Non-40K Character homages: Harmless fun or cringeworthy?

[Evil Eye]

As the title would imply, what's the B&C community's opinion on original characters for 40K based on existing characters from media other than 40K? I'm not talking about literal "Darth Vader appeared in the grim darkness of the far future" by the way, I'm talking about expies/"totally not" characters. My personal opinion on it is that like any character concept, it's only as good or bad as the execution- I don't think it's sacrilege (40K is no stranger to homage and silliness in general), but it does have to be done well. I've considered doing some minis based on some of my favourite characters from various things, though obviously if it's something that's widely frowned upon in the community/an open invitation for mockery I might reconsider!

[Charlo]

Enough said.

 

[alfred_the_great]

Enough said.

 

Yup- 1e and 2e had all this kind of stuff, and I suspect some of it is still around in 8e. Do the Black Templars still have Holy Orbs of Antioch, as an example?

[Evil Eye]

Do you have a license for that Jokaero?

[Master Commander Ajax]

It's your hobby, if you want to do it then go for it! 

[Lord_Caerolion]

I think, at least now, it depends on how it's handled. A totally-not-Darth-Vader could work if it was, say, a psker Inquisitor with extensive bionics who wears modified black power armour, and carries a power sword. If it was modelled to be literally Darth Vader, just saying "and this is the Captain of my homebrew Chapter, the Imperial Stormtroopers, Captain Vader", then that's a bit much. As long as there's some effort to make it fit, it's fine. Plus, as has been shown above, GW hasn't been above some ridiculous references in the past.

[Vykes]

Aye, like Lord Caerolion said, it's really more or less about the subtlety and handling of the reference in question.  Personally, not only do I like them, I tend to encourage them as a way to find inspiration to do something unique or just kinda quirky.  It's like slipping things past the censors on TV, you can get it and just smirk a bit if you notice it but it's not gonna be a big distraction if not.  

Every one of my armies features at least 1 and I usually strive for more.

[Soldier of Dorn]

I mean, you say it yourself: "they have to be done well." I think that goes for everything someone does in 40k. Having referential characters in 40k is no different from having anything else in 40k -- we should aspire to be do it well. If something is done badly, it's done badly. If it's done well, it's done well. I personally haven't seen any stigma associated with it beyond that, and I am hard pressed to imagine any such besides it.

[toaae]

If done well*, I have no problem, even if it's from something I don't have any knowledge of.
 

*By well, I mean there is an attempt at transformation. Not just an insert from another history or setting, but rather something that feels like it fits cleanly and without contradiction, where someone ignorant of its origin wouldn't be able to tell it wasn't from 40k first.

[Ratherdashing]

When my Guard playing friend got Australian style hats in a bin of bits I persuaded him to make a Marbo counts-as modeled after Saxton Hale. I regret nothing.

[NiceGuyAdi]

Sly Marbo, a gloriously shameless homage to/knock-off of Rambo is another example of GW doing this. He provides some welcome levity in all the grimdark, but he works because he’s the most Catachan of the Catachans.

 

They key will be keeping the characters consistent within the army they’re part of, rather than looking like an afterthought.

[NatBrannigan]

My Tempestor Prime is modelled after Sharpe, since my Tempestus are painted (or, they will be, I'm a busy man!) to look like the 95th rifles. He carries an Ad-mech rifle and powersword. I've also replaced the Volley gun on one of my command squad with the Kharadon Overlords Volley gun to represent Harper.

 

Pretty much WYSIWYG (apart from the rifle) and adds a little character. No different to "Captain Cain" of the Praetorians or the aforementioned Sly Marbo really. There's plenty of Game Workshop characters that are amusing little references. I'm not sure it's a bad thing to take the game not so seriously.

 

I guess you could take it too far though. Mutant Teenage Ninja Salamanders might be a but much!

[Doghouse]

Go for it, GW has been doing it for decades.

 

The Primarchs are probably the worst offenders for this but even Pedro Cantor of the Crimson Fists is named after a friend of the studio years back called Pete Cantor.

 

I've done loads of conversions over the years including the likes of Boba Fett, Stormtrooper space marine chapter called the Sons of Vader and even Rogue Trooper made from a scout marine. 

 

It's always been a long standing tradition within the hobby so go for it mate. :tu:

[Chaplain Killmer]

Many of the Characters that we know today were generated by lists that were used to generate traits to characters for armies / warbands. So naming was more or less always either cheeky or awkward :)

[Stormborn]

Personally I think it is awesome and totally in keeping with RT era.  (I eagerly await  an Inquisikillmunda Team based on Enid Blyton's Famous Five)  Seriously, the hobby is a personal thing and no one should be discouraged from doing what they want with their dudes, there is no right way to 40K!

