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Black Legion Resurrection

Black Legion Abaddon Black Fortress Call of Chaos

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52 replies to this topic

#26
Iron Father Ferrum

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Abaddon. I'd start with Abaddon.
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#27
Panzer

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I actually wouldn't considering there are rumours about an Abaddon release soon-ish. :D


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#28
Iron Father Ferrum

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Oh, I'd kit bash a replacement, certainly. But BL's trait and relic are so meh that I feel that Abaddon is the only real reason to run them.
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#29
Panzer

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Yeah can't argue about that.


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#30
Prot

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Okay... you guys twisted my arm! I'm going to just proxy him for now. But I'll have to whip up a list really quick. I intend on getting my Decimators in the game too.


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#31
GreaterChickenofTzeentch

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FYI, you can get a resin Abaddon on ebay for under 15 Dollars American. Easy to combine with pieces from the Terminator Lord box, especially since the head, trophy racks, and those infamous arms are all separate.


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#32
Sonoftherubric21

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I know the general opinion of Chaos Marines is low; but I have had alot of success in my local meta with 20 chaos marines (in rhinos) loaded for bear with Trip-Plasma and Slannesh marked.  

It takes 4 command points, but the end result is 12 overcharged plasma shots and 28 bolter shots, re rolling all misses with no one needing to babysit them for an aura, wounding on +1 so a T7 vehicle has a very good chance of being wrecked outright by a squad doing this.  Squad cost is 170 + Rhino. I usually take 2 of this unit in many games, and then have plenty for Cultists, Tanks, Walkers, and everything in between.  (Let the Galaxy Burn, Vets of the Long War, and Endless Cacophony) 

 

I also use my Black Legion generally as a fire-base type list, I run havocs, noise marines, couple of Las-auto cannon Predators, and 30-40 cultists as chaff to gum up the opponents. As well as a Helbrute, and often a Warpsmith to support the tanks and char-broil whatever gets close (combi-flamer load out, 2d6 shots + bolter + melta gun)  I have found Warpsmiths are dangerous and cheap, both things that are good for quality units, if taking multiple vehicles they are a no-brainer IMHO. Raptors (5 mans only) I have also had alot of success with, drop a triple-plasma squad down turn 2 and fry something important.  

The "pocket abaddon" build for the Apostle is great, I had never thought of that. Great for a melee-centric build, if thats the way you go. 


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#33
Prot

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FYI, you can get a resin Abaddon on ebay for under 15 Dollars American. Easy to combine with pieces from the Terminator Lord box, especially since the head, trophy racks, and those infamous arms are all separate.

 

I actually did that. I combined resin head and Talon with the plastic lord. I assembled a retinue of plastic termies to go with him. Get this... I put in a box so I wouldn't lose it...I threw it in the garbage thinking it was a spent box of bits I had laying around. I just about blew a gasket when I realized what I did. :)

 

I've not revisited the project since I did that. lol


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#34
GreaterChickenofTzeentch

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The "pocket abaddon" build for the Apostle is great, I had never thought of that. Great for a melee-centric build, if thats the way you go.

Apostle can have a Combi-Weapon if you want him to be shootier and he can even advance and fire it once because Black Legion.

I also just noticed that in a larger game you could run 3 Apostles with 1 as Warlord and put them 6 in from each other. Then they all would "Go to 11."

This would make the entire army both durable and difficult to charge. Abaddon provides CP's and lots of raw power (way more than this approach), but this might be a way to go if you prefer to sacrifice that for redundancy.

 

You could also use any character with a flexible Warlord Trait as the "server" with two Apostles as the "routers," since what matters is that an Apostle gets to Leadership 11 somehow.


Edited by GreaterChickenofTzeentch, 21 September 2018 - 07:52 PM.


