Disappointed with leaders?

[Beams]

 

After a few games, I realized how important CP generation was, and how easy my opponents were able to pick off my leader. So now my leader is a cowardly grot, who hides away from the battle, and he's much harder to kill, while my Boss Nob is a combat specialist.

 

Has anyone else felt similarly? And if so, how do we let GW know how disappointed we are in our fluffy, elite forces being lead by grots (or grot equivalents...)?

[Calyptra]

The Grot "adviser" as your leader is smart choice, and it's actually pretty fluffy too (the Grot power behind the throne has always been a thing), but I'm not at all convinced that it's the only choice. I also think it will vary from team to team.

 

I've been playing against a lot of Orks. When there's a Grot in charge, it's not that difficult for me to get a Wych or two over to where the Gretchin "adviser" is hiding.

 

I use a Sybarite for my leader. I generally hold her back in a support position during the early game, and get more aggressive with her during the late game. I think I've only had her be taken out of action once, in my very first game.

 

I think the Leader 1 tactic is actually pretty strong, provided you're playing a team with melee combat options, especially on a turn when your leader charged. If you chain it with the Combat 1 tactic, you're spending 2 CP to attack with 3 models in a row in the fight phase. You just don't want your leader running around on their own, and that makes sense, because a character who is running around on their own isn't leading.

 

Overall, I like the mechanic. Leadership really is a support role - it's why Captain Picard stayed on the ship during away missions - and the ability to disrupt your opponent's CP generation makes the game a lot more interesting. Outside of campaigns, I do think that some teams get the short end of the stick (or possibly the pointy end of the stick), when the only model in the team who can be equipped for melee is stuck with a tactic that lets another model fight in melee who doesn't want to. In campaigns, a level 2 leader can support shooting attacks as well, so then everybody should be happy.

[Panzer]

The Leader being at his best while hiding is very disappointing, yeah.

[Panzer]

I think it could easily get fixed by Leader having automatically more wounds since trying to kill the Leader to maybe put just a Flesh Wound on a him would be a lot of wasted shots you could have used to take out some other models instead.

[Azekai]

Granted, generals should be protected, but the rules don't quite fit the narrative- leaders in KT aren't the sort to be sequestered off in a command tent. They are sergeants or lesser champions of Chaos or expendable leader-beasts.

It would be cool if leaders got +1 CP generated for enemies personally killed within 6" or something like that. Incentivizes risky play, rather than rewarding passive play. 

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[RandomMarine]

Yeah it's pretty stupid that a twistbray is my leader for my thousand sons and my aspiring sorcerer is a combat specialist.

[Halfpint100]

It is the balance between fluff and combat effectiveness

[Beams]

I feel it's really unfluffy to have a grot, a twistbray, or a special weapons guy ordering around a Bossnob/Sorcerer/Tempestor, and its annoying...

[Calyptra]

I feel it's really unfluffy to have a grot, a twistbray, or a special weapons guy ordering around a Bossnob/Sorcerer/Tempestor, and its annoying...

 

The grot advisor acting as the power behind the Boss's throne is extremely fluffy. The Nob is officially in charge, but all his decisions are based on the Gretchin whispering in his ear. That dynamic is straight out of the lore.

 

Sorcerers and Tempestors, not so much.

 

If your team leader is hiding in the back, I will probably be able to sack them with Wyches. It's significantly harder for me to eliminate a leader who is with their team and able to defend themself.

[Beams]

 

 

I feel it's really unfluffy to have a grot, a twistbray, or a special weapons guy ordering around a Bossnob/Sorcerer/Tempestor, and its annoying...

The grot advisor acting as the power behind the Boss's throne is extremely fluffy. The Nob is officially in charge, but all his decisions are based on the Gretchin whispering in his ear. That dynamic is straight out of the lore.

 

Sorcerers and Tempestors, not so much.

 

If your team leader is hiding in the back, I will probably be able to sack them with Wyches. It's significantly harder for me to eliminate a leader who is with their team and able to defend themself.

I mean, in the specific case of dark Eldar, maybe. You'll still have 11 Orks fighting you in melee. Also, dark Eldar is the exemption, since most armies gave enough shooting to kill a single model easily enough.

[Calyptra]

I'm not familiar with every team in the game, but I feel like Harlequins and Tau gun drones would also have pretty good odds of taking out a grot leader hiding in the back.

[Mordekiem]

So how about that new commanders box?  Does that change anyone's ideas about your leaders?

[Panzer]

So how about that new commanders box?  Does that change anyone's ideas about your leaders?

 

Commander aren't Leaders. Commander are Commander. You will still have Leader in your kill team alongside with a Commander IF the game allows them.

And there we come to the next thing. Commanders aren't part of the regular rules. You can only use Commanders if you play a mission that allows them or if you and your opponent agree on using them. They are basically named/special characters tacked on to your regular team.

 

That being said Commander seem to feel more like what we'd expect Leader to be. A model that can take a bit more of a punch and wants to be in the middle of their team or at the front rather than hiding in the back.

[Raven1]

Definitely a difference between what is fluffy and what is good on the table top. In my recent games with my deathwatch killteam the watchmaster is either a veteran/combat specialist and the leader is an Intercessor sergeant hanging in the back. 30" range gun with 2 wounds always concealed as best i can. Its ok as my leader you know is a leader but i definitely made the switch because of effectiveness on the tabletop on fluff. I hadnt thought about it for my TS killteam. Honestly ill probably switch it to a Twistbray and give my sorcerer combat or zealot since he seems to get stuck in most of the time.

[Beams]

I am enjoying my grot leader, he's basically small and harmless enough that most people forget about him. He also killed a death guard heavy with a lucky shot (actually, the only shot he's taken so far)

 

But I am looking forward to using Commanders so I have a more traditional "leader".

[Excessus]

My AM team has only two models that can have close combat equipment, so I use them for counter-attack situations and use LoS efficiently to protect them...doesn't help against Harlequins though...nothing does...

[Kastor Krieg]

It's pretty nicely solved with the Starstriders - they have an abundance of protection (healing, 5++, a free death cult assassin, etc.) for the leader who has a short range weapon that's really powerful up close. But yeah, default teams need to work around this problem.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Keep in mind that in campaign play the leader starts to hand out rerolls, making them less likely to hide in the back

[RandomMarine]

With commanders I feel the issue has been somewhat mitigated , in my TS when playing commanders I no longer run the twistbray and aspiring back to leader with exhaled as commander, wasn't really a issue for my DG as they only have a single leader option and my Astartes I still run a intercessor Sgt as leader with a cheap Lt

[Wichrun]

My biggest disappointment was lack of rules for using Watch Captain Artemis as commander. Every DW player has this miniature and he could be more useful than over 125 pts worth one man army watch master. I know they want to push primaris range forward but c'mon that was just nasty lack of good will.