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Help needed against Craftworlds eldar


TheUbikator

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So've met this great guy who plays CE in my local gaming pub.

 

He plays Iyanden with wraithguard+farseer+spiritseer+warlock deathstar supported by 2 crimson hunter exarchs, wraithblades in a wave serpent, 20 models guardians squad, couple ranger squads and 2 wraithlords.

 

First game I tried with a fluffy list with deathwatch kill team in Corvus and teleporting dread, with guard battalion in chimeras and with tank commander. It has ended in a complete slaughter. So for our rematch, I've brought Banesword guard battalion in chimeras (5 chimeras total) and a tank commander and 2 leman russes. Unfortunately, even with a stronger list, it wasn't enough. With Lighting fast reflexes, conceal, WS -1 to hit with advance, his flyers and protect I wasn't able to score enough hits/wounds past turn 1 to do meaningful damage, and when his blob of death reaches my units (or my units enter his reach) I get hit with doom, guide, jinx and a ton of different psychic powers and get shot to bits.

 

I just don't know what to do, without going full cheese and proxying a lot of stuff.

 

I was thinking about allying custodes termies or deploying melee kill team with thunder hammers and heavy thunder hammers but they'll be shot when they deep strike or just got hit with lightning fast reflexes when they reach melee (and hitting on 5s with hammers is a bad deal). Then I thought about deploying 6 or so basilisks but, he'll probably hide in a webway. And beside that even with cadian strategems they'll just loose 3 - 4 models per shooting phase. I just don't know what to do... any suggestions?

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First things first Ubik: you play the noble Guard and he plays the perfidious Eldar so you've already won the most important victory. Each game this immutable fact gnaws away at this soul until eventually nothing will remain. Until then though, there's some games to be won :wink:

 

Taking a step back is always a good initial response. What is your opponent doing that wins? Such lists send to be somewhat one dimensional, for he can only win with his deathstar - all his eggs in one basket so to speak. This means you need to counter that directly.

 

The Guard's response to boring deathstars is unchanged in a long time, for deathstars love big expensive units they can pour their efforts into, as it's what they're good at. If you focus on quantity over quality he will find his big expensive deathstar looking a bit limp as it aimlessly moves from cheap squad to cheap squad :laugh.:

 

Infantry don't do much killing though, so you're going to need some heavy hitters too but with lots of infantry to form layers of bubble wrapping he'll find it hard to close in on them for the psychic powers etc. You can keep some cheap psykers of your own nearby to try and help deny too.

 

The rest of his list is mostly support for this, though it'll still be capable of causing trouble so don't ignore it completely. Whatever your opponent does find a way to turn it to your advantage, so for example if he starts trying to force a path to your heavy hitting centre that means you know where he's going.

 

 

I don't want to go into too much detail, as I don't think it's the best response - you're looking to win, not us! A list of units you have might be useful though, for example Hellhounds are nice and will BBQ xenos easily (plus score hits for overlapping fire...) and you might want to consider some dedicated anti-air.

 

As a parting shot; while the Eldar are top tier with fancy rules coming out of their mutant ears that only means it's harder by comparison. The most important asset in the fight for victory is yourself, so make sure you're good on rules (both yours, and opponent's) and always improving. You learn more from defeat after all :smile.:

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His deathstar looks to be psychic based if i am correct? get a cullexus assassin or 3. an 18" -2 to cast and deny bubble, being immune to psychic and only being hit on 6s is very nice for 85 points. 

 

Also hellhounds don't care if your opponent has negatives to hit, they just keep at it. 

 

If you want to go cheese. there is always the custard creams on bikes (shield captains on bikes) which can do a fair bit of damage. 

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Against Eldar, I recommend that you engage them blade to blade, gun to gun, and, perhaps most importantly here, mind to mind. Field some psykers so that you can at least attempt to deny those witches their ill-gotten advantages.

 

Hellhounds are magic against the perfidious eldar. Auto-hits don't care about modifiers. S6 means 2s and 3s to wound. And, if they kill it, then you're in a good place since you might blow up and take a few endangered species with you.

 

Don't be afraid to bayonet them, especially guardians. As much as I love the chimera, this edition isn't kind to it and more bodies is a better investment. Two infantry squads can charge many eldar units and successfully earn their keep in melee. This surprises a lot of people but those people lack faith. Teach them otherwise.

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And that is a *friendly* Eldar list: had he gone for Alaitoc you would have 0 chances with guard. Such is the balance of 8th ed at the moment, due to a few codex which are frankly crazily overpowered.

Try Hellhounds and psychic defence (Inquisitor special characters? I doubt Culexus will do anything good). Generally you want to close in and engage, even in melee: as long as he uses Crimson Hunters rather than (again absurdly powerful) Hemlocks, 3 allied Custodes Captains on bike will serve you well...

