Black Legion Resurrection

[Prot]

Well I'm going to try to keep this short and sweet:

 

As a main resident Chaos player for 4.27 billion years, I have seen a lot of tournie time and play time as almost every Legion, and model you can think of in the Chaos line. (even Emperor's Children).

 

Coming off having sold my Death Guard tournament army, I am using these recent events as a kick off for Black Legion.

 

For the sake of transparency, yes I have started Black Legion as an army many, many times, but have fizzled because of a few reasons the most major being: Abaddon's mini (I made one, and I accidentally through it in a recycling bin (I think)), The Black Legion rules stunk. Difficulty coming up with a unique idea on painting black (that I enjoy).  And finally the main stream chaos models suck, and so do the rules.

 

Well I assume number 1 is resolved with December's releases (or so I pray).  Number 2 has to be resolved at some point.

Number 3 is largely resolved with the recipe I've developed for my Deathwatch over the past year.

And number 4 probably is resolved with Black Fortress as well. (Or at least partially?)

 

I'm taking a big gamble here. I've sold off a lot of stuff and we really don't know -anything- concrete as I write this. But Call of Chaos has forced my hand.

 

So let's assume for a minute this is a real thing, and any additional info anyone can share would be great (so I don't make too big a blunder).

What are the most playable, current models that you think -wouldn't- be replaced? (aside from Cultists).

 

For instance, I don't want to paint Oblits. Love the rules, but I have 9 painted metal ones that I despise.  Let's be honest, they must be queued for replacement!

 

For right now I'm thinking playable, non-replaceable units include:

 

- Preds?

- Rhino's

- Terminators???

- HQ's.

- Bikes?

-Helbrute

And obviously the Forgeworld line up.

 

So first things first is the debate of if I actually do the Black Legion thing or stick out Red Corsairs which haven't been very great for quite a while....

 

Kranon and company are all but dead, so that's out of the question too.

 

My first thought is to build a CSM Kill Team for a campaign and build from there.  Otherwise I'm still leaning towards Thousand Sons version 2.0. (with less Tzaangors)

 

 

 

 

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Step 1: Buy Dark Vengeance and Calth somewhere online. Buy 1 Start Collecting CSM.

 

Step 2: Buy 2 boxes Dark Angel Veterans

 

Step 3: kitbash whole thing together into a Black Lions army.

 

Step 4: Add new Abaddon/Oblits/CSM when they become available. Add Predators, Daemon Princes, and more easy-build Cultists if needed.

 

Mostly current models with cool looking upgrades and nearly any HQ you could need. CSM parts can be spaced throughout the army to reduce the impact of those kits.

[Daemon Prince Marbas]

I would say Chaos Predators are only irreplaceable if you have more than three of them in the army and keep Abaddon in the middle. You may be better off with Havocs made from FW Marines. Chaos Terminators are suffering this edition. Chaos Bikers are usable for Black Legion. Helbrutes are cheap mobile weapon platforms. Chaos Rhinos are essential. I tried to keep that short and to the point.

[Lay]

What are the most playable, current models that you think -wouldn't- be replaced? (aside from Cultists).

 

For instance, I don't want to paint Oblits. Love the rules, but I have 9 painted metal ones that I despise.  Let's be honest, they must be queued for replacement!

 

For right now I'm thinking playable, non-replaceable units include:

 

- Preds?

- Rhino's

- Terminators???

- HQ's.

- Bikes?

-Helbrute

And obviously the Forgeworld line up.

 

Well, bikers are a repack from 3rd edition and Terminators are from 4th. Especially the Termies are really showing their age next to Blightlords. So I expect both to get new models in the future.

 

Same with Rhinos and Landraiders since they look so plain next to stuff like Daemon Engines. Hell, Chaos Landraiders still have aquilas on their tracks! It's like they don't belong to the same army. Wild speculation: Looking how modern Chaos models draw heavily from 30k  (Raptors, Death Guard and Thousand Sons), I expect GW to redesign our tanks using FW's 30k chassis and a lot of trim.

 

Most of our HQs are still resin, even the newish looking ones like the Warpsmith, Dark Apostle and Sorcerer. Those have to get plastic versions eventually. Still worth getting for the sake of variety they'll provide.

 

So, IMO the pool of minis that are here to stay is actually pretty small:

- Forge- and Maulerfiends

- Heldrakes

- Helbrutes

- Raptors/Warptalons

- Plague Marines

- Thousand Sons

- Lord of Skulls

- Cultists (even though that's not the full range of models that came in Dark Vengeance)

 

Dark Vengeance may be OOP, but can still be bought from ebay for a reasonable price. You might want to give the Chosen better weapons (leftover plasma from the Raptor kit for example). They, Vrosh and Kranon also come with smaller bases than what's standard for units of their type.

