entered a strategic reserve and were distributed to Crusade muster worlds behind the front lines; with over two hundred thousand examples thought to have been stored pending secondary mobilisation in the warrens under the world of Tallarn

 

40K

 

 

Hailing from the prehistory of the Imperium, the Carnodon tank is a true relic of war. Those few that have survived the passage of the millennia are revered as links to the former incarnation of the Astra Militarum – that mainstay of the Great Crusade, the Imperial Army. With the hour so dark, and the need for trusted war assets greater than ever, the Priesthood of Mars has reinstated the STC for the Carnodon on several forge worlds, and under the light of the Great Rift the ancient tank has trundled forth from their manufactorums once more. Bristling with multi-lasers, the Carnodon is an ideal tool for mowing down elite infantry, blasting apart transports and crippling light tanks – it is respected as a fearsome asset for any armoured regiment. Carnodons are capable of mounting almost any heavy weapon in the Astra Militarum’s arsenal – more than that, they have the power-rich infrastructure and fiery machine spirits needed to carry the little-understood volkite weaponry. Even those foes that cannot be laid low by high-intensity lasers will be reduced to ashes by the deflagratory fires of a volkite beam.


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Cinema itself is a trick of time — still pictures passed through a focused beam of light at 24 frames per second. We are reminded of that in La Jetée...

#27
armarnis

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awesome fluff!



#28
Triszin

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really love the updated volkite rules for 40k.

 

i'm hoping chapter approved retroactively updates all volkite equipment.

 

------

 

also, I think forgeworld might be the right team to fix helfrost weapons. right now theres almost no reason to take them. they are just missing tons of fluffyness, and utlity


banana

#29
Majorbookworm

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I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of the look of it. And I kinda wonder what the point of it when we have the Leman Russ. Would have liked to see perhaps something that looks more 'modern' rather than an even more backwards design that the LR already has.



#30
Beams

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Without the grinding advance rule, it is basically useless.

You can shoot, what, 18 multilaser shots at 120 pts vs 40 Str 5 shots at 150 with extra toughness and wounds?

The Vulkite rules are super cool, and if they were either cheaper, or if the tank could fire more, it would be a great anti light tank/transport weapon that could be turned against invuln save monsters.
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#31
autek mor

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i'm gonna wait for somebody to mathhammer the hell out of this unit but on first glance it seems like good value for its points cost and those mortal wounds on the volkites though.


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#32
SkimaskMohawk

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All these 40k comments about how useless the tanks is; forgeworld obviously isn't putting it's time into making these fit into the guard selection properly. They already have to balance two separate versions for the game system it was actually made for, forget about making it good enough to be considered against the overloaded mess that's a lrmbt datasheet

#33
armarnis

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thats the main problem, everything new is expected to always overshadow stuff thats already around. no :cuss: given about the rules just a nice boon for people that dont play exclusively 30k. people see only "NEW" and "NOT BETTER THAN X" and react with "WHY SHOULD I USE"... saddens my heart truly


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#34
abraxus

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Looks like a new Primaris Predator to me ;).  Now if only I could AFFORD a few of them....

 

Anyone know what the size of this is compared to a Rhino Chassis?


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#35
SillyDreadnought

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thats the main problem, everything new is expected to always overshadow stuff thats already around. no censored.gif: given about the rules just a nice boon for people that dont play exclusively 30k. people see only "NEW" and "NOT BETTER THAN X" and react with "WHY SHOULD I USE"... saddens my heart truly

Everything is expected to be at least a viable choice in 8th edition given the sweeping equalization of weapons vs all targets. And the Carnodon doesn't offer anything for Guard players that their main book hasn't got covered already.

It's not really a "nice boon" for Guard players. It's a bit of a detriment to a Guard player's list when they could get objectively superior firepower, durability and synergy with the Leman Russ, as opposed to a cheap rhino-sized tank with only one or two actually useful loadouts.


But for 30k? Lovely tank, fills a great niche in the Solar Auxilia list and I'll take six of them.
 



#36
Mango Polo

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FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS I LAY BENEATH THE ICE AND NOW....

oh hey look FW finally is putting up for pre order what had been previewed what, a year or two ago?

FW are stretching the :cuss out of their 30k releases.

 

I'm sure in a year or five or ten we'll get around to the Deredeo's atomantic pavise. And the new drop pod. And the twin conversion beamer acastus knight. And.



#37
Beams

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thats the main problem, everything new is expected to always overshadow stuff thats already around. no :cuss: given about the rules just a nice boon for people that dont play exclusively 30k. people see only "NEW" and "NOT BETTER THAN X" and react with "WHY SHOULD I USE"... saddens my heart truly

It's an ok model, nothing spectacular, and it has arguably uninteresting rules, and has terrible point efficiencies. Adding it to your army will cost you an arm and a leg from FW and then will actually make your army significantly worse.

It should at least have a role to fill that it fills "averagely" otherwise you get people saying things like, "wow, why would I ever take that?"

Edited by Beams, 14 September 2018 - 05:06 PM.


#38
Ishagu

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The unit is fine and cheap. The model itself looks really nice and is a welcome departure from the common chassis vehicles.

You can have it as a Las Cannon platform at the back and it will function well.

The only real issue is the monetary cost. CA might update the point costs also.

Edited by Ishagu, 14 September 2018 - 05:10 PM.

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#39
TheOneTrueZon

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$106 USD for a Model-T Predator with Choom? Daaaaaaannng smokey, that's steep. 


