little hope in CA for GK's

[Corvus Fortis]

I think, if there were any rule changes, they would teased it already. Considering, 26 pts termies were in the same rumors with full smite... that's all, folks!

[Sweetcurse]

Worst part is, these reductions just shut us up. We can’t point out the problems anymore without everyone piling on that we got a ton of point reductions. Reductions that do nothing.

[Capt. Mytre]

Apothecary - 75 (Was 90 = -15p)
BroCap - 110 (Was 150 = -40p)
BroAnc - 90 (Was 128 = -38p)
BroChamp - 90 (Was 113 = -23p)
Chappy - 105 (Was 144 = -39p)
Dread -  65 (Was 87 = -22p)
GM - 130 (Was 160 = -30p)
GMNDK - 170 (Was 190 = -20p)
Interceptors - 21 (Was 23 = -2p)
LR - 200 (Was 239 = -39p)
LRC - 200 (Was 244 = -44p)
LRR - 180 (Was 244 = -64)
Libby - 113 (Was 157 = -44p)
PallyAnc - 98 (Was 140 = -42p)
Pallies - 47 (Was 53 = --6p)
Puries - 19 (Was 26 = -7p)
Razor - 70 (Was 70 = carried over)
Servitors - 5 (Was 2 = +3p) ?
SR - 192 (Was 192 = carried over)
TechMarine - 55 (Was 91 = -44p) [Even cheaper still, servo arms dropped from 12 > 0 and plasma cutters from 7 > 5]
Termies - 39 (Was 41 = -2p)
VenDread - 85 (Was 110 = -25p)

Stern - 105 (Was 157 = -52p)
Crowe - 80 (Was 125 = -45p)
Voldus - 153 (Was 190 = -37p)
Draigo - 180 (Was 240 = -60p)

 

Hurricane Bolters - 10 (Was 20 = -10p)
H. Incinerator - 19 (Was 40 = -21p)
H. Psycannon - 24 (Was 30 = -6p)
Incinerator - 9 (Was 14 = -5p)
Psycannon - 7 (11 for termies) (Was 14/20 = -7/9p)
Psilencer for Termies - 8 (Was 10 = -2p)
Incinerator for termies - 13 (Was 20 = -7p)
Twinlas - 40 (Was 50 = -10p)
Twin MM - 40  (Was 54 = -14p)
Typhoon - 38 (Was 50 = -12p)
ML - 20 (Was 25 = -5p)

Plasma Cannon - 16 (Was 21 = -5p)

Twin Assault Cannon - 44 (Was 44 = carried over)

 

TWIN LINKED PLASMA CANNONS ARE NOW CORRECTLY COSTED LOL. 60p > 24p

 

My take away from all this is that you never use strikes again, just use Interceptors with a loyal 32 for your CP. Then spam the out of characters.

 

EDIT: Unless there are rule changes of course.

[Corvus Fortis]

My 2000 pts points list is 1683 now, which is another GMNDK and an Apothecary. Now I'll be tabled in 4 turns, not in 3.

[Matt_149]

Thank you capt. Mytre for that

[Panzer]

Wow 39ppm for a Terminator. That's way too much when regular Terminators cost only 23ppm.

 

A quick comparison:

Regular Terminator (23ppm) + Powerfist (9ppm) + Stormbolter (2ppm) = 34ppm

GK Terminator (39ppm) + Hammer because it's the best to compare with a fist (15ppm) + Stormbolter (2ppm) = 56ppm

The difference is the GK unit being a psyker, D3 instead of D1d3 and them being Troops instead of Elite. However no matter that 22ppm/110p per unit more seems way too much. For those 110p one could get almost a whole second unit of those regular Terminators which I'd say is worth more than the GK unit being a psyker and doing D3 instead of D1d3.

[Corvus Fortis]

Also keep in mind, that there are very little point increases across  many armies and lots of point drops. For example, my nid mate got his 2000 pts army cheaper by 150 points. So, my army will have only 170 points advantage, not 320. And this is only one out of many.

