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Ork Codex Leaks


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#226
Slasher956

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they arent for sale on GWs site... and if GW arent selling it then its not in the codex as a general rule of thumb



#227
Scammel

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That's a shame. Kannon and Lobbaz are relics of a certain period of gritty 40k which I very much enjoyed, when the Dreadnoughts were square and the scariest thing on the battlefield was a WWI-era tank.


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#228
PiñaColada

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https://www.warhamme...omepage-post-2/ 

New article up on the community page 

They say the list comes up to about 2000 points, PL so that checks out. Maybe there's a way to extrapolate the worth of some of the units by it still though? 

A Trukk is 3PL instead of 5 from the index, that's a nice start 
Nobz 7PL instead of 11 
Nob with banner is the same 
Warbikers are 4PL instead of 5 
The Morkanaut is 15PL down from 18 
Big Mek down to 4PL from 5 
Boyz are 4PL down from 5 (don't know what's up with this) 
The Kustom Boosta-blasta, Boomdakka Snazzwagon, Megatrakka Scrapjet are 5PL 
The Shokkjump Dragsta & Deffkilla Wartrike are 6 PL 
The Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy is 7PL (WHAT the hell GW?)


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#229
Scammel

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What does 5PL roughly equate to these days? Wouldn't surprise me if we ended up with armies comprised almost entirely of buggies.



#230
Biscuittzz

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Problem I would see with the supposed strategems to upgrade a unit to something better is that they are just circumventing the real issue i.e. an actually balanced points system. I think strategems like this, while very flexible in terms of modelling and diversity, is just kicking the can further down the road with regards the proper implementation of a balanced points system.

 

As an aside, would this have any implications for the "no rules for units without models"?



#231
PiñaColada

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What does 5PL roughly equate to these days? Wouldn't surprise me if we ended up with armies comprised almost entirely of buggies.

The math is roughly 1PL equals 20 points. So 5PL should be in the 90-110 range



#232
Triszin

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https://www.warhamme...omepage-post-2/ 

New article up on the community page 

They say the list comes up to about 2000 points, PL so that checks out. Maybe there's a way to extrapolate the worth of some of the units by it still though? 

A Trukk is 3PL instead of 5 from the index, that's a nice start 
Nobz 7PL instead of 11 
Nob with banner is the same 
Warbikers are 4PL instead of 5 
The Morkanaut is 15PL down from 18 
Big Mek down to 4PL from 5 
Boyz are 4PL down from 5 (don't know what's up with this) 
The Kustom Boosta-blasta, Boomdakka Snazzwagon, Megatrakka Scrapjet are 5PL 
The Shokkjump Dragsta & Deffkilla Wartrike are 6 PL 
The Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy is 7PL (WHAT the hell GW?)

ruka truck has a high cost because of how well rounded its capabilities are I think.


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banana


#233
Vel'Cona

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Trukk savings is huge, hoping points value comes in closer to 40-50 to keep up with the cost creep in other faction's transports.  This seems to mesh with the Boyz PL reduction to bolster numbers, that being said I doubt we'll see a drop from their current reasonable points cost.

 

Based on all the leaks thus far, Dragsta looks like the champ by dint of its accuracy, speed and hitting power.  Boosta-Blasta and Snazzwagon are both solid for the low cost and offer excellent volume of fire which will synergize well with DDD (and the Snazzwagon is also the most durable thanks to -1 to hit).  Squigbuggy looks "fun" but ultimately its flexibility is somewhat offset by that price hike, especially given it doesn't appear to have gained anything in durability (and random shots is awful).

 

Hoping the Morkanaut's main gun is de-randomized a la the Gorkanaut leak, because at the moment it's looking like the latter is going to trounce its kunnin' counterpart tongue.png


Edited by Vel'Cona, Today, 03:20 PM.

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#234
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Trukk savings is huge, hoping points value comes in closer to 40-50 to keep up with the cost creep in other faction's transports.  This seems to mesh with the Boyz PL reduction to bolster numbers, that being said I doubt we'll see a drop from their current reasonable points cost.

 

Based on all the leaks thus far, Dragsta looks like the champ by dint of its accuracy, speed and hitting power.  Boosta-Blasta and Snazzwagon are both solid for the low cost and offer excellent volume of fire which will synergize well with DDD (and the Snazzwagon is also the most durable thanks to -1 to hit).  Squigbuggy looks "fun" but ultimately its flexibility is somewhat offset by that price hike, especially given it doesn't appear to have gained anything in durability (and random shots is awful).

 

Hoping the Morkanaut's main gun is de-randomized a la the Gorkanaut leak, because at the moment it's looking like the latter is going to trounce its kunnin' counterpart tongue.png

I'd be stoked if a trukk is dropped to 50 points, any less than that and I'd feel dirty for fielding something so (comparatively speaking) durable for peanuts.


Edited by PiñaColada, Today, 03:23 PM.


#235
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Are Orks the first army to have PL changes? 
That Speed Freaks list looks like a lot of fun! 


Edited by Warhead01, Today, 03:26 PM.

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#236
wildweasel

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Are Orks the first army to have PL changes? 
That Speed Freaks list looks like a lot of fun! 

 

No, PL changes go hand-in-hand witht he points adjustment when going from Index to Codex.


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#237
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Are Orks the first army to have PL changes? 
That Speed Freaks list looks like a lot of fun! 

 

No, PL changes go hand-in-hand witht he points adjustment when going from Index to Codex.

 

Alright. I had no idea I don't own a codex yet. biggrin.png 
I'd never seen it come up before so I had no idea.


