Codex Arms Race continues

[BlackTriton]

Dont forget the epic comeback of the AM + castelan list.

"Big robot that do all the heavy lifting" was removed turn 1 and the Guard still won that game.

Do not downplay how good guard can be, they can hold their own. even if big robots do help.

 

Are guard OverTuned? Maybe. They certainly are over represented.

Im in favor of nerfing (lightly) over represented models in combisaison with a light buff to under represented models to bring more diversity (and thus balance) to the game. But im not in favor of faction nerfing

[NatBrannigan]

Seems that the issue is the CP batteries. 30 Infantry and 3 Knights is not an Imperial Guard list.

 

Solo Guard are still good of course, very good compared to older editions, but I do think people get carried away a bit.

 

I'd be less bothered if the unit proposed to be nerfed (again) wasn't Guards main building block. Guard Infantry are what Tactical Marines should be, and if Tactical Marines were any good at all people would be delighted to see them heavily represented in lists.  By all means make those Forgeworld Hellhounds that are better and cheaper than codex Hellhounds worse though.

 

Anyway, seems to be less a codex power creep and more a codex roulette. Maybe you get a Guard codex, maybe you get a Grey Knights codex.

[ashc]

Power armour armies are certainly taking a pummelling this edition - the core rules themselves showed early on that the general advantages of 3+ or better saves on infantry weren't as good as previous editions and I think that the trend continues. Some of the later books have done ok - Blood Angels have some strong builds and Space Wolves are considered well-balanced, however earlier books look pretty terrible already.

 

Codex marines runs with weak strategems and need propping up with other armies in many cases.

Chaos runs better as a soup of super friends than what most can build as a mono legion force these days, and many of their best units aren't really 'chaos space marines'.

Grey Knights are... well, the less said the better no doubt.

 

I'm not entirely convinced on creep, however I do agree that there are some issues with earlier power armoured forces being weaker than the later ones.

[Closet Skeleton]

Are they though? Is there any tournament result style evidence to support that, because I just don't see it myself.

 

I also think you need to dig deeper. If Guard are blowing everyone away, is it all Guard armies or just Cadian for example? That's a strong regimental rule for sure, however I play with the Mordian rules and really don't feel overpowered when I play. Rather than making everyone who plays guard suffer I'd like to see cries for more specific nerfs if required, or just fix Marines instead.

 

Guard don't blow everything away, they only blow certain armies away while getting countered by Eldar.

 

I just won a 3 game 1000 point tournament last friday with my pure infantry Valhallans and I didn't actually kill that much. (I fought thousand sons, death guard and blood angels so my win was mainly down to favorable match ups compared to the Tau player who came second, there were no eldar players). I just dominated on objectives.

 

I then took my 1000 points of guard to a 1750 event with allied Blood Angels and did terribly.

[kombatwombat]

I’m not sure even the later Marine Codexes are that good. They seem to have the same curse that Chaos Space Marines have (and, annoyingly, still had back in 7th Ed): they’re Codex:Characters+Chaff. The only units of any great use are the superhero characters and Scouts/Cultists/specialist not-Marine units such as Obliterators and Wulfen. No matter how many tournament placings Marine books get, people won’t think they’re strong (or fun, for that matter) until the various flavours of Tacticals/CSMs, Assault Marines/Raptors, Devastators/Havocs and Terminators are strong choices.

[Laughingman]

I suspect at some point Space marines will get a Fury of the Legion Mechanic/Stratagem (that they likely should have had in the first place) which could help with the horde problem to some degree...