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The other option is to speak to him. If he is a great guy just explain you’re finding it a bit dull going up against all that and ask him to vary his lists a bit.

 

If he insists on sticking to the same boring list, Warrior Fish has already mentioned a good option. Out-bore him :) put down so many infantry he’ll just get bored trying to chew through them. His expensive Death Star will take five turns to kill its own value in cheap infantry. You could also add in some astropaths to strip away cover bonuses.

 

Culexus assassin is good but you could also try some Eversor assassins. They can deep strike and because they get 3D6 charge they’re pretty reliable getting into combat. The added bonus is if the Eldar kill them before they can strike there’s a good chance they’ll blow up for some mortal wounds on the units. Great against death stars because it’s mortal wounds for the multiple units in a death star. Throw three of them at the death star as soon as you can and they’ll either kill it, tarpit it or inflict enough damage to radically reduce its efficacy. I’ve been on the end of a multiple Eversor list and it was horrendous to deal with.

 

Or if you can wait there’s always the very slim chance that the next FAQ or Chapter approved might reign in Eldar a bit. I wouldn’t bank on it though, Eldar of all varieties seem to be a favourite of the game designers.

 

Sadly though, Feral_80 has the measure of it. In 8th edition Eldar are pretty close to an auto win army so you might be better off trying to find a different opponent.

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Thank you, guys! Lots of good ideas seem like I'll need to buy some assassins then :wink: What are your opinions on vindicare assasins for sniping those pesky psykers? 

 

And that is a *friendly* Eldar list: had he gone for Alaitoc you would have 0 chances with guard. Such is the balance of 8th ed at the moment, due to a few codex which are frankly crazily overpowered.
Try Hellhounds and psychic defence (Inquisitor special characters? I doubt Culexus will do anything good). Generally you want to close in and engage, even in melee: as long as he uses Crimson Hunters rather than (again absurdly powerful) Hemlocks, 3 allied Custodes Captains on bike will serve you well...

From what I've talked to him, he despises players who go for Altaioc by default. (he actually has a painted army in Iyanden colours) Just like I don't bring grand strategist w/ aquila every game. It's actually quite sad (those 2 games were my 2 first games against CE this edition), that I need to list tailor or go for cheese to have some decent chance against him. The biggest problem I find is that wraithguard is 17' radious blob of death, with T6 and 30 wounds total. I can't take them down with massed lasgun fire because lasguns wound them on 6s, heavy bolters (which would be the best counter if they were T5) wound them on 5+... I can't tarpit them because they can fall back and shoot. I mean after he casted protect and conceal on them, they turn into unit of 10 models with 2+ save, T6 and -1 or -2 to hit with strategem... With alaitoc I wouldn't be able to hit them at all. Just crazy...

 

Also conceal, is waaay to cheap to cast. Should be warp charge 7 if not an 8.

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Getting slaughtered by Craftworld Eldar isn't your fault. Eldar are massive OP this Edition.

But jokes aside

As many Mention before use flamers and Psykers to negate much of the Enemy

Also the Chimera is just a waste of Points, try something other.

Scout Sentinels with Flamers where my favorite to do so

Scout them forward, hope for first Turn, then move them into the Enemy's face, burn some of them, use the Cadia Stratagem for +1 to hit, shoot them back into the webway gate they dared to crawl out.

If something survive charge with the Sentinels.

 

But the sad truth is that Eldar are way to strong and you almost have to tailor to stand a chance.

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I haven't had much luck against them tbh, my strongest assets were 3 leman russes with 3xheavy bolters, stubber and battlecannon. And 3 hellhounds. 
If i would play them now, i'd run at least 6 infantry squads, 3-6 hellhounds and a couple russes in the backline to give fire support. 

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Getting slaughtered by Craftworld Eldar isn't your fault. Eldar are massive OP this Edition.

But jokes aside

As many Mention before use flamers and Psykers to negate much of the Enemy

Also the Chimera is just a waste of Points, try something other.

Scout Sentinels with Flamers where my favorite to do so

Scout them forward, hope for first Turn, then move them into the Enemy's face, burn some of them, use the Cadia Stratagem for +1 to hit, shoot them back into the webway gate they dared to crawl out.

If something survive charge with the Sentinels.

 

But the sad truth is that Eldar are way to strong and you almost have to tailor to stand a chance.

Not just this edition, bud ;)

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We all need help against those filthy knife ears.

 

Flamers don’t give a hoot about how many negative modifiers the enemy has, and we happen to have very strong ones on relatively quick delivery systems.

 

Get in there and bathe the heathen xenos in the emperors holy lighter fluid and promethium. BBQ’d Eldar is really the best Eldar.

 

Now ask me about propane accessories.

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While not applicable to this list in particular, what really bothers me is double moving Shining Spears and Ynnari Dark Reapers. That is enough fire power to kill all out infantry. And don't get me started on deep striking Guardian blobs deleting your bubble wrap...

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