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"My blood is the same colour as yours. And what I do, I do to protect Earth, same as you. You don't like how I do it, that's your prerogative. But there are things going on out there that you know nothing about. Threats to the human race that no one never hears about, because we stopped them. There are dangers all around us. And whether you like us or not, we may be all that stands between you and the abyss."
- Bester, Babylon 5

 

http://www.bolterand...-sword-crusade/

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http://www.bolterand...primal-marines/

 

 

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#40
Dark_Master

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Unsure how I feel about the TL Lascannon turret, seeing as TL-Las preds weren't around in the heresy. 
 
Do any other Solar vehicles have this TL Las?


According to Warhammer World they were, the STC must have been lost in the drop site massacre

FBA9AB9C-3EB8-4E8D-81A9-5BA1667D6E21_zps



DM

#41
MARK0SIAN

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thats the main problem, everything new is expected to always overshadow stuff thats already around. no :cuss: given about the rules just a nice boon for people that dont play exclusively 30k. people see only "NEW" and "NOT BETTER THAN X" and react with "WHY SHOULD I USE"... saddens my heart truly


For me it’s not that it’s not new and better than everything else it’s that it’s new and not even as good as everything else. It should at least ignore the movement penalty on its turret weapon.

We don’t want it to be better, but we also aren’t happy if it’s outclassed by everything that already exists because you’re penalising yourself to take it.

#42
Finkmilkana

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Eh, it’s rules, while not completely amazing, are actually not that bad. Well, yeah, taking multilasers is bad, but that’s more multilasers being terrible in 8th than the tank being bad.
If you instead for example compare the lascannon variant to a LR demolisher, you get on average the same number of shots with almost the same strength (9 vs 10 almost never maters) at a far longer range for less points (150 with multilaser to match the HB vs 170). Only thing missing is doubling the number of shots against large units and a weaker chassis, which seems fair.
Same with most other variants.
The one variant of the LR that is decidedly better is the punisher, with the multilaser carnodon just falling flat on its face.
The LR BT, which admittedly is usually the best LR, doesn’t have a clear counterpart in the carnodon. But it is not much better than the (cheaper) autocannon/Volkite carnodon against heavy infantry (it’s better against terminators, but worse against most xenos infantry) and usually weaker than the las carnodon for anti tank duty.
The biggest problem the carnodon faces is the lack of a potms equivalent, more or less forcing it to be Talarn, while LR can get more shots/reroll ones from their regiment.
All in all I think these are fine rules, though maybe a bit bland. It’s not overpowered, but also not so weak that you would never take them. It mostly does what you would expect a light tank to do.

#43
SkimaskMohawk

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thats the main problem, everything new is expected to always overshadow stuff thats already around. no :cuss: given about the rules just a nice boon for people that dont play exclusively 30k. people see only "NEW" and "NOT BETTER THAN X" and react with "WHY SHOULD I USE"... saddens my heart truly

For me it’s not that it’s not new and better than everything else it’s that it’s new and not even as good as everything else. It should at least ignore the movement penalty on its turret weapon.

We don’t want it to be better, but we also aren’t happy if it’s outclassed by everything that already exists because you’re penalising yourself to take it.

But it's not a guard vehicle...

#44
PeteySödes

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$106 USD for a Model-T Predator with Choom? Daaaaaaannng smokey, that's steep. 

 

Haha model-t predator, i love it!



#45
Zuvassin

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Surely you mean the sacred Model-P, first produced under the guidance of Assembly-Lineseer Henricus Fhord of forgeworld Edsel.


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#46
MARK0SIAN

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thats the main problem, everything new is expected to always overshadow stuff thats already around. no :cuss: given about the rules just a nice boon for people that dont play exclusively 30k. people see only "NEW" and "NOT BETTER THAN X" and react with "WHY SHOULD I USE"... saddens my heart truly

For me it’s not that it’s not new and better than everything else it’s that it’s new and not even as good as everything else. It should at least ignore the movement penalty on its turret weapon.

We don’t want it to be better, but we also aren’t happy if it’s outclassed by everything that already exists because you’re penalising yourself to take it.
But it's not a guard vehicle...

I don’t know how you can say it’s not a guard vehicle when It has rules to use with Guard. It is a guard vehicle.

But that’s not really my main point, I was just trying to explain that people aren’t upset because it isn’t better than what’s out there. People just don’t want to have to be deliberately worse off by taking it.

Now I’m not particularly bothered about the rules, in fact if the 40k rules are half-baked because they’ve spent all their time on focussing on the Heresy side of things then that’s something I wholeheartedly support. It’s just not fair to assume people who are complaining about the rules are doing so because they’re power gamers who only want to buy models if they’re brokenly OP and better than everything else available.

#47
Dulahan

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I love the model, and good or not, it's darned tempting to get for my small 'allied' Solar Auxilia detachment to go alongside my Thousand Sons or Custodes.


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#48
Marshal Rohr

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Its an infantry support tank, Solar Auxilia lack infantry based heavy weapons and this bad boi fills in the gap. Its brilliant and I love it. Its not made for fighting a Leman Russ. This thing is built for engaging infantry and medium tanks and does that perfectly well. 


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#49
Lord Marshal

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It's dog ugly compared to the Leman Russ, but I don't care so long as Solar Auxilia/Militia keep getting releases.


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#50
Azekai

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I don’t think it is an amazing model... it looks like a leman Russ assembled backwards. I am pretty sure you could flip the sponsons and do some work with the turret and bam. As long as your Russ is backing up toward the enemy, it’s a Carnodon.

Corruption is our armor. Infection is our weapon. Immortality is our reward.
 

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