How does AdMech fare when PL is used?

[crazy_tuco]

A guy in our group is angling hard for using Power Level instead of points and I'm curious how pure AdMech (no knights) fares in that environment.  

[synthaside]

Ad mech especially our troops have a lot of expensive upgrades .... if you have the models to support EVERY single upgrade they actually do very well in power level. I'll give you and A example  A 5 man ranger team with no upgrades costs the same power as  5Rangerss  2 with Sniper rifles,, the leader with arc pistol and power maul,, and a ranger equipped with the ignore cover item.

Points differnce   barebones  35 points   - full unit  100 points 
Power level    4

Same holds true to things like out  Onager its power level is 7  ....  ... maxed out with a neutron laser  its 145 points 
Compare this to Leman Russ  Annihilator  which is 10 power  

 

The problem is when you play power you are supposed to play Wysiyg thats the point.

[DanPesci]

As synthaside has hinted at...any of our units that have several upgrade options come out very well.

 

Vanguard no longer paying for plasma calivers, ignores cover, weapons on the leader.

Rangers similarly no longer paying for arquebus (this is huge, you can literally take twice as many squads with dual areqebus for your points), ignores cover, weapons on the leader.

 

This could (not saying it would, wouuld need testing) make metallica doctrine a bit more viable. Take tons more vanguard squads due to the points savings, and then have them all move + run + shoot?? Not bad.

 

Other things include onagers (same PL for fully kitted out).

 

Free phosphor blaster upgrades on kastellans....not a huge saving, but a 'fun' extra troll from our most trolly unit :)

 

 

Free torsion cannon upgrades on breachers....sill not amazing at 1 shot each, but again, slight savings make the upgrade a nicer idea that it is when having to pay extra.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The problem is when you play power you are supposed to play Wysiyg thats the point.

 

Maybe its something im missing, but I don't really get why PL is more adherent to wysiwyg than say matched play would be?

 

If anything id image most players beng more open to you proxying in a PL game than a points based one where upgrades/whats on the model actually has a cost.

[Xisor]

I think PL being more about WYSIWYG is to do with lowered complexity. Whilst it's amenable to proxying, because you're not tracking point, you're offsetting that with extra effort tracking what's not-what-it-appears.

 

Which can be a hassle.

 

For PL, I find the attraction is playing what you roughly like the look of within your collection and assuming that there's a rough balance, but that exact balance isn't going to be had, so stop trying to look for it.

 

Not that you can't analyse on that deeper level, but that the intention for PL is to reduce the meta game, by not even really encouraging you to look at the particular points costs.

 

Rather: do you want a transuranic arquebus or a plasma calliver?

 

In that respect, the hope is that it's free and easy.

 

The question is: are the PL's 'correct ball-park'?

 

----

 

If this very-enthusiastic person's for playing PL rather than points, that tells me one of two things:

1- They're really not into points at all, and can't be assed with the fine-detail tracking and meta-analysing. And would rather cut that portion of the game out entirely.

2- They're actually super-into points, and have spotted that if you just give units absolutely everything, you can field much more in a 110PL game than you could in a 2000pts game.

 

One of those sounds fun to play against (and the subjective quality of the army is mostly irrelevant), the other sounds like a shifty nightmare (where you're playing points-costs, but with an extra layer of complexity).

 

----

 

In that light, I can see why people don't get wanting to play PL.

[synthaside]

Spot on Xisor ,  I didn't want to say anything but i was alluding that the person who is very insistent on power  is probably in the latter camp 

 They're super-into points, and have spotted that if you just give units absolutely everything, you can field much more in a 110PL game than you could in a 2000pts game.
 

I would worry that you may come up against some utter filth … with power level played to max ….it could easily be a case that you have come across  “ that guy/gurl”  who intends to win at all costs ,  Powerlevel is designed for pick up games where an army of random stuff  models built with the rule of cool in mind  plays  army that’s the same  and they used power level to ensure an even ish match and fight a fun causual game. 

Its easily abused by a seasoned player who builds their army with this in mind .. and as a result, should really be playing  “points”.  The nature of not paying for any upgradse, when playing power level its supposed to be to make the game easy and roughly balanced  …. Each unit has what it has … in the boxes you bought/built,  not every unit with the MOST POWERFULL Options.

Its an even bigger Red flag If the player also wants to proxy … suddenly every dev squad has Lascannons when really they are holding a mix of stuff  , it’s a big indicator that the player has put WAY too much thought and broken the power level system concept.

Go carefully.

[Xisor]

Or surprise them by suggesting you play using each other's army!

 

If they're the former category, they might quite enjoy fighting *against* the fluffy/mixed/cobbled army they've had in mind. (I know I would!)

 

If they're still of the latter, then you might see many red flags.

 

(Situation doesn't hold up if it's a person that's really keen on their fluffy list, but also really wanting to try it themself, or not big on letting other people handle their models. Takes all sorts to make a world, after all!)

[elbianc]

Does he play daemons?

[brother_b]

We play PL all the time. It easy.

 

As far as how does admech do with PL?

 

The same as they do with points. Tough decisions re movement and static, limited forgeworld choices (some say more now that Stygies can't Infil as well), still expensive and limited HQ slots.

[sneakybamsen]

 

As far as how does admech do with PL?

 

The same as they do with points.

 

Exactly. Going over to power levels don't change much, except you don't pay for wargear (an average of expected choices is already included in the price). The rules are still the same. If wargear defines how you play, it might make a difference, otherwise it won't really.

[DanPesci]

The way I see PL admech is this:

 

- Is it going to give vanguard/ranger heavy army more advantage than they did using points? Yes. You literally fit twice as many models/wargear into your list as you did at equivalent points. That is an advantage no matter what.

 

- Are you going to come up against other armies who can utilise similar loopholes to negate this? Quite possibly, but maybe not, depends on the army/collection your opponent has.

 

- Is it going to make us a top tier tournament winning army just by abusing this?? No.

 

- Can it open up new ways of playing the army? Potentially.

E.g. I would never take metallica as my forgeworld in a competitive game. But at PL where i can suddenly max out tons of vanguard and have cheap but kitted out troops with assualt plasma everywhere?? Sure ill try it out now, itll be fun.

 

 

 

 

 

Its easily abused by a seasoned player who builds their army with this in mind .. and as a result, should really be playing  “points”.  The nature of not paying for any upgradse, when playing power level its supposed to be to make the game easy and roughly balanced  …. Each unit has what it has … in the boxes you bought/built,  not every unit with the MOST POWERFULL Options.

Its an even bigger Red flag If the player also wants to proxy … suddenly every dev squad has Lascannons when really they are holding a mix of stuff  , it’s a big indicator that the player has put WAY too much thought and broken the power level system concept.

Go carefully.

 

 

Ahhhhh i see, sorry,  i get what you were saying about WYSIWYG now:

ie its potentially more important in PL as it stops people simply taking the strongest options, which points would usually restrict (as they cant take if not modelled).

Point taken ;)

 

 

On PL vs Points?initial question...

 

 

I only ever use PL in narrative missions, which we usually play as a wind down after a matched play using points.

 

Id never consider a game 'competive' if using PL, but it can be a decent, quick way to throw models down on a table (especially in narrative settings where one side usually already has a major advantage over the other to begin with)