#35
GreaterChickenofTzeentch

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I actually did that. I combined resin head and Talon with the plastic lord. I assembled a retinue of plastic termies to go with him. Get this... I put in a box so I wouldn't lose it...I threw it in the garbage thinking it was a spent box of bits I had laying around. I just about blew a gasket when I realized what I did. :)

I've not revisited the project since I did that. lol


Another way to go is to buy the Terminator Captain from Calth and swap in the arms, trophies, and head from Abaddon plus some of the Lord accessories. Gives you a more modern, heavyweight model and reflects the fact that his armor really should be Cataphractii.

Edited by GreaterChickenofTzeentch, 21 September 2018 - 07:06 PM.

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#36
Prot

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oh I like that. Any pics of that? Did you do it?


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#37
GreaterChickenofTzeentch

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oh I like that. Any pics of that? Did you do it?

Nope. Just an idea that came to mind. Might want to try it out. :)



#38
Subtle Discord

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Oooo... Yeah, I like that too. Damn these boards are going to be the death of me with all this cognative overload. Too many good ideas, never enough time!

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#39
El_Dicko

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I actually did that. I combined resin head and Talon with the plastic lord. I assembled a retinue of plastic termies to go with him. Get this... I put in a box so I wouldn't lose it...I threw it in the garbage thinking it was a spent box of bits I had laying around. I just about blew a gasket when I realized what I did. :)

I've not revisited the project since I did that. lol

Another way to go is to buy the Terminator Captain from Calth and swap in the arms, trophies, and head from Abaddon plus some of the Lord accessories. Gives you a more modern, heavyweight model and reflects the fact that his armor really should be Cataphractii.

Oh damn it, and I just happen to have that model with no arms and a swapped in Hellstrider head at the moment... I think I’ve pushed too far Toward Emperors Children already but damn if that isn’t a great idea!

#40
ChazSexington

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I don't think Renegades/Red Corsairs are bad actually. They have very decent bikes!

But I think you're gambling, hard, on a few things:
New Armless Wonder model

Blackstone Fortress models

 

I'm 95% sure that the Blackstone Fortress models are gonna be monopose snap-fit, and I'm definitely not holding my breath for a new Abaddon model. He's, what, 22? 23? Sure, he's our oldest together with Fabius, but we're still Chaos Space Marines. We're not Space Marines, and Abaddon isn't a Primaris Lieutenant warranting a new model every second month (literally). 


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#41
Slan Drakkos

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Honestly, why is abaddon's model such a big discussion? Just buy the forgeworld model, put some trophy racks and skulls on it, add some green stuff for appropriate spikes, and add his sword and his talon and be done with it.

#42
Gederas

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Honestly, why is abaddon's model such a big discussion? Just buy the forgeworld model, put some trophy racks and skulls on it, add some green stuff for appropriate spikes, and add his sword and his talon and be done with it.

Because his Forge World model is also smaller than the current range.

New Khârn and Ahriman are taller than that model, even discounting the pose Abby is in.



#43
Slan Drakkos

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Because his Forge World model is also smaller than the current range.
New Khârn and Ahriman are taller than that model, even discounting the pose Abby is in.

hmm, I see the problem then. Does it really matter how tall the model is though? I mean, it's just going to be a placeholder for him before the real Abaddon comes out right?

Until GW makes a new model for him, the only options are his model being a little bit too small, too big (if you convert Horus into Abby), or taking too much time and effort (cutting him up and using greenstuff to make him taller). I'd suggest that the OP picks his poison and moves on to the real problem, what he's going to play and how he's going to get good models for BL.
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#44
Iron Father Ferrum

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Just use the plastic Terminator Lord with the appropriate bits from Abby's model. Bob's your uncle.
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#45
MyD4rkPassenger

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Just use the plastic Terminator Lord with the appropriate bits from Abby's model. Bob's your uncle.

Many of the cooler conversions I have seen of him have been based off this kit, I think it's a great option and looks slick.


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#46
techsoldaten

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Here's my advice on how to succeed with a Black Legion list.

 

1) Start with Abaddon, a DP, 3x 10x CSM squads with 2 Lascannons each, 3x Laspreds, 2x 15x Cultists. Take other units, but focus on ones with ranged firepower. Helbrutes with scourges and lascannons can fill this role, but take what you want.

