Sisters vs. Knights

[Ficinus]

It is commonly known that the knight houses are incredibly susceptible to the lure of heresy and often need to be purged in the name of the most holy emperor. However, I find that my sisters often lack the necessary tools to face a full force of knights. One can fall easily to inferno pistols and meltaguns, but the full force of a heretical knight house seems to guarantee martyrdom without the glory of victory. So, I call out to all of you canonesses, palatines, and inquisitors to ask: how is it that your Orders deal with the threat of heretical knight houses (especially those that still pose as loyal)?

[Montford]

The last time I killed a Knight a multi-melta squad had taken it down quite a bit and my last 5 Repentia removed its last 4 wounds.

 

Mainly I would use meltas. If you use Retributor Multi Meltas as I did, I had an Imagifier with them, and had them move via Act of Faith so that their shooting phase would not be degraded. I also put in a wound or two with heavy bolters, but mostly those MMs. But the shooting phase when the MMs were at less than 12 inches was the big damage turn.

[Atrus]

Ive not gone up against imperial/traitor knights before so am interested to hear peoples strategies. I really wish exorcists were the answer.

 

Been up against wraithknights before and the answer from me there is usually inferno pistol seraphim squad or two and a finishing volley from 3 exorcists. If that doesnt work, point elswhere to distract the opponent and then flip the table...yeah ive still got 7e wraithknight ptsd.

[Margulix]

Repressors with melta-dominions kills everything. take 3 of those and knights won't be problem. also seraphims with infernos as occasional support.

[Ficinus]

Yeah, melta works okay when trying to take down a knight. I've had multiple four inferno pistol Seraphim squads backed up by a Canoness with the Blade of Admonition take out Tyranid gargantuan monstrous creatures, daemon primarchs, and even knights, but only ever one at a time. They usually die super quickly after they do their job. I guess this is where the knight army is the problem more than a single knight. I can get lucky and nuke one knight with 20 meltas (that is above average performance), but five seems beyond me.

 

Is the key just hiding all game to hold objectives? That seems boring.

[Margulix]

Yeah, melta works okay when trying to take down a knight. I've had multiple four inferno pistol Seraphim squads backed up by a Canoness with the Blade of Admonition take out Tyranid gargantuan monstrous creatures, daemon primarchs, and even knights, but only ever one at a time. They usually die super quickly after they do their job. I guess this is where the knight army is the problem more than a single knight. I can get lucky and nuke one knight with 20 meltas (that is above average performance), but five seems beyond me.

 

Is the key just hiding all game to hold objectives? That seems boring.

 

That is where repressor shines greatly. You can move those first turn as scout move, than move+advance and fire 5 meltas. Usually opponent does not thinking that you can come to his deploy first turn, and usually no one place screen further than 12 inches from their vehicles, knights and etc. 

 

I back up repressors with immolation flamers to kill that screen or infantry support, and it goes really good. 

 

So dominions in repressors durable. also 5++ (with celestine) helps for it to survive longer.

[Slasher956]

Do repressors have AoF rule?  I didnt think any vehicle did (rhinos & Immolators have SoF only).... and as the Dominons inside a vehicle they arent on the board and socant be affected by/ use an AoF either....

[Margulix]

Yep? they cannot AoF, but usually 10 melta shots are enough to kill 1-2 vehicles a turn.

[Aqui]

Do repressors have AoF rule?  I didnt think any vehicle did (rhinos & Immolators have SoF only).... and as the Dominons inside a vehicle they arent on the board and socant be affected by/ use an AoF either....

It has Shield of Faith only.

[Beams]

The Repressor gets a scout move if Dominions are in it, though. So it can move and advance before the first round, and the move again, so 24+d6" move first turn makes it impressively fast. Though only a Max of 3 can do this.

[Mekhitar]

Move block the gallants, and nuke the knights with melta one at a time. Don’t forget that after your seraphim shoot, they can assault a nearby unit of guardsmen, pin one, and be safe from counter shooting.

 

With sisters we have great obsec units, so don’t forget to always play the mission. In ITC Vs multiple knights you can get hold more and usually the bonus, too, against a multiple knight list.

[Slasher956]

Yep? they cannot AoF, but usually 10 melta shots are enough to kill 1-2 vehicles a turn.

10 melta shots... so 2 repressors with a unit each in as they only get the one shot.... (as they unit cant AoF as not on the board) ... and  you've used at least 494 points to do it....  and will you be alive to do it a 2nd turn?  Did you surrive the 1st turn to do it?

 

Basically as a tactic its not something that will work more than 50% of the time to kill a knight... 

[Margulix]

 

Yep? they cannot AoF, but usually 10 melta shots are enough to kill 1-2 vehicles a turn.

10 melta shots... so 2 repressors with a unit each in as they only get the one shot.... (as they unit cant AoF as not on the board) ... and  you've used at least 494 points to do it....  and will you be alive to do it a 2nd turn?  Did you surrive the 1st turn to do it?

 

Basically as a tactic its not something that will work more than 50% of the time to kill a knight... 

