Bolt action tanks and vehicles (and other scales)

[Canadian_F_H]

Has anyone done a size comparison of bolt action tanks and vehicles? I'm always looking for things in an appropriate scale to use as homebrew, proxies, conversion, wrecked civilian vehicles for terrain etc.

 

Also any particularly well converted up ww1 and WW2 tanks look like they might actually drive over real terrain than a 40k tanks, so I've had thoughts about tha for over a decade anyways. Lol

[Semper Fortis]

I can't say as I've had any experience with Bolt Action, though I too have been curious. I have been experimenting with some WWII era 1/35 models.

The M31 Tank Recovery Vehicle by Takom is one I have been sporadically playing with for the Ordo Reductor portion of my HH siege force. I've seen a couple of pics of a version for IG that some guy did. Darned if I remember where, but it looked good with his Cadians riding on it. I'm also using some of the photo etch upgrade parts from this kit on it:

[Canadian_F_H]

I had built a 1/35 scale m41 from Tamiya and it's about the size of a landraider. So I don't think that's the best scale to use. I was digging into a lot of info about bolt action last night and I'm thinking 1/50 and 1/56 might be to small... So I'm leaning towards 1/48 presently.

[Subtle Discord]

Yeah, from my research you'll want around 1:35 to 1:48 scale model kits if you want them to fit with the 28mm 'Heroic' scale of 40k. Yes, 1:35 starts to push it, but remember that for the most part vehicle models in 40k are scaled a little smaller then what they would likely be in reality. It also depends on just what model you're using and what it's representing, so some cases are going to be more forgiving than others.

[Lucien Eilam]

Bolt Action tanks are really too small for 40k. Their Sherman looks more like an R35 when put next to even a Rhino chassis, and 40k’s exaggerated proportions make the Warlord stuff look like it was built for hobbits.

 

If you’re one of those people who thinks Space Marines should be closer to 10' than 7', I guess they’d help with that – they look like they could beat the tank to death with its own turret by comparison.

[Jeff Newton]

Bolt Action tanks are 1/56 scale. That is too small to look right. There are a few other companies that make tanks in 1/46 scale. I’m don’t think I have any of the tanks in that scale but I can’t post a picture of a rhino next to a tiger 1in 1/56 scale if you’d like to see that.

[Stoic Raptor]

Everything I've seen would indicate that 1/48 is probably the most suitable scale for using "regular" models in 40K.  And it's common enough that kits are easy to find, even for terrain.

[Canadian_F_H]

Yeah. After years of wondering and failing to find anything decent to convince me one way or the other I stumbled across a few threads about some folks bickering about bolt action scales and I've definitely concluded that 1/48 is the closest common scale to what we should use... So the next step is what kits to use... Followed by appropriate methods and bits for "40-fi-K-tion" of the models.

[Stoic Raptor]

Honestly, I'd recommend finding World War I tank kits.  That's really what 40K Imperial armor is based on.  There's also plenty of scenery available in that scale.

Anyone with a bits box and a little imagination can make the kits more suitable to the game setting.  Back in the early days, that's mostly what we had - well, that and grav tanks made from deodorant sticks, medicine spoons and parts from a Zoid. :D

[Slasher956]

Honestly, I'd recommend finding World War I tank kits.  That's really what 40K Imperial armor is based on. 

 

'cept for things like the Rhino (based off the Britsh FV 432 APC)

[shandwen]

Well, bolt action claims their tanks are 1/56... their scale is somewhat off though. I'd guess they are 1/60 or 1/65. They are way small. Like others have said look at 1/35 scale stuff.

[Venerable Jazzman]

I've always liked this one - http://musingsofametalmind.blogspot.com/2010/01/seats-12-comfortably.html

[Kastor Krieg]

 

Honestly, I'd recommend finding World War I tank kits.  That's really what 40K Imperial armor is based on. 

 

'cept for things like the Rhino (based off the Britsh FV 432 APC)

u wot m8? 

 

Rhino is based straight off US M113.

[Canadian_F_H]

I've always liked this one - http://musingsofametalmind.blogspot.com/2010/01/seats-12-comfortably.html

It doesn't say what scale kit?

 

I also searched what he said he used

 

"WWI mk I Male kit from Emhar"

 

And no mkI turns up. Mostly mkIV. Not that it might actually matter... The same company makes the mkiv tank In 1/35 and 1/72. I'm certain he didn't use 1/72...

 

 

 

Availability is otherwise going to be significant to this plan... 1/48 scale tanks seem to be largely WW2 kits... On certain sites I can get most of them from 18usd to 35usd. Most are between 20usd to 25 USD. With a rather healthy bits box imperialization won't be to hard...

 

I'll find 1 or 3 I really love anyways, and build them. My group is very "oldhammer" and "RPG" centric. So using 3rd edition VDR as a starting point. Having a few archeotanks or something from one of the thousands of human civilizations that fell into compliance is not out-of the question anyways...

[Stoic Raptor]

Rhino is based straight off US M113.

 

 

Rogue Trader-era Rhinos looked like the Deimos Rhino, which is not very similar to an M-113.  And the original Land Raider kits were Proteus pattern.

[shandwen]

 

Rhino is based straight off US M113.

 

 

Rogue Trader-era Rhinos looked like the Deimos Rhino, which is not very similar to an M-113.  And the original Land Raider kits were Proteus pattern.

