Midnightmare Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Whut? Well, I don’t know what to say to that other than “Thanks GW” :D I was expecting around up to 300. Very good value, I guess they really want to sell him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Abaddon has received no points increase, despite the buffs. I think he's about right now. I thought before that Calgar was just a little bit better value, but this feels about right. This is silly to say, but I will miss being able to 'hide' Abaddon. Yes it sounds gamey but my meta is full of anti character stuff and the new Assassins rules are proving to be extremely popular with a 'wildcard' assassin in play. In a lot of Chaos armies we're very HQ/character heavy. In my case it's even worse between CSM and Thousand Sons I have a bad habit of playing too many Sorcs! Also Abe's footprint is pretty large now. A lot of traditional terrain is going to make cover a bit tougher. Just such an amazing model now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Points may just be wrong accross the board. Havocs also saw improvements without points increase, and apparently they have the old points for oblits, not the new points from shadowspear. I thought abby's wpund total was still eithin the hide threshhold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El_Dicko Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Red Corsairs get a 3 CP strategem that is Tide of Traitors, but for CSM squads and has no limits on usage. Their warlord trait is a free relic (cuz we be pirates! yaaaar m8y) and +1 attack when they kill an enemy character. The strong are strongest alone indeed. Chaos Lords and chosen can now take thunder hammers (blackstone evilhammer is now redundant except for the awesome model) :devil: So it sounds like my converted store opening Primaris captain counts-as-Obsidius just became my new Red Corsairs Lord. Aaaaaaar indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Points may just be wrong accross the board. Havocs also saw improvements without points increase, and apparently they have the old points for oblits, not the new points from shadowspear. I thought abby's wpund total was still eithin the hide threshhold? I don't think points are wrong across the board, just possibly the ones in the codex, as the Shadow spear ones seem consistent with codex, but yea, the new Havocs are the same, but GW is doing a clever, buff/nerf design system now... Oblits are better, but worse, Havocs are better for sure, but can't be over 5 models. That's very flavourful but difficult to sustain over a game. Adjustments can always come in the obligatory faq after the codex release of course. So as far as 'hiding'.... I'm talking about all the newer elements I mentioned in the game. For people that don't play (or often): I'm talking about Arquebus reductions, Sniper mechanisms across multiple armies, the new GSC snipers and sniper relic is just brutal (against psykers), and sniper Scouts are very common now. Not to mention the indirect stuff we can't hide from.... Oath Breaker Missile systems are nasty, new Eliminator marines are actually really decent. Psychic powers... need LoS, but can go right after characters. So I'm just talking about physically hiding. People got up in arms about the Discordant being too high a wound count... personally I don't care, I am always prepared for high output of anti-character stuff. What discourages me about the Disco Lord is the T6.... I really wanted T7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furnace Lord Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Is there any more info about Black Legion stuff in the book? All I've heard were rumors about a couple of warlord traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahzek451 Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Havocs have received a very welcome boost. But as already pointed out, being limited to 5 this results in easily being picked off. The obvious first method is to put them out of sight since they care little about movement. But suspect to weapons that need no sight. Having said this, does anyone else have the temptation to stuff them in a dreadclaw like I do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Talarian Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 @Furnace, they got a few additional stratagems. From what I remember: Add 1 to attack if you outnumber opponent in melee (merciless killers, sounds awesome. I like the idea of 20 marines using this, or 10 chosen) 1CP 3CP - deny an objective from your opponent if you have someone within 3” of it Abaddons council? Can give a warlord trait to another character? Horus’ legacy You can make a different legion immune to moral? Or re-roll or something rather Standard relic stratagem Stratagem we saw in warcom (re-roll all hits on first shooting phase, need to target closest unit) So nothing game breaking by any means... but fun and fluffy :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furnace Lord Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 @Furnace, they got a few additional stratagems. From what I remember: Add 1 to attack if you outnumber opponent in melee (merciless killers, sounds awesome. I like the idea of 20 marines using this, or 10 chosen) 1CP 3CP - deny an objective from your opponent if you have someone within 3” of it Abaddons council? Can give a warlord trait to another character? Horus’ legacy You can make a different legion immune to moral? Or re-roll or something rather Standard relic stratagem Stratagem we saw in warcom (re-roll all hits on first shooting phase, need to target closest unit) So nothing game breaking by any means... but fun and fluffy Thank you:) So no change to the Legion trait or anything? That rumor mill was spinning :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Sadly the legion trait is unchanged, and I think remains a garbage trait. However, I think that's offset by the nice range of stratagems, relics and warlord traits BL gets. Based on seeing the pages, I think they got 6 new stratagems, 6 warlord traits (one being the old one), and 3-4 new relics, plus the bringers of despair formation. Plus Abby got a major stats boost, and I've heard his pts cost is unchanged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Talarian Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Indeed! Remembered another one... an unmarked unit can get all 4 marks if chaos for 1CP. Someone mentioned this being pretty cool with posssessd. I have yet to find the nuances but could alos maybe be cool on termies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Havocs have received a very welcome boost. But as already pointed out, being limited to 5 this results in easily being picked off. The obvious first method is to put them out of sight since they care little about movement. But suspect to weapons that need no sight. Having said this, does anyone else have the temptation to stuff them in a dreadclaw like I do?10 havocs unloading from a claw could be pretty impressive. That said, a rhino might perform a similar function at less cost and without having to wait for turn 2, no? 2x5 squads in rhinos arent the most uncommon setup already. Maybe 5 zerks for charging, 5 rotor havocs to clear chaff out of their way? Or 5 csms for boots on the ground, 5 lashavocs to strip wounds off a knight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 The money shot warlord traits for Engine lists will be the "half incoming damage" on the Lord Discordant. Apply that and have a MOP hanging out near him, heal him each turn and your opponent may be wasting armies of shooting trying to nail him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furnace Lord Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 I did just read on a facebook group (make of that what you will) that Black Legion also gets a stratagem that gives a Warlord trait to a sorcerer and dark apostle if your leader is a lord/prince/Abaddon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Yup, similar to alliance of agony for Dark Eldar. Really nice stratagem that will let you make use of the new black legion warlord traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Yup, butn a cp, get teo extra traits. Burn another for an extra relic, or three co instead for +2 relics. But between loading up on extra relics, traits, specialist detachments, and field commanders, you have to be careful to leave some actual vp left over to use during the game itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furnace Lord Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Yup, butn a cp, get teo extra traits. Burn another for an extra relic, or three co instead for +2 relics. But between loading up on extra relics, traits, specialist detachments, and field commanders, you have to be careful to leave some actual vp left over to use during the game itself. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Although I'm still probably going to try to make a Lord Discordant my Warlord and give him the half damage trait. If I can't make it work....then I can think of some other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Are Havocs on 40mm bases now?? Sure looks like it in the latest article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Yeah they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayniac Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Good thing I didn't base my autocannon guys then as I plan to put those towards Havocs. Increasing the base size for no reason so you can't use the old models without rebasing. Well played, GW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Ruminahui Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 That's not actually how it works - all models can be fielded with the bases they come on. Now, you may (like I did when marines went to 32mm bases) want to rebase your existing models so that they are consistent with any new models, but doing so isn't required and if you don't, you can just go on fielding them with the bases the models originally came with. For example, I have a bunch of chaos bikers on the pill shaped bases. All 3 squads are on such bases so I haven't had a desire to rebase them. Now, when I paint up my daemonette seeker models, which come on the newer oval bases, I will probably rebase my bikes... or I may not, if the two don't look odd next to each other on different bases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Correct, you do not need to change the base sizes on your models. The exception is if you go to a tournament and they require the most up-to-date base sizes for a given unit, then if you want to use a unit it must be up to date. I'll be updating my 3rd edition Havocs to be on ginormous 40mm bases soon for that reason, and it's going to look so silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 My Havocs will not change from their 25mm bases (same with all my Marines!) There's not enough time for such grand rebasing work, less so when I can spend that time on new models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maschinenpriester Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 I just based all my csm on 32 mm bases. I will not rebase my havocs, because then i can also switch them out within csm and chosen squads... I think it looks A lot nicer when they all have the same base size.maybe ill get some adapter rings- some which dont have to be glued on, so that i can be flexible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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