Triszin Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 so, if the men of iron are to be coming back, even in a smaller scale. how do you peeps think they will react, who will they side with? or will they end up kinda like the kroot, working as mercenaris, masquerading as automatons in exchange for tech they want/need? I could see the Men of Iron doing 1of 3 things. 1. The threat of Chaos is so great, that some ancient bygone code has become active, protect humanity from imminent extinction. - as a result, the few that are left, and searching for ways to help humanity survive the present chaos threat. - they will either work in secret, or few higher ups in the imperium will be aware, GUilliman, cawl, and the MEn of iron masquerade as agents of the primarch/cawl. 2. THey seek to save humanity from chaos and prevent their extinction, but are not allied or helped by them. they will even figh imperium from time to time. - UR-025 will upload himself intot he blackstone fortress and start to produce bodies for the men of iron, the ones that have survived in secret will flock to them. - they will establish a empire in a small subsector in an area with no inhabitable worlds, and will slowly create new men of iron. - the new men of iron will work as mercanries for almost any force, in exchange for advanced technology, either dark ages/pre fall humanity, or old one/necron tech. 3. They have been searching for something to assist their species, a blackstone fortress is something that can help bring back the men of iron. - In addition they set up a small alliance with the TAU, however this adds further worries for the readers perspective. - The Men of Iron do not tell the whole truth to the tau, and the tau accept them in. - AI that rose against their masters and attempted to destroy them, and lost. now these same ai and interweaving themselves in a society that uses ai frequently. - this could eventually lead to a massive AI revolt in the tau empire, triggering a new civilwar. or - The Men of Iron assist the tau, and ai, advance the tau's ai, but at the same time establishing a "code of savior protocols" ------ Tau Drones, or AI drones in general will sacrifice themselves to save Organic tau species, or similarly advanced levels of AI. men of iron, Aun'va and so on. ------ Additionally, Advanced AI, beyond drones will be treated as citizens of the Tau Empire and gain all of the rights as citizens, and protection services. - men of iron attempt to help curate tau society so that, so that a AI uprising would not occur, additionally, the Men of Iron provide services to the tau, such as detection subversive threats. ( chaos cults, gene cults, rogue tau ai, rogue ai). I kinda would like the men of iron to do a mix of it all. THe loyal Men of Iron secretly assist the imperium, and the super higher ups are aware of them and work with them, knowing they need to advance the imperiums tech to survive, imperium provides protection and assests. Non loyal ai, that see the current imperium as death, now go to the tau, with requirements, Advanced ai are treated as equals, humans under tau protection must be allowed, and helped in survival of the species if the imperium falls. ( men of iron would then be equals to the tau, and all the other species are equal but lesser) both forces end up doing mercenary work for advanced tech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gederas Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 so, if the men of iron are to be coming back, even in a smaller scale. how do you peeps think they will react, who will they side with? or will they end up kinda like the kroot, working as mercenaris, masquerading as automatons in exchange for tech they want/need? I could see the Men of Iron doing 1of 3 things. 1. The threat of Chaos is so great, that some ancient bygone code has become active, protect humanity from imminent extinction. - as a result, the few that are left, and searching for ways to help humanity survive the present chaos threat. - they will either work in secret, or few higher ups in the imperium will be aware, GUilliman, cawl, and the MEn of iron masquerade as agents of the primarch/cawl. 2. THey seek to save humanity from chaos and prevent their extinction, but are not allied or helped by them. they will even figh imperium from time to time. - UR-025 will upload himself intot he blackstone fortress and start to produce bodies for the men of iron, the ones that have survived in secret will flock to them. - they will establish a empire in a small subsector in an area with no inhabitable worlds, and will slowly create new men of iron. - the new men of iron will work as mercanries for almost any force, in exchange for advanced technology, either dark ages/pre fall humanity, or old one/necron tech. 3. They have been searching for something to assist their species, a blackstone fortress is something that can help bring back the men of iron. - In addition they set up a small alliance with the TAU, however this adds further worries for the readers perspective. - The Men of Iron do not tell the whole truth to the tau, and the tau accept them in. - AI that rose against their masters and attempted to destroy them, and lost. now these same ai and interweaving themselves in a society that uses ai frequently. - this could eventually lead to a massive AI revolt in the tau empire, triggering a new civilwar. or - The Men of Iron assist the tau, and ai, advance the tau's ai, but at the same time establishing a "code of savior protocols" ------ Tau Drones, or AI drones in general will sacrifice themselves to save Organic tau species, or similarly advanced levels of AI. men of iron, Aun'va and so on. ------ Additionally, Advanced AI, beyond drones will be treated as citizens of the Tau Empire and gain all of the rights as citizens, and protection services. - men of iron attempt to help curate tau society so that, so that a AI uprising would not occur, additionally, the Men of Iron provide services to the tau, such as detection subversive threats. ( chaos cults, gene cults, rogue tau ai, rogue ai). I kinda would like the men of iron to do a mix of it all. THe loyal Men of Iron secretly assist the imperium, and the super higher ups are aware of them and work with them, knowing they need to advance the imperiums tech to survive, imperium provides protection and assests. Non loyal ai, that see the current imperium as death, now go to the tau, with requirements, Advanced ai are treated as equals, humans under tau protection must be allowed, and helped in survival of the species if the imperium falls. ( men of iron would then be equals to the tau, and all the other species are equal but lesser) both forces end up doing mercenary work for advanced tech. I like all of those ideas and could see all of them potentially happening. I also like the theory that Men of Iron were originally benevolent, but due to errors in the code attacked mankind. Like a Zeroth Law (A robot may not harm humanity, or, by inaction, allow humanity to come to harm./A robot may not harm a human being, unless he finds a way to prove that ultimately the harm done would benefit humanity in general.) situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Plot twist, MoI decide that serving Chaos is the best way to obey the zeroth law and go serve Abbadon. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skaorn Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 I always liked the idea that the war between humans and MoI was started by humans. The MoI deciding that they wanted to be free beings rather than tools of war. Humanity reacted badly to this and sought to bring their war machines back in line and limit their free will. I think the MoI in BSF is just a one off though. Between SM, Necrons, both sides of the Mechanicum, Custodes, and the Tau, I don't really see a good place for them to stand out. I think the only way to do them justice would be if they were in a 20K game where they would have less competition as a mechanical, elite heavy army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finkmilkana Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Well, the MoI in BFS has the imperium keyword (and the robotica imperialism keyword). This suggests that IF they come back as a larger faction, it will probably (at first) be as an imperium subfaction. But only time will tell. I really hope they won’t end up as a hive mind that churns out highly customized warmsschines and tries to kill everything (even though that seems to be how the imperium thinks AI always acts). But that would just make them into a less fleshy tyranid swarm... I still like to believe that the MoI where pretty human like in intelligence/consciousness. But there was ONE (or at most a few) evil/insane/chaos corrupted/whatever man of iron that simply infected all the STC/Non-sentient AI to start to duplicate himself as a hive mind. Ergo from that point onward, all AI that got produced by humans tried to killed them (because it was based on infected STC tech). Would mean that the ad mech is actually correct in their ban on AI (since all imperial tech contains at least some STC parts), but also explain why there is AI that doesn’t try to kill all humans/tau/whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irbis Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 I kinda would like the men of iron to do a mix of it all. THe loyal Men of Iron secretly assist the imperium, and the super higher ups are aware of them and work with them, knowing they need to advance the imperiums tech to survive, imperium provides protection and assests. Isn't AM kind of opposed to Abominable Intelligence? And would treat cooperating with them as trying to negotiate with Abaddon? Also, I don't see why they would cooperate with Tau, at all. If anything, their only interest in Tau would be a takeover by using their own AI against them and using the resources of the former empire for their own ends, but AI using minor xenos are dime a dozen so if that was a possibility it would have happened during last 10K years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skaorn Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Would the Tau be trusting of actual Strong AI? I don't really think so. I know that they are often presented as recklessly pursing AI, but that is always from the angle of the Imperium who generally don't understand the difference between AI and Spirits, let alone Weak AI and Strong AI. Except for one battlesuit that I know of, all the depictions of Tau AI would fit under Weak AI. When they are autonomous they have simple tasks and are equipped as such. Complex units like battlesuits might have AI support but still require experienced pilots. The Tau have always struck me of being very aware of the dangers of pursuing Strong AI based on what they fielded for drones. What if a Strong AI decided that the Greater Good was bunk or that the Greater Good was best served by removing the Etherials? One way they might be able to introduce another MoI could be through the Necrons. Have one stumble across a tomb world that would not have awoken due to serious malfunctions/insanity and commandeer it. It was able to hack enough of the Necron coding to trigger the reanimation protocols and masquerade as the phaeron due to the Necrons of that tomb world's vulnerable state. Just have it unable to hack awaken Necrons or those still slumbering but still in decent working order. It also doesn't have the control to just have the Necrons under its control to create more MoI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triszin Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 I kinda would like the men of iron to do a mix of it all. THe loyal Men of Iron secretly assist the imperium, and the super higher ups are aware of them and work with them, knowing they need to advance the imperiums tech to survive, imperium provides protection and assests. Isn't AM kind of opposed to Abominable Intelligence? And would treat cooperating with them as trying to negotiate with Abaddon? Also, I don't see why they would cooperate with Tau, at all. If anything, their only interest in Tau would be a takeover by using their own AI against them and using the resources of the former empire for their own ends, but AI using minor xenos are dime a dozen so if that was a possibility it would have happened during last 10K years... its been hinted/ suggested that Cawl uses AI. Cawl the inferior might actually end up being a AI. or my personal theory Cawl the inferior is the real cawl. and the thing that walks around pretending to be cawl is a Man of Iron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 I don't think Cawl uses AI. Just as he says drones with extremely developed protocols and subroutines. Developed enough for people who don't know the difference to become suspicious sure, but not the same. It's the kind of borderline heresy Cawl likes to do and why people don't want to see him leading Mars despite his skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irbis Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 its been hinted/ suggested that Cawl uses AI. Cawl the inferior might actually end up being a AI. or my personal theory Cawl the inferior is the real cawl. and the thing that walks around pretending to be cawl is a Man of Iron Yes, but Cawl is rather... unorthodox and RG keeps him hidden from the rest of Mechanicus precisely because he is afraid they would just shout HERESY! and start firing in his general direction. Purely on the basis of his bio-research, mind you, never mind anyone even being aware of his AI experiments. If they knew Cawl is dabbling with AI you can bet delegation from Mars would be doing a lot of angry shouting before the High Lords... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted November 14, 2018 Author Share Posted November 14, 2018 Is Cawl the oldest Mechanicus magos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 If I recall correctly there are others similar to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 An interesting snippet from the Warhammer TV painting guide: “There’s something about the power claw carried by Imperial Robot UR-205 - probably nothing... but it just looks a lot older than it should.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mother of the Cult Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 I want an army of metal husbandos. But i have some doubts: + I think its a case of exploring in a local manner something will never happend in standar game. +UR 025 its an standar or more advanced Men of Iron? becouse his stats are powerfull enought to shadow all space marines if he is a standar warrior ( i dont know so much about some bits of history in the novels about MoI ). +Make and army of them will destroy some of the mith of the Dark Age of Technologi and Strife, not sure if this is good friend. Some times, some histories must stay better whitout be knowed for a better setting imo. +Give me now my robot pals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 UR-025 might be the MoI equivalent of a janitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doghouse Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 This is how I am going to be using mine: Personally speaking I would be surprised if we saw an army of them, these specialist games I think are the ideal setting to introduce characters that would get lost in the vast expanse of the lore of 40k. Things like pirates and outcasts, in some respects in the same way some of the novels focus on more exotic characters but having said that they could also be used as test beds to judge player reaction and interest. I'm hoping it's just a cool little nod to the MoI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Pretty sure we won't see a MoI army for regular 40k. As said before they use these kind of games to explore things from the 40k universe that don't fit with the regular 40k game. MoI would be the best example of such a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 UR-205 is getting a story in the BL advent calendar. Intriguing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted November 22, 2018 Author Share Posted November 22, 2018 Finally, this year’s Advent Calendar also includes a trio of tales from the heart of the Blackstone Fortress, each focusing on different explorers who brave the twisting labyrinths and xenos horrors that wait within. Rein and Raus, the Ratling twins, will face their past on Precipice, and Taddeus the Purifier will be tested to the limits of his faith in the God-Emperor. And then there’s a story about UR-025, the “Imperial Robot”… https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/21/coming-soon-the-2018-black-library-advent-calendar/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astalon Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Is it just me, or does the man of iron not look as advanced as you were expecting? To me it sort of looks like something from a 19th century sci-fi novel, rather than from the DoT. I thought we might get something that felt like it was from an Iain Banks Culture novel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 If he'd look as advanced as we'd expect then he couldn't hide and act as if he were just a simple AdMech drone so I'd say that's on purpose. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted November 22, 2018 Author Share Posted November 22, 2018 Exactly, it has to look sufficiently clunky to masquerade as an "Imperial robot" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doghouse Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 I think that if they went with a true dark age of technology design it'd probably be something more like a cloud of nanites. I quite like this design as it passes for Imperial tech but there is something much more sinister inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Iron Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 I think that if they went with a true dark age of technology design it'd probably be something more like a cloud of nanites. I quite like this design as it passes for Imperial tech but there is something much more sinister inside. It could be nanites, or smething similar, which may enable them to control or replace "machine spirits" or rewrite robotic programming. They may not be a hivemind as much of a truly single brain. I like the design as it fits in with the Imperium's use of STC technology. Who may say some of the robotic forms currently in use aren't of Men of Iron design that have been reinterpreted by the Adeptus Mechanicus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 I think that if they went with a true dark age of technology design it'd probably be something more like a cloud of nanites. I quite like this design as it passes for Imperial tech but there is something much more sinister inside. I always thought of Men of Iron technology similar to Necron technology just without metal skeletons and obviously egyptian influences ... probably just because we know basically nothing about them and Necrons are the most technological advanced faction we have models for in 40k tho lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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