[Subtle Discord]

Recently I've been pondering more-and-more how I'll be resurrecting my Black Legion project, so don't mind me if I just lurk in the shadows and take a few notes.

[Prot]

By all means lurk away. :tu:

 

I just went through what everyone is suggesting and man it does look dated!

 

I took a picture on my phone of my work desk. I tried sorting through my last Black Legion attempts, and dug up some old Red Corsairs, and found my broken horned Krannon and tried to make a Kill Team out of it. I’m not gonna lie, it’s an ugly pile of chaos.

 

What I derived from that exercise is.... maybe it’s not so bad painting Tzaangors. Lol

[Panzer]

I'd really wait with any chaos project that includes infantry in any form aside from Cultists, Raptors/Talons or DG/TSons unless you really really don't mind the dated models or putting in the extra work of building and painting the army basically twice once new models get released.

It's just disheartening to have the dated models in hand. I realise and appreciate that there are people having fun with their Chaos project with those models and I do follow some of the project threads but when I tried to get my EC going I just couldn't get past the first unit. Maybe I'm just picky but I think with the amount of money I pay and the amount of work put into each army I'm allowed to be picky! :D

[Brother Callidan]

Come back to the loving embrace of Papa Nurgle. He will forgive you for thinking Tzaangors aren’t so bad

[DominikB]

Is there an eta on the new models?

 

I definetely don’t mind the Chaos marine models, even if dated.

 

On actuall topic, I’ve been longe tempted to pick a standard CSM army but I’ve been toying with WB AL or BL for a while so I’ll defo be lurking too.

[Heliomanes]

Maybe some kitbashes using the Sons of Horus models from FW would be a good way to start, and keep you busy until the new models arrive? The Reavers and the Justaerin look great.

[Midnight Brotherhood]

I sold my CSM infantry in anticipation for the new sculpts and just kept my Dark Vengeance cultists and chosen. In the mean time it's fun running more elite / fast attack armies without troops

[Dizzyeye01]

Personally, if you're wanting to delve into the Black Legion but don't like the outdated models then kitbashing will be your best option. The Raptors/Warp Talons box is great for sprucing up models and giving that more mutated feel for your guys and picking out your aspiring champions. What background are you thinking of for your Black Legion? Looking for more Legionaires than renegades? The Calth/Prospero boxes are good for Mk3/Mk4 models along with a few extra pieces if you're not wanting to touch Forge World. A recent chapter absorbed by Abbadon? Use some of the Space Marine range and add it in as recent trophies and what not, You're only limited by your imagination after all so why not experiment? Insane Psychopath has done a great job with his Iron Warriors and a lot of his infantry are based on the old kits mixed in with some of the newer kits form both 40k and Age of Sigmar.

[Lay]

Kitbashing (with Raptor bits) worked for me until Primaris started popping up everywhere. It just looks wrong when Chaos Marines are closer to Cultists in size than they are to Primaris.

Scale creep has become an even bigger issue than aesthetics for me.

[Prot]

some good ideas guys. And I think there's some good cautionary suggestions too.

I really meant it when I said I dug out some junk...

So in this mess I could make a kill team, but I have to be honest I found it pretty hideous.

I know a lot of people may not like the Primaris line as much as I do but you do get spoiled by the clean lines, the crisp detail, etc.

I feel like it made me do a full circle on contemplating finishing my Red Corsairs/Starting Black Legion or just waiting it out. I came to think -IF- GW releases a "Primaris" style Chaos figure, that means they may leave the existing 'Chaos Space Marines' in place like they did for Loyalists (even though they saw a Tactical Squad upgrade/Devastator upgrade in the not too distant past.)

So I may just try something small until we know more. Or as I mentioned... just do something I have for now like Thousand Sons.. or Death Guard. (at least the line up isn't a mystery).

Even when I look at kit bashing like some of you suggest, I am pretty horrible at that stuff. I really don't like doing conversion work. Love painting, but really hate assembly. Some of you guys have done some real admirable work with the existing kits for sure.

I'm looking as forward to the new stuff as anyone but if we don't the extent of the line, I have to be honest it has to be more than a 'squad' of CSM inspired by Black Fortress. I am keeping my fingers crossed as I am sure most of you are too.

[Xenith]

Stuff that will not be replaced

Chaos Lord

Terminators

Hellbrute

Forge/Maulerfiend

Cultists

Raptors

Bikers (SM bikers got resculpted to have a ball and socket join at the hip instead of flat surfaces, chaos already had this)

possessed

daemon prince

Spawn

Rhino chassis tanks

Land raider chassis

Helldrake

 

Stuff that will probably be replaced

Chaos Marines box - to update them to have the hand+gun moulded together deal

 

Stuff that will be replaced (aka Anything finecast)

Mutilators/Obliterators

Havoc box (might be all new sculpts like new marine Dev's set and not just base marines+heavy weapons like before)

Lucius

Noise marines

Abaddon

 

New probably additional boxes

Chaos Sorcerer in power amour

Either a plastic warpsmith or dark apostle

Additional new tank/siege engine.

