sneakybamsen Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 I'll be attending the danish ETC qualifiers with a pure knight list on the 10th/11th November. This is not to say I'll be a major player or win anything, merely a thread where I can share my experiences with you guys, if you care to read them. Due to the secrecy of such a tournament up untill list revelation I cannot post my list here, but at least it's something I've come up with myself, and it uses one of my favourite mechanisms in the game - pressure and hard choices. Something my beloved Dark Angels don't do well currently. List population should happen before 28th of october, so by then I'll post my list here. Expect a Vyronii-esque scheme of paint on my models. Spoiler - I am borrowing a knight from a friend and team member, so one model will not be my paintscheme on the pictures I will hopefully be able to share. Regards Sneaky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clingy Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 Looking forward to your report and all the best of luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakybamsen Posted October 29, 2018 Author Share Posted October 29, 2018 Thanks, Clingy. I promised I'd post my list for the tourney after they have been revealed. As ETC is a team tournament, and a faction can only be represented once per 5-man team, it was a bit of fiddling to figure out who should play Imperial Knights, and if it should be with allies or stand-alone. We agreed that since the knights have a strong codex, and we can only field them once in our team, it should be a pure list. To begin with I ran two testgames with Simon Darres ETC list from this years event in Croatia, but I figured it was not quite my style, so I came up with the below and have had some games with it since. It might be a little unusual in that it is not rocking a Castellan, so if that defines your competitive knight list, I'm sorry to disappoint. That said I like the options this list has, and the fact that I haven't seen anyone run a similar list. == Super-Heavy Detachment == Imperial Knights, <Raven> == 71 PLs [1279 pts] 6 CP LoW1: Knight Crusader (285), Avenger Gatling Cannon with Heavy Flamer (92), Thermal Cannon (76), Heavy Stubber (4), WARLORD: Ion Bulwark, Endless Fury, <Raven> - [25pls] [457pts]LoW2: Knight Warden (285), Avenger Gatling Cannon with Heavy Flamer (92), Reaper Chainsword (30), Heavy Stubber (4), Exalted Court: Landstrider, <Raven> - [23pls] [411pts]LoW3: Knight Warden (285), Avenger Gatling Cannon with Heavy Flamer (92), Reaper Chainsword (30), Heavy Stubber (4), <Raven> - [23pls] [411pts] == Super-Heavy Detachment == Imperial Knights, <Krast> == 38 PLs [721 pts] 3 CP LoW4: Knight Gallant (285), Thunderstrike Guntlet (35), Reaper Chainsword (30), Meltagun (17), Heirlooms of the noble Houses: The Paragon Gauntlet, <Krast> - [20pls] [367pts]LoW5: Armiger Warglaive (160), Thermal Spear (0), Reaper Chain-cleaver (0), Meltagun (17), <Krast> - [9pls] [177pts]LoW6: Armiger Warglaive (160), Thermal Spear (0), Reaper Chain-cleaver (0), Meltagun (17), <Krast> - [9pls] [177pts]2000 pts Relics and warlord traits are changeable before every game, but ones listed will be the default options, and will be used if I do not change to something else. This list had a testgame against AM with shadowsword, and should have won a minor victory. His bullgryns overperformed and I made a mistake in turn 5 of not drawing objectives untill after I had moved, which was a difference of 4+ VP. Also tested against vehicle heavy craftworld (alaitoc) with 3 prisms, 3 planes with lances and stuff and a lot of wave serpents with shields. Won that one. Against Abbaddon, 120 AL cultists, 3 daemon princes, ahriman and 25 zerkers I tabled my opponent. Played against IK with an ad-mech battalion and since he won first turn and had a favorable deployment map, I was tabled in 1,5 hours. The way of knights vs knights. Had deployment gone my way, and had I started, I think it would have been the other way around. We are in the process of clarifying how we see the other team's lists compared to our own. There is a bit of work in preparing for such a tournament besides just painting, I've come to realize. I hope this was not too long or too boring, and I hope you will find it interesting to read about when it's all done in two weeks time. Regards Sneaky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clingy Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Cheers for the update sneaks, will keep watching this thread with interest. The list looks flexible and fun to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 I really like your list here Sneaky. The mix of the Avengers and Thermal weapons on the platforms you're using is really inspired! I can't wait to hear how you get on. The ETC is an amazing format and really showcases some serious talent in the hobby - will be cheering you on from here buddy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanista Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Love it. And I've said it a few times, but the difference between regular 2k lists and the new WHW GT standard 1750 points is remarkable. 2k does change it massively, whereas 1750 does almost force you to take the guard battalion. Good luck with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakybamsen Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 I built it the way I did as I feel that Krast and Raven are probably the strongest two houses, so I decided to maximize the effect of those two stacked with Landstrider. Being able to advance and shoot everything is just so powerful in terms of denying your opponent table control and stressing him. A gallant charging turn 1 will catch some people off guard. In fact the threat of it alone make opponents shoot at it first and foremost, which leaves the shootier knights smashing stuff. Also, being able to handle hordes to a degree (proper hordes of 200+ boyz or cultists with Abbadon aren't really manageable for knights) I feel is a take many opponents won't expect. Then, stacking the melta it can within the points, does give it back some punch against knight lists and the like. Granted it does not shoot at the same level as a castellan + crusader list, but it can, with decent dice, take out a shadowsword in shooting in 1 turn for instance. It plays the way I feel knights should. It's built for disengaging, shooting, charging and fighting every turn. At least that way you maximize output of the models you have, and let's be honest, who doesn't like 12-15 riverdancing attacks, apart from opponents? The last thing it has going for it, is the 96 T8 wounds with invul against shooting. 