 

2) Every game, deploy as far back as possible on your table edge. Try to go second and use the new cover Stratagem first turn. Try not to move your army unless necessary and let your opponent come to you.

 

3) Deploy so that everyone is conga-lined back to Abaddon for rerolling all failed hit rolls and morale immunity. In an objectives mission, spread units out to cover as much as possible while still remaining conga-lined. Let your guns do the work.

 

The 2018 Fall FAQ heavily favors gunline armies and Abaddon is the best gunline general in 40k. Play to his strengths. Lay down 20+ lascannon shots per turn out of range of most enemy units and use beatsticks + 60x bolter shots to flatten anything that gets close.

 

You're going to find most armies don't have the tools to fight back.

 

My other lists have 120 Cultists, Decimators with Soulburners, Noise Marine spam, Obliterator spam, Contemptor spam, Spartans / Kharybdis Assault Claws, etc. The gunline outperforms each of them in terms of wounds dealt per turn, but, more importantly, it's has better versatility. Except for Tau, Shield Captain Custodes, and Dark Eldar flyer spam, it competes well against other armies.

 

And it only works with Black Legion. Other Legions are only capable of rerolling ones to hit. For added fun, swap the Laspreds with Scorpiuses.


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#47
Panzer

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2) Every game, deploy as far back as possible on your table edge. Try to go second and use the new cover Stratagem first turn. Try not to move your army unless necessary and let your opponent come to you.

 

 

That sounds like a perfect way to lose on objectives. Also going second is still worse than going first. Having your whole undamaged army shooting at an army in cover is better than having a damaged army shooting at an army not in cover.


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#48
techsoldaten

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2) Every game, deploy as far back as possible on your table edge. Try to go second and use the new cover Stratagem first turn. Try not to move your army unless necessary and let your opponent come to you.

 

 

That sounds like a perfect way to lose on objectives. Also going second is still worse than going first. Having your whole undamaged army shooting at an army in cover is better than having a damaged army shooting at an army not in cover.

 

 

Objectives only matter when your opponent can stay on them. 20+ rerollable lascannon shots make that hard.

 

With 80+ models, grabbing the objectives on your side of the board is not very challenging. Especially once you've thinned the herd.



#49
Panzer

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That's Lascannon overkill tho. Not everyone is playing a Horde army. Also objectives don't just matter if you can stay on them. Your opponent can sacrifice some units to capture objectives and then hide from you and prevent you from taking objectives as well. He needs to keep his lead, not stay on every objective for the whole game.

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#50
techsoldaten

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That's Lascannon overkill tho. Not everyone is playing a Horde army. Also objectives don't just matter if you can stay on them. Your opponent can sacrifice some units to capture objectives and then hide from you and prevent you from taking objectives as well. He needs to keep his lead, not stay on every objective for the whole game.

 

Thank you for explaining.

 

Having played 60+ games with this list since the start of 8th, what you described does not happen. You may taking what I said about movement too literally.

 

Most often, what does happen is:

 

Turn One - My opponent loses most of his armor and most of his elite units. I lose a Predator and maybe a Helbrute.

 

Turn Two - My opponent loses the rest of his units with range to shoot at mine. I do a lot of wounds with lascannons, since there's at least 16 left and they are mostly targeting units that are T6 and below (with rerolls to hit, making wounds likely.)

 

Turn Three - My opponent closes in for mid-range shooting and charges! My Cultist screen takes the charges and falls back or gets destroyed. The lascannons continue doing their thing.

 

Turn Four - My response is CSMs pumping 60 bolter shots into whatever charged and my DP / Abaddon / Helbrutes charging. The lascannons continue doing their thing.

 

Turn Five - My opponent's army now consists of whatever has good invulnerable saves, flyers, and severely damaged troop units, if he hasn't been tabled. I have a lot of options for the end of the game, he doesn't.

 

It doesn't always work out this way. But it usually does.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Black Legion, Abaddon, Black Fortress, Call of Chaos

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