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#238
toaae

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I started trying to guess the ranges of points based on PL, but that way lies madness. It's also worth keeping in mind that index PL were figured out with 28 point power klaws (or whatever it was) included.

But it is good seeing that basically everything went down, gives me hope. I am worried that bikers might not get enough changed, as they aren't nearly strong enough for their points. Anymore than 22 a biker, and I just can't see taking them.
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#239
PiñaColada

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I started trying to guess the ranges of points based on PL, but that way lies madness. It's also worth keeping in mind that index PL were figured out with 28 point power klaws (or whatever it was) included.

But it is good seeing that basically everything went down, gives me hope. I am worried that bikers might not get enough changed, as they aren't nearly strong enough for their points. Anymore than 22 a biker, and I just can't see taking them.

They might give bikers some extra shots and/or more cc attacks. They're also going to be really quick if you're playing evil sunz and you can throw the -1 to hit stratagem on a big unit now. I doubt they'll be top tier but I wouldn't be surprised if they become a lot better. I like the models so I'll run them in either case but that has been pretty tough with the index datasheets



#240
DuskRaider

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So... 'Ard Boyz have been dropped from a 4+ to a 5+ and then further gimped by making them a CP instead of an upgrade... that's dumb. Really dumb. Same with Skarboyz, why not just make them upgrades to the regular Boyz instead of more reliance on the stupid CP system?
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#241
toaae

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So... 'Ard Boyz have been dropped from a 4+ to a 5+ and then further gimped by making them a CP instead of an upgrade... that's dumb. Really dumb. Same with Skarboyz, why not just make them upgrades to the regular Boyz instead of more reliance on the stupid CP system?

 

I actually called this out as a potential way for them to go with 'Ard boyz. It makes sense to me, and it might even be good. We have the ability to fill battalions easily for command points, and depending on what other options we have, it might be an effective tactic. Furthermore, if you often face large numbers of basic, AP0 guns, it could be worth it's points, especially if you're Blood Axe or Snakebites (with their leaked traits, assuming). If you have Goffs and large mobs, taking Skarboyz seems to be a no brainer to me. When 'Ard boyz used to cost near double a boy, using some command points on these upgrades seems like a great trade-off.

But if you don't like the CP system in general, I can see how this is another unnecessary kick in the groin.

Finally, whats with people suggesting using fantasy Orcs? We were making 'Ard boyz out of the base Ork boy kit for years, just making sure to use the chest pieces with metal plates, helmets, shoulder pads, and some iron gobs here and there.


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#242
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I don't see how it could be good. You're wasting CP on something that should simply be a unit upgrade. Which as I pointed out, they've made worse.
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#243
Redtoof

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2cp for a 5+ save does feel a bit steep. I’ll probably still do it occasionally but it feels like if that is how it works, it’ll rarely be worth it. On the plus side you can pick and choose before the game so if you are up against a wall of lasguns it might be worth it, but if you are facing Thousand Sons, not so much.

My bank account is very happy for the prospect of squig buggies that cost too many points to be worth fielding. Or buying.

As an aside, I noticed someone earlier in the thread mentioned that most people try to take as little ap 0 weapons as possible. While this is often true, it still feels weird to me that we are supposedly in a horde meta, but people arent really taking anti horde weapons. I have a sneaking suspicion that, as strong as hordes are now, there is a large portion of players who believe they shouldn’t have to take counters to basic infantry.
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#244
Irbis

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Problem I would see with the supposed strategems to upgrade a unit to something better is that they are just circumventing the real issue i.e. an actually balanced points system. I think strategems like this, while very flexible in terms of modelling and diversity, is just kicking the can further down the road with regards the proper implementation of a balanced points system.

 
Because you'd need to tear down and replace the point system on a scale at last as big as migrating to eight edition. Simple.
 
Last 3 editions had all the same problem - mathhammer crowd quickly deciding one unit in category X being better than others and the other units disappearing from the tables (and probably sales, too) as people started following the example of better players.
 
Let's say perfectly balanced ork boy is worth roughly 5.5 points, while hard boy is worth 7. What do you do - lower the boy to 5, effectively giving them 10% discount and ensuring hard boys are rarely picked, or make them 6, making the now 1 point upgrade look like absolute bargain sweeping boyz off tables?
 
The only real solution to the above is at least doubling all points, so you have more granularity, and you can price one unit 11 pts per boy and the other 14 - but that would instantly invalidate all books and half of the rules in game (basically, everything dependent on points and game size) so it can't really be done in 8th. That is one area where GW decision to leave things as they were in previous editions kinda bit them in the arse and makes fixing underlying problems pretty hard...
 

So... 'Ard Boyz have been dropped from a 4+ to a 5+ and then further gimped by making them a CP instead of an upgrade... that's dumb. Really dumb. Same with Skarboyz, why not just make them upgrades to the regular Boyz instead of more reliance on the stupid CP system?

 
What? Gimped? blink.png
 
That is colossal buff to all ork armies, not only letting them adjust army composition on the fly, tailoring to enemies, but it also lets them spend resource they had plenty of instead of one that is always scarce! facepalm.png SM players would love if they could upgrade tactical/assault squads to vanguard/sternguard without spending points, especially for such paltry sum (it's what, 1/30 of CP per boy?). In what world getting ton of flexibility over literally every other faction in the game is a 'gimp'? If they kept 4+ on top of it, it would be approaching 7th ed Eldar level of borken, as it is, we're basically still talking about IG trooper prices with Ogryn like melee capabilities down.gif






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