[Panzer]

As with everything, they are your models and you have to like what you do with them but the more efford you put into making them fit the 40k universe the more likely it is that other people will like what you did as well. ^^

[Marshal Rohr]

It depends. You see a lot of flavor of the month themes every time a cool new war movie, historical, or fantasy show comes out. When your space marine chapter master Jan Snew is the youngest chapter master of the Watchers of the Night chapter, its cringey. When you take the cool traits that make things cool in their original stories and shape something that is your own, its awesome. So as fun as Obi-Wan the Pink Panther is, that's a little on the nose.

[Beams]

It depends. You see a lot of flavor of the month themes every time a cool new war movie, historical, or fantasy show comes out. When your space marine chapter master Jan Snew is the youngest chapter master of the Watchers of the Night chapter, its cringey. When you take the cool traits that make things cool in their original stories and shape something that is your own, its awesome. So as fun as Obi-Wan the Pink Panther is, that's a little on the nose.

I think it depends on how much work you put into it.

 

If Chapter Master John Snow is modeled in an interesting, but John Snow like pose, I'm thinking sword in ground, hands on sword, with long flowing hair and a black fluffy cape, on a base covered in snow painted well, I feel like most people are going to think it's cool.

 

On the other hand, if John Snow is a bog standard marine, with short hair, no cape and a power maul on a lava base, it's going to be cringey.

[Schlitzaf]

I think the references work, when the references aren’t known, but the character fits and is awesome anyways.

1) Marbo; legit didn’t realize he was Rambo reference, I presumed maybe he was a Chuck Norris one. But I thought he was ‘awesome’ anyways, because all the things described in the Fifth Ed Book sounded like those things new players brag about. Like “my sargeant Bro had done all this and the other thing.”

 

So while you know it might be overglorified but that was the point. It wasn’t that Marbo himself did all that, but the legend of Marbo did that. Which honestly just fit the feeling of 40k. Where hopelessness is everywhere, but in the hopelessness and darkness is born legends.

 

2) They don’t feel out of place. The Holy Orb of Antioch while being a Monty Python reference. Worked within 40k because how borque it comes off. And Black Templars having such a weapon. And espacially that is a reference to one of the longest standing Crusader States, Prinicipa lity of Antioch. Without evening knowing the actual reference it works.

 

So if you lack the reference itself but terms themselves fit for a variety of reason. It works, is when something doesn’t work is when the reference itself is a lost point. A weird example for me here.

 

Is OG Necrons, lore wise, I despise OG Necrons. Models I found them bland. Why? While I understood cognitively they were a Terminator Reference. The whole idea behind an ancient force undefeatable, without personhood. For me was not 40k. While you had Tyranids, which I am okay with. Necrons were something just lost to me. Remove the Terminator and Cthulhu references, what do you have?

 

Something not just alien to 40k, but something doesn’t belong in 40k. 40k is all about “you” matter (not you in the individual you, you as societal you matter). Like take the battle between Emperor and Horus. It’s battle of gods, but the meaning is the battle of the individual. Emperor fought Horus, and almost lost not because he the individual, he the human was weak, because he the human was strong.

 

He was too strong to willingly vanquish his most beloved son. He had to banish himself, to do the deed. And when He, The God Emperor of Mankind, his strength borne from his humanity was too strength, had to make the sacrifice, showcased, ‘you’ matter. The Imperium and the Universe doesn’t care for you. No one really does. But in the same way, everyone is valued. Your decisions ‘matter’. The danger of chaos is precisely because individuals matter and they want to reject the machine like lifestyle of mankind.

 

Tau in their insidious whisper and draw you away from the Emperor. But it’s still your decision. It’s your decision. And in the case of Horus to return to that.

 

It was the culmination of the Primarch’s Sanganius making the chip (and if the foreshadowing is believed enlarging the chip made by Leman). They mattered, making the dent that allowed Emperor to win. And finally to bring the setting back.

 

Elder and Slaanash, the Fall was the Eldar decision to give into depravity without a second thought. It was their societal decision. And those who didn’t? Who fled? They lived, creating three of the four Eldar races today. And every day the Eldar struggle outside Commarragh to stave Her off. They must choose every day to dedicate them selves to preserve themselves.

 

OG Necrons and lesser extent Tyranids, in that respect don’t belong. The “You” doesn’t matter, while they make a neat reference. But it misses what makes 40k, 40k. In that in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only War.

 

Not only slaughters and capricious gods, or uncaring societies. There is only war. Pardon the tangent, but to answer the question. Something works when the thing itself is a reference too isn’t needed to make it belong.

