Big FAQ 2 = Armored Company/Mech Guard More Viable?

[zero88]

With the removal of all turn 1 reserves and the new Strategem to give you cover on turn 1 if you're going second, how much more viable are ACs? On paper, it's definitely appealing.. a 2+ save on all your tanks is absolutely huge, you're now getting a 5+ vs the most common long range anti tank weapons. Not saying it magically makes it a competitive build, but it seems like it will make it more fun to play with.

[USNCenturion]

Definitely helps for sure. I’d think you’d still need an infantry element for CQB protection and the 2 CPs needed to generate the cover bonus. You could mount them in APCs to maintain the armored company theme no problem though.

[Frater Cornelius]

Depends on what level you play. It definitely helps, but Knights and Dark Reapers are there to stay, same a  psi-spamming Daemons. Transports are waaaay too pricy. This leaves Hellhounds and Leman Russes as the main part of a mech army, which isn't much different from what we already see, to be fair. If the Chimera and regular Taurox would be a tad cheaper, then I'd say go for it. As it stands, those choices are just... inefficient. I hate that I need to use the word "efficiency" in a game that is meant to be fun, but if you want to go head to head with the top soups, you have no other choice.

In a more casual environment, I say go for it. 2+ for yours tanks when not starting is definitely awesome.

[-Nemesis-]

I still find value in Catachan double flamer chimeras transporting Kriegineers. But I am only playing locally in Texas, I'm not about to fly with resin Guard.

[domsto]

The Stratagem sounds good but it doesn't make such a big difference.

Most Anti Tank guns have ap -3 or more so you get from a 6+ save to a 5+ save.

So your tanks will be blown away as easy as before.

Andas said earlyer the key units for a mechaniced army (transports) are just overcosted and the Transporter rule is also really bad after all.

[Closet Skeleton]

Astra militarum transports aren't way too pricy, they're pretty fair; taurox are cheaper than rhinos and chimeras are similar in cost to the comparative twin heavy bolter razorback. The really good transports (wave serpents and assault cannon razorbacks) are more expensive. The problem is that they turn a guard army into a regular army so you lose your over-all edge over lower tier codexes.

 

Bullgryns are better off walking with a larger squad size, scions have their own transport and veterans aren't worth the cost. The real problem with mech guard is that most guard units just don't benefit from transports.

 

An army of Tallarn taurox vets would probably be able to win a lot of games but spamming artillery is a lot less bother.

[Frater Cornelius]

The Stratagem sounds good but it doesn't make such a big difference.

Most Anti Tank guns have ap -3 or more so you get from a 6+ save to a 5+ save.

So your tanks will be blown away as easy as before.

Andas said earlyer the key units for a mechaniced army (transports) are just overcosted and the Transporter rule is also really bad after all.

Really depends on the meta, actually. Generally, you are right. However, many high end rarely have better than -2AP at long range. Besides from a 6+ to a 5+, it is a decent jump by itself, while giving you freedom in positioning.

[noigrim]

Main problem of tanks is that if you get charged you are in trouble since you will do nothing but retreat and that wasn't fixed in the faq

[domsto]

Astra militarum transports aren't way too pricy, they're pretty fair; taurox are cheaper than rhinos and chimeras are similar in cost to the comparative twin heavy bolter razorback. The really good transports (wave serpents and assault cannon razorbacks) are more expensive. The problem is that they turn a guard army into a regular army so you lose your over-all edge over lower tier codexes.

 

Bullgryns are better off walking with a larger squad size, scions have their own transport and veterans aren't worth the cost. The real problem with mech guard is that most guard units just don't benefit from transports.

 

An army of Tallarn taurox vets would probably be able to win a lot of games but spamming artillery is a lot less bother.

Do i sens Salt?

[domsto]

 

The Stratagem sounds good but it doesn't make such a big difference.

Most Anti Tank guns have ap -3 or more so you get from a 6+ save to a 5+ save.

So your tanks will be blown away as easy as before.

Andas said earlyer the key units for a mechaniced army (transports) are just overcosted and the Transporter rule is also really bad after all.