[Panzer]

Also keep in mind, that there are very little point increases across  many armies and lots of point drops. For example, my nid mate got his 2000 pts army cheaper by 150 points. So, my army will have only 170 points advantage, not 320. And this is only one out of many.

 

Only by 150p cheaper. My Tyranid playing friend looks at a 300+ points cheaper army as well lol

[Trollbeard]

So is that all? Just point decreases? Anyone spotted anything about rights of banishment?

[Holier Than Thou]

Very disappointed (but not surprised) if these are genuine.

[Shinkosh]

If those are the genuine new points (which from the semi bad photos) then I am not impressed. After all that chat on the community site about 'Grey Knights being the big winners', I'm just not seeing it.

 

And given there complete lack of rites of banishment chat and discussion on other forums I think that was a fake leak.

[techsoldaten]

If those are the genuine new points (which from the semi bad photos) then I am not impressed. After all that chat on the community site about 'Grey Knights being the big winners', I'm just not seeing it.

 

And given there complete lack of rites of banishment chat and discussion on other forums I think that was a fake leak.

 

I was the one who brought up the point decreases on Terminators and Strikes. Have been looking at the points changes on imgur, surprised to learn they were incorrect.

 

Still optimistic about Rites of Banishment changes, since that came from the original French live stream. I suspect there's a lot more to this.

[newdigitalGK]

tbh my first reaction is this is BS

 

it's an apparent grab for people to buy more models to fit in the 2K list, GW was talking up larger games which didn't pan out so I think to push that agenda they lowered points to push that higher model count on the board.

[Captain Coolpants]

Well we can all see that we have been let down. But its still technically a better position than we were in before.

 

Now with these reductions. Any changes in how we'll build our lists?

Any of you now considering incinerators or psycannons?

 

Maybe some of us will throw in a purifier squad instead of a strike squad?

 

Maybe we should be discussing theses changes in a somewhat positive manner?

 

Ya'know. Trying to make the best out of a bad situation an all.

[Chronos Darkhelmet]

Wow 39ppm for a Terminator. That's way too much when regular Terminators cost only 23ppm.

 

A quick comparison:

Regular Terminator (23ppm) + Powerfist (9ppm) + Stormbolter (2ppm) = 34ppm

GK Terminator (39ppm) + Hammer because it's the best to compare with a fist (15ppm) + Stormbolter (2ppm) = 56ppm

The difference is the GK unit being a psyker, D3 instead of D1d3 and them being Troops instead of Elite. However no matter that 22ppm/110p per unit more seems way too much. For those 110p one could get almost a whole second unit of those regular Terminators which I'd say is worth more than the GK unit being a psyker and doing D3 instead of D1d3.

Actually I'd do the comparison between PF/SB Vanillas and ours armed with whatever you want *but* hammers:

 

Vanilla: 23 + 9 + 2 = 34 ppm

TAGK: 39 + 0 + 2 = 41 ppm

 

In the case of hammer, I'd do the comparison with the TH/SS Vanillas:

 

Vanilla: 23 + 21 + 2 = 46 ppm

TAGK: 39 + 13 + 2 = 54 ppm

 

That means anyway an *insane* difference of +7 and +8 ppm on the two variants, which is substantially justified by being Troops (ok, if hordes weren't a thing in this game) + psykers (that is honestly the single game phase which current 40K is still fine without). Basically, being Troops should come for free, and the combined effect of psykers and force weapons should lift the Termies' cost by just ~3-4 pts up wrt Vanillas (i.e. the rumored cost change before leaks) :)

[Panzer]

Why the hell do you think comparing a Terminator unit hitting at S8 AP-3 D1d3 with a Terminator unit hitting at S4 AP0 D1 makes more sense than to compare it with a Terminator unit hitting at S8 AP-3 D3? 

[newdigitalGK]

Is there even any reason to take a NDK over a GMNDK even more so now? And I'm being serious, for what reason would you take a regular NDK?