 

If I was building a C:CSM army from scratch, I'd probably go Alpha legion rules and add in plagues and rubrics with the infiltrate stratagem. I cannot remember what BL rules are - advance and shoot rapid fire weapons? Either of these could synergise with that rule. 

[Trevak Dal]

If you have the drive to do it, get predators and magnetize them so you can use them as Rhinos (so like six total) that way, you got transports or you got a whole lot of big guns. You could also strip them.

 

Did you eBay your Deathguard or do a private sale? A friend of mine is trying to get rid of his eldar.

 

I love Primaris, and if I had known about them I would never have bought 2 b@c boxes.

[Panzer]

Yeah I'd start with vehicles and daemon engines. At least you don't have to expect a Black Legion Codex anytime soon which could potentially remove those options from you (the main reason why I didn't get myself some maulerfiends and heldrakes yet).

[40kChrista]

“So first things first is the debate of if I actually do the Black Legion thing or stick out Red Corsairs which haven't been very great for quite a while....”

 

Why not both? Why limit yourself to one or the other? I use BL for a shooty firebase... usually mass cultists to use the trait... and Renegades for the Advance/Assault... Berserkers, Possesssed, and Raptors. No reason you couldn’t do that. You could also use the that bit of fluff in Traitors Hate about Crimson Slaughter being sent in by the Black Legion to tie it all neatly together.

 

As far as kit bashing goes... Raptor arms are pretty much proportional to Primaris bodies. The kill team I’m making is converted out of the Intercessor box. It’s pretty easy to do since the only imperial insignia you’d have to remove is the on the chest plate. Just use the scads of gear from the CSM box for details and should work fine. The size is great, especially next to a bog standard Cultist. They then look, and feel, like the larger than life Demi-gods worshipped by the cultists that serve them.

 

Just google “Chaos primaris conversions” and you’ll see what mean.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

If you have the drive to do it, get predators and magnetize them so you can use them as Rhinos (so like six total) that way, you got transports or you got a whole lot of big guns. You could also strip them.

 

Did you eBay your Deathguard or do a private sale? A friend of mine is trying to get rid of his eldar.

 

I love Primaris, and if I had known about them I would never have bought 2 b@c boxes.

 

Also, if he didn't eBay his Deathguard.....Plague Marines work great with the BL Legion Trait. Bonus if playing Black Lions because 30k Dark Angels were fascinated with forbidden weapons and the Blight Launcher basically IS the 30k Rad Missile Launcher with a Nurgle twist. 

[Prot]

 

If you have the drive to do it, get predators and magnetize them so you can use them as Rhinos (so like six total) that way, you got transports or you got a whole lot of big guns. You could also strip them.

 

Did you eBay your Deathguard or do a private sale? A friend of mine is trying to get rid of his eldar.

 

I love Primaris, and if I had known about them I would never have bought 2 b@c boxes.

 

Also, if he didn't eBay his Deathguard.....Plague Marines work great with the BL Legion Trait. Bonus if playing Black Lions because 30k Dark Angels were fascinated with forbidden weapons and the Blight Launcher basically IS the 30k Rad Missile Launcher with a Nurgle twist. 

 

 

Actually I did ebay them about a month ago, but I picked up a box of Plaguemarines to start a new scheme, and I used them to make a kill Team. I just finished them:

 

[Panzer]

Now you just need to get another squad to paint them in Black Legion colours. 

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Now you just need to get another squad to paint them in Black Legion colours. 

Or just put some black on those shoulder pads and add at least one black surface that can take an Eye of Horus decal. :)

[40kChrista]

Or go all out even more with black armor with different helmet colors... red for Khorne, green for Nurgle, etc. That way the entire force looks cohesive on the table top while being able to pick out units relatively easy.

 

I still use the 7th ed Codex for inspiration... all my Cult troops will be fashioned after those. i.e. Hounds of Abaddon

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

A note: In low point games you can have a great time with a Dark Apostle as Warlord. In particular, he gets +1Ld for Black Legion and if you give him the Inspiring Leader Warlord trait, he gets another +1, taking him to 11.

 

Then you can share that 11 with whoever you need to. Put him with Cultists and suddenly they can lose 6 men before they care. At that point, 10 man units are almost Fearless. Easy ticket to a cheap Brigade. 20 man Marine blobs are easier to manage too. On top of this, folks within 6 reroll misses in Melee.

 

Given that an Apostle is only 76pts with his gear, he makes a great "Pocket Abaddon."

[Prot]

What a great idea. I am playing 2K but quite honestly I don’t have a clue what to start with using Black Legion.