 

 

Ofc it depends on terrain and your saves if your turn 2nd. But if you can hide repressors with losblock which is somewhere in the center of the feild...

 

But if you go first i bet you can kill 1 or 2 knights. I killed 3 riptides on 1st turn once with 2 melta repressors, 1 melta seraphims and some help of ally tau. (drones were gunned with immolation flamers).

 

Well they are rad. just try a few games with them and you'll see, they are really powerful unit (at least until gw makes plastic sisters and potentially nerfing or removing repressor).

[bkde]

The issue against multiple knights is that we do most of our damage in the shooting phase and need to focus fire. Agreed, Dominions and Seraphim are our best options. But assuming best case scenario and you do get all those melta's within range, clear away screens, etc:

 

2x 5 meltas from doms (you went all out and got the combimelta) + 4 inf pistols from the seraphim you double AoF moved = 14 shots

 

Hitting on 3's (because there's no way to get a cannoness within range and the doms in Reps can't be buffed while in the transport anyways).

 

9.33 hits, wounding with half: 5 wounds?

 

Rotate Ion Shields (and lets do best case, assume it's only a 5+ to a 4+ and not a 4+ to a 3+ due to Ion Bulwark trait), means 2.5 wounds go through. Best case you're doing maybe 12 damage if you're lucky or in melta range.

 

So one crippled knight. If Mechanicus he can pop the strat to count it as full health for the turn then proceed to murder your Doms/Seraphim that are within 12-6" with the rest of his army and eliminate the most threatening models to his knight force.

 

Feel free to play with the math, add another 5 melta shots from another dom squad, etc. but I think the result will be the same. One crippled knight, maybe a dead one if you roll hot.

 

One knight is definitely do-able, but multiple are a real struggle for the girls. Agreed with the poster who recommended playing for objectives if an ITC game.

[Slasher956]

I admit I'm struggling to deal with big nid monsters*.... but luckily the club seems to have an un-spoken agreement not to play knights at the moment, and true flyers are rare as well....

 

If that chances, depending on the beta dex I might have to go and 'borrow' a knight from a near by house thats pious enough!!!**

 

 

 

*but I'm tweeking my list to something that works more often than not... 

** read as create a new Imperial house that has long standing connections to the Ministorum!

[Ficinus]

Yeah, I figured the response would be play to the mission and for points, I just also like purging things and wanted to see if folks had any good ideas. Melta is just too unreliable, especially against T8 and invulnerable saves. I wish I could outflank a knight...

 

And Slasher, what sort of Tryanid monsters? Against everything but Hive Tyrants, I've found melta to be pretty darn effective, even against the T8 stuff, since it usually lacks an invuln. Hive Tyrants also go down to melta, but it's tougher. Close Combat Canonesses are also decent at knocking off a few wounds off of monsters and can be tanky fighting a bracketed monster with some luck.

[Slasher956]

Mainly lack of game time so bad list compistion, positioning and target priority....compounded by switching lists nearly every game (and switching between sisters and craftworlders).... So getting better

[Mekhitar]

I’ve seen a penitent engine knock 15 wds off a gallant in one fight phase, or an eviscerator canoness take down the last 5 after surviving a crusader’s first set of swings. But the sisters have a small toolbox (for the moment).

[Ficinus]

Yeah, I forgot about Penitent Engines, probably because I don't have any. If they can get in, they could definitely snack around a knight. I hope they get plastic models.

[Sume]

Yeah, I forgot about Penitent Engines, probably because I don't have any. If they can get in, they could definitely snack around a knight. I hope they get plastic models.

 

I agree that model needs a plastic kit.  Having put three together with pinning, and jb weld.  To just get the harder joints to stay.  They are probably the most aggravating models I have ever built.  At least the only ones that recently come to mind.  

 

Do wish our tool kit was bigger.  As my area is getting more and more Knights, plus guard spam.  Havent had a chance to play with the new FAQ but I doubt it will help enough in the fact that the guard spam is going to still be feeding it enough command points to take care of turn 1 and 2.  Where the game will most likely be decided.  

[ERJAK]

Yeah, melta works okay when trying to take down a knight. I've had multiple four inferno pistol Seraphim squads backed up by a Canoness with the Blade of Admonition take out Tyranid gargantuan monstrous creatures, daemon primarchs, and even knights, but only ever one at a time. They usually die super quickly after they do their job. I guess this is where the knight army is the problem more than a single knight. I can get lucky and nuke one knight with 20 meltas (that is above average performance), but five seems beyond me.

 

Is the key just hiding all game to hold objectives? That seems boring.

Like a full knight list? Or the loyal 32+big knight+other stuff thing? Because an all knight list isn't honestly that big of a deal for SoB to handle (though it used to be far easier before the 'nerf of 3' came in.) If you get first turn they should be down at least one knight and at that point they don't have enough firepower to stop you from taking another one down to at least its second damage tier. After that as long as you don't leave yourself in a position to get multi-charged, you should win the battle of attrition. Going second is a bit rougher but hopefull with some terrain protection and the cover strategem you should weather the assault alright.