[Corvus Fortis]

 But its still technically a better position than we were in before.

 

 

It is questionable, if we are in a better position. Happen what I was feared most - drastic point drops all over the board with little increases. It will take time for a meta to settle down, but you are not becoming stronger when everyone becoming stronger. I can throw 15 more strikes, while my mate can throw another dakkafex. It isn't a win at all. 

[Irbis]

Why the hell do you think comparing a Terminator unit hitting at S8 AP-3 D1d3 with a Terminator unit hitting at S4 AP0 D1 makes more sense than to compare it with a Terminator unit hitting at S8 AP-3 D3? 

 

Eh, to be fair, GK termies have access to far superior weapons compared to other loyalists. Just compare lightning claw with virtually any nemesis weapon, both cost nearly the same and GK ones blow "cheap" loyalist option out of the water. And even fist with the current points cut is -1 to hit, most SM players would love to take GK option instead...

[Panzer]

 

Why the hell do you think comparing a Terminator unit hitting at S8 AP-3 D1d3 with a Terminator unit hitting at S4 AP0 D1 makes more sense than to compare it with a Terminator unit hitting at S8 AP-3 D3? 

 

Eh, to be fair, GK termies have access to far superior weapons compared to other loyalists. Just compare lightning claw with virtually any nemesis weapon, both cost nearly the same and GK ones blow "cheap" loyalist option out of the water. And even fist with the current points cut is -1 to hit, most SM players would love to take GK option instead...

 

 

That ... was completey beside the point?

[Waking Dreamer]

My 2000 pts points list is 1683 now, which is another GMNDK and an Apothecary. Now I'll be tabled in 4 turns, not in 3.

 

A 33% increase in your army's survivability then. lol

 

Off the top of my head, I'll get at least another 10 Interceptors and some more points to spare.

[Chronos Darkhelmet]

Why the hell do you think comparing a Terminator unit hitting at S8 AP-3 D1d3 with a Terminator unit hitting at S4 AP0 D1 makes more sense than to compare it with a Terminator unit hitting at S8 AP-3 D3?

S4 AP0 D1??? Honestly, in CQC it's a minimum S4 AP-2 Dd3 *bonus* (usually +1 atk) vs S8 AP-3 Dd3 with -1 to hit :P

 

And it is actually the fairest way to compare, since I have playtested several hammers (not only GK) in this game and can assure you that flat 3 dmg make a *huge* difference vs d3 only ;)

[Panzer]

 

Why the hell do you think comparing a Terminator unit hitting at S8 AP-3 D1d3 with a Terminator unit hitting at S4 AP0 D1 makes more sense than to compare it with a Terminator unit hitting at S8 AP-3 D3?

S4 AP0 D1??? Honestly, in CQC it's a minimum S4 AP-2 Dd3 *bonus* (usually +1 atk) vs S8 AP-3 Dd3 with -1 to hit

 

And it is actually the fairest way to compare, since I have playtested several hammers (not only GK) in this game and can assure you that flat 3 dmg make a *huge* difference vs d3 only

 

 

Alright my mistake for forgetting the basic force weapon, it still makes way less sense. You say D3 makes a lot of difference. I don't disagree. But let me tell you that -1 to-hit and S8 makes even more of a difference and literally the only weapon that comes with those stats is the hammer lol

 

So yeah I still heavily disagree. The hammer is closer than any other force weapon to a fist whether you like it or not.

[Holier Than Thou]

Well we can all see that we have been let down. But its still technically a better position than we were in before.

We’re not though, are we? We get to put a few more models down but everyone else also gets to put a few more down as well. And their extra models are likely better than our extra models. We’re probably actually in a worse position now, if that’s even possible.

[Corvus Fortis]

A 33% increase in your army's survivability then. lol

 

 

33%? How? To gain 33% of survivability by 10 wounds, one must have 30 wounds total in the whole army. 10 more interceptors? Ok, my DA mate will need another hellblaster activation.