120 wounds counting the two armigers. My eldar opponent said it's too tough for his list (first test game). If I wanted to capitalize on that, another house would have been worth considering (hawkshroud springs to mind, or taranis), but I feel this is more to my liking. Thanks for the support, guys. It's really appreciated. Also, Hermanista, you're definitely right about the difference between 1750 and 2k. For knights it is massive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakybamsen Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 A thing I am not sure about, however, is if Order of Companions is worth it on the crusader. I mean, it's 3 CP now, and with no carapace weapons and thermal cannon instead of RFBC, it seems a tad CP-heavy for not being nearly as great as on a Castellan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 It's a seriously clever list imho Sneaky. That decentralisation of firepower you've built in is such a well thought out move, and has really made me think again about some of my own list concepts. You have great anti-horde, great anti tank, but none of it is obviously tied up in a single model - which is such a temptation for Knight players normally, especially with regard to models like the Castellan. It's going to present a real issue for an opponent in terms of deciding what to target, while you are left fairly free to exert pressure on them. I can't tell you how much I admire the list design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakybamsen Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 Stray, those words are too kind. I'm *almost* blushing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clingy Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Bring it all in for a cuddle gents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanista Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Tbh, and sneaky will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the raven part is less about the raven strat, more about the move and fire everything. I think three uses of the least strat is more useful than the raven one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Tbh, and sneaky will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the raven part is less about the raven strat, more about the move and fire everything. I think three uses of the least strat is more useful than the raven one. I concur. Sneaky, are you able to tailor the house choice between games at all, or does it have to be decided on before the event? I just imagine in some match ups the Armigers would benefit from the Raven Tradition if you're tending to get more use out of their Thermal Spears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanista Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Tbh, and sneaky will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the raven part is less about the raven strat, more about the move and fire everything. I think three uses of the least strat is more useful than the raven one. I concur. Sneaky, are you able to tailor the house choice between games at all, or does it have to be decided on before the event? I just imagine in some match ups the Armigers would benefit from the Raven Tradition if you're tending to get more use out of their Thermal Spears. The spear is assault not heavy, so wouldn't need it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Right, but don't you still fire with a penalty if you advanced? I might be wrong without checking, but I thought the Raven Trait additionally removes that for weapons already classed as assault? Just thinking of the potential increases in shots landing for those games where you're leaning more heavily on the spears. Edit. Then again, they aren't lacking on range without advancing anyway are they? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanista Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Aye, it's part one of their trait, advance and fire assault weapons without penalty. Part two is heavy weapons count as assault. So they can move/advance/shoot without any hinderance without worrying about the strat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakybamsen Posted October 31, 2018 Author Share Posted October 31, 2018 Tbh, and sneaky will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the raven part is less about the raven strat, more about the move and fire everything. I think three uses of the least strat is more useful than the raven one. Yes, the raven part is all about allowing those wardens and the crusader more mobility, and being able to make the most of landstrider at the same time. A bonus to the way it's built, is that the landstrider warden provides a crucial bonus to the others, without it having been targeted in the test games. Least strat? I am wondering which one you are referring to. But yes, Order of Companions seem a tad expensive to be using on the Crusader in this list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakybamsen Posted October 31, 2018 Author Share Posted October 31, 2018 Sneaky, are you able to tailor the house choice between games at all, or does it have to be decided on before the event? I just imagine in some match ups the Armigers would benefit from the Raven Tradition if you're tending to get more use out of their Thermal Spears. Households are not changeable between games, only warlord traits, psychic powers and relics. I can understand where you are coming from, but the way this works requires close combat prowess, and Krast provides that. A gallant as Raven just to not have -1 to hit with the meltagun is a waste imho. it serves much better getting that full tilt turn one after going forward fast and then hitting the enemy like a wrecking ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanista Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Tbh, and sneaky will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the raven part is less about the raven strat, more about the move and fire everything. I think three uses of the least strat is more useful than the raven one. Yes, the raven part is all about allowing those wardens and the crusader more mobility, and being able to make the most of landstrider at the same time. A bonus to the way it's built, is that the landstrider warden provides a crucial bonus to the others, without it having been targeted in the test games. Least strat? I am wondering which one you are referring to. But yes, Order of Companions seem a tad expensive to be using on the Crusader in this list. Least - Krast Damn you autocorrect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanista Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Controlled Agression on just knight feet for example are gonna help a fair bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakybamsen Posted October 31, 2018 Author Share Posted October 31, 2018 Controlled Agression on just knight feet for example are gonna help a fair bit. That's true. I must admit I haven't used it, but should keep it in mind when attending the qualifiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanista Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Controlled Agression on just knight feet for example are gonna help a fair bit. That's true. I must admit I haven't used it, but should keep it in mind when attending the qualifiers.I'm not a maths man, but using it against chaos cultists etc to clear stuff out could be huge. Or even smacking d. Princes around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakybamsen Posted October 31, 2018 Author Share Posted October 31, 2018 What has served well, and should keep doing so, is Machine Spirit Resurgent. When they have that first turn, and pour everything into the gallant without killing it, it's a gleeful moment when you make it move 12", shoot the gun and charge for absolute carnage. I have used it up to 3 or 4 times during a game (on different knights) - at 1 CP it is brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 What has served well, and should keep doing so, is Machine Spirit Resurgent. If nothing else, the psychological affect can be a huge tool in early game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakybamsen Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 What has served well, and should keep doing so, is Machine Spirit Resurgent. If nothing else, the psychological affect can be a huge tool in early game. It can indeed. What people sometimes forget about knights in my humble experience, is that a bracketed knight is dangerous, but not nearly as dangerous as an unbracketed one. They tend to kill one, then start shooting at the next. Taking two or three to their bottom bracket is also a powerful option for our opponents, albeit it perhaps takes more firepower. But don't tell them that ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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