[N1SB]

Hi Brother Squigsquasher, thanks for asking, plus it's a smart idea to test the waters 1st in any case.

As the title would imply, what's the B&C community's opinion on original characters for 40K based on existing characters from media other than 40K? I'm not talking about literal "Darth Vader appeared in the grim darkness of the far future" by the way, I'm talking about expies/"totally not" characters. My personal opinion on it is that like any character concept, it's only as good or bad as the execution- I don't think it's sacrilege (40K is no stranger to homage and silliness in general), but it does have to be done well. I've considered doing some minis based on some of my favourite characters from various things, though obviously if it's something that's widely frowned upon in the community/an open invitation for mockery I might reconsider!

Yeah, about that, here's something from our local Warhammer Store:

And then he followed up with this. Counts as an Armiger Helverin:

Everything is made from official GW components. It was like a reverse-proxy. Made me lol. I swear, when you make someone laugh, it gives you a lot of leeway.

But Brother, I'm curious, what are your ideas please, if you don't mind sharing.

[Bryan Blaire]

My entire DIY Marine Chapter is built on homages/adaptations from other stories (and honestly not very well done), and it's fun when people can pick them out without me having to point them to them, but at the same time, I think you have to let your homages take on their own lives in your story for them. If too many details are the same, or the story is somehow a "what they did in the other story, but crammed into 40K," then unless the adaptation is done well, it can be a bit obvious and jarring to the surrounding 40K narrative.

 

Direct lifts are the things that make me shake my head or outright cringe - the Empire from Star Wars, or the Rebels for that matter, such as the use of symbols and directs colorations without any alteration, are going to stand out, IMO (Edit: :lol: Just noticed the post right before mine), as something not 40K, however, the Rift Stalkers or Black Guard Chapters with some Imperial Stormtrooper allusions would probably work great, and the Flame Eagles/Fire Hawks in forest camo with some Endor-ian Rebel forces styling would likely fit in as well.

 

Getting a little more creative, using the Rebel ship Trooper color patterns from the first time Vader assaults the Tantive IV on Ad Mech forces with a black cog pattern and Tribune Raimes Antillion commanding wouldn't be out of place, nor would his support from the aforementioned Rift Stalkers commanded by Grand Captain Wilheim Tarvus and Draaken Wandevar, Tenebrae Dominai of the Librarius, with his red Force sword - all the while you know exactly where they came from, and others might wonder, but it's not in your face - it's a sly wink.

 

(Dammit, now I have ideas)

[Trevak Dal]

Inquisitor Obiwan is wearing bell bottoms, platform shoes a ying yang t-shirt and a fuzzy pimp hat.

 

And is showing poor trigger discipline.

 

Back in 5th edition, I made Commander Shepard (ordo xenos inquisitor from grey knights book) with a Kroot vindicare (Garrus), Lizardman Templeguard as a crusader (Wrex), human in pink armor (kaiden-he always died first), a Tau Earth caste and drones for a Jokaero (mordin).

 

My first space marines I ever painted were Delta Squad from Gears of War along with Noble Team from Halo Reach.

 

I tried a delicate Kroot/lizardman conversion to make Sanghelli/Elites from Halo (specifically I wanted to make The Arbiter and run the 4th edition Black Templar book with him being the Emperor's Champion, neophytes being grunts/skinks didn't sit well with me though) but gave up on it.

 

I have a Tau gun drone thats R2 (he's killed primarchs and avatars-he would draw inordinate and rediculous amounts of fire)

 

I'm currently looking at taking reiver helmets, carving the skull and eye lenses down smooth and fashioning a plasticard visor to "complete the look" of a Spartan 2 helmet for my Primaris marines.

 

I kind of want to remake Noble Team for kill team using Deathwatch with 1 primaris (sadly without a heavy Bolter)

[Bryan Blaire]

Inquisitor Obiwan is wearing bell bottoms, platform shoes a ying yang t-shirt and a fuzzy pimp hat.

 

And is showing poor trigger discipline.

:lol: I thought those were leg warmers! (Which are so much more 80s, IMO)

[Trevak Dal]

I'd love to do a Spartan themed Primaris army. Ally in storm troopers done up like ODSTs (hate the ghost buster proton pack look of hotshots though).

 

That line in Halo 4 at the end gave me chills "Our duty, as soldiers is to defend Earth and her colonies, at all cost." The way Master Chief speaks, just flat, terse is how I imagine "American" Astartes would be. (Note: the Master Chief and all Spartans are not in fact American. Steve Downes just has a baller voice)