Really depends on the meta, actually. Generally, you are right. However, many high end rarely have better than -2AP at long range. Besides from a 6+ to a 5+, it is a decent jump by itself, while giving you freedom in positioning.

 

I had a game where i used it and my Leman Russes got one shooted as alwasy.

And i had games where my Enemy used it and i killed his Vehicles easily

Also there are many Long range AP -3 Weapons

[Closet Skeleton]

Do i sens Salt?

 

 

?

 

No idea what you're on about.

 

I've played against mech guard once and got thrashed but I have no idea how good they are generally. Take all comers tournament armies can always run into problems when faced with extreme lists.

 

I've used mechanized marine armies and found transports to be quite good this edition, so I just assumed if mech guard was bad then its because expensive elite units benefit more from transports.

[MrZakalwe]

 

Do i sens Salt?

 

 

?

 

No idea what you're on about.

 

I've played against mech guard once and got thrashed but I have no idea how good they are generally. Take all comers tournament armies can always run into problems when faced with extreme lists.

 

I've used mechanized marine armies and found transports to be quite good this edition, so I just assumed if mech guard was bad then its because expensive elite units benefit more from transports.

 

Think he was just being a cock, best to ignore. 

 

I think the issues with Guard transports are fourfold 

 

1) Guard doesn't have anything you can transport that really needs to be up close. Rhino's are worth it with berserkers only because the berzerkers are very potent and have no other alternative to get close. the fact the Rhino is overcosted is outweighed by sheer need. For Guard the best way to get troops to a location safely is spent the extra points on more troops and accept some losses. 

 

2) 8th edition transport rules are quite poor (no vehicle movement before disembark etc).

 

3) Guard transports don't have enough firepower to work as tanks (with the exception of the Taurox/prime which don't have enough toughness to work as tanks). Razorbacks and Wave Serpents are efficient in the lists that use them even if nobody ever gets inside. 

 

4) guard transports have no firepoint equivalent - nobody really uses transports for ranged troops if they can't shoot out of them. 

[domsto]

 

Do i sens Salt?

 

 

?

 

No idea what you're on about.

 

I've played against mech guard once and got thrashed but I have no idea how good they are generally. Take all comers tournament armies can always run into problems when faced with extreme lists.

 

I've used mechanized marine armies and found transports to be quite good this edition, so I just assumed if mech guard was bad then its because expensive elite units benefit more from transports.

 

I am sorry

i miss interpreted your Comment.

I though you where whining about how Guard is OP or something like that.

[Shamansky]

Astra militarum transports aren't way too pricy, they're pretty fair; taurox are cheaper than rhinos and chimeras are similar in cost to the comparative twin heavy bolter razorback. The really good transports (wave serpents and assault cannon razorbacks) are more expensive. The problem is that they turn a guard army into a regular army so you lose your over-all edge over lower tier codexes.

 

sarcasm

Yeah! AM vehicles should be more expensive! The've got the same stats and... oh wait... what? BS 4+? Really. Only tempestus and tallarns? Hmm... This chages NOTHING! The Guard must be nerfed!

[-Nemesis-]

The Stratagem sounds good but it doesn't make such a big difference.

Most Anti Tank guns have ap -3 or more so you get from a 6+ save to a 5+ save.

So your tanks will be blown away as easy as before.

Andas said earlyer the key units for a mechaniced army (transports) are just overcosted and the Transporter rule is also really bad after all.

Not all, but even those who are -3 or even -4, that is still a nice buff to survivability.

 

So let's say it takes 3 successful lascannon wounds to drop a tank. Your opponent goes from needing a mean of 8.3 BS3+ shots to 10.4.

[Diagramdude]

Saving lascannons on 5s is huge. Doubles the amount of saves you'll make.

[-Nemesis-]

My biggest regret about the FAQ, and most earnest wish for the Chapter Approved, is for standard bearers to gain the character keyword. That would make command squads useful for more than just plasma caddies.

[Shamansky]

My biggest regret about the FAQ, and most earnest wish for the Chapter Approved, is for standard bearers to gain the character keyword. That would make command squads useful for more than just plasma caddies.

That would make our elite slot even more crowded.