 

You slap some round doors on the side, warp the shape slightly (as model kits were often rather poor adaptations of the originals back then) and you have an original rhino. But i have been told the first leman russ tanks were taken from a B1Bis kit.

[D3L]

 

 

Honestly, I'd recommend finding World War I tank kits.  That's really what 40K Imperial armor is based on. 

 

'cept for things like the Rhino (based off the Britsh FV 432 APC)

u wot m8? 

 

Rhino is based straight off US M113.

 

considering it's a British company full of British army fans and it is very hard to believe it was an M113, it even looks like an FV432

 

and the "real life" "heroic size" rhino (at GW HQ) is a modified FV432 with modified chassis panels

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/36nsbo/gw_hq_warhammer_worlds_exterior_and_the_11_scale/

 

 

 

So that's a no from me

[Canadian_F_H]

Looked into it. Yeah. The British APC looks more rhino like...

 

I wish they had a VDR app with the rules from back when they had VDR. LOL.

 

I'm torn as to which tanks to use... Some are definitly better than others. And obviously some were smaller IRL then we expect so using a bigger scale sometimes helps. Depending on what you want from them.

 

Also, some kits are very delicate, or many components are delicate. I guess I need to find a bolt-action forum, they would obviously have more experiance with the various tank kits and companies out in the wild.

[Evil Eye]

Some tank kits could work for 40K vehicles, but there are things to consider (aside from the obvious "Can't use it in a GW store" issue).

 

First is the aesthetics. Without heavy conversion and liberal application of styrene/bitz, there's a risk it'll be obvious you've painted an M3 Lee blue and stuck a lascannon on it, which obviously is far from ideal. Also the more realistic details on a scale tank will look out of place next to the somewhat chunkier, more sci-fi detailings on 40K minis.

 

Second is scale. Most larger scale tanks are 1:35, which renders most tanks rather large next to 40K minis, though if you're doing a super-heavy that should be fine. There are 1:48 tanks but they're fewer in number. Also depending on scale, details may look slightly off, and obviously things like hatches, ladders or tools are potentially going to look rather odd.

 

Third is practicality. Scale models are meant as display pieces rather than gaming pieces and so put emphasis on detail over structural integrity/durability. You'll want to be careful with smaller parts (especially photo-etch) when playing games with the models.

 

Fourth is cost. Scale models are often pretty costly, especially newer molds. Some are available for a low-ish price (I got a Tamiya Panzer II for £10 but that's a 1971 tooling!) but a lot of them are often more expensive than the GW counterparts, at least in my experience.

 

That said, I am currently working on making two botched scale tanks into Ork vehicles (a knackered Tamiya Gepard Flakpanzer into a big Orky Dakkatank and a really crappy Airfix 1:76 Sherman into a Grot Tank) and even with the inherent easy nature of Orkifying things, they're gonna take some work. Not helped by the fact I don't have any Ork bitz, or, uh, Orks, but regardless, it will take a fair bit of work to make them look not just like "I bought a scale model and tried to pass it off as a 40K vehicle".

[Noserenda]

On a side not i very much doubt we will ever see full VDR, i was chatting a friend deep inisde the studio shortly after 8th came out about how easy it is to point up some of my weirder vehicles now hulls and points are separate and he definitely implied that wasnt an accident. Ofc directions change so who knows long term.

But if you want to just leave some guns off the horribly overrarmed Primaris tank or change a sponson loadout its pretty darn straightforward, VDR type rules are never going to fly outside of narrative anyway.

[Canadian_F_H]

Well. Most of my problems are solved by the fact that my gaming group is entirely 30+ year olds who approach everything from an RPG players view. Lots of DnD etc. They largely don't care about points. And we don't travel much to play. There are no GW stores nearby. Plus the competitive groups are just to noisy anyways. (12-20 dudes yelling at each other in a space that barely accommodates them and their tables. No thanks)

 

As for price. Almost every 1/48 scale tank kit I have saved on my list is less than 25USD. VS every 40k tank kit which is 50USD on up.

 

We will be using the tanks for homebrew obscure IG/PDF vs homebrew obscure Renegades vs PDF turned Genestealer cults vs looted ORK vehicles.

[SickSix]

There is a really long plog on Dakka of a guy using all sorts of tank models for his custom IG army. I will find it for you.

 

** Found it. Now this is a very long thread but there are some real gems in there. Or you could just PM the guy directly.

 

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/326377.page

[Canadian_F_H]

Sadly, much of that thread suffered terribly thanks to Photobucket...

 

I did nearly finish a 1/48 scale Sherman, for funsies and it was cheap. I never had any intention of using it, so I made it proper. It's a decent size. A bit small IMO. but the Sherman was a small tank. It bodes well for other tanks in 1/48 if they were bigger in real life.

[Lucio]

Main thing with scale kits is the weapons aren't the right scale, so switch out the guns with ones from the appropriate 40k kit

[Gederas]

In regards to using non-GW real tank model kits, Ragnarok Heavy Tank from Epic 40k is literally a KV-2.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/6/62/Ragnarok_Epic.jpg

This is a 1:35 scale KV-2 turret on a Leman Russ:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/8/82/Ragnarok.gif

 

So there's at least one example of a 1:35 tank model working seamlessly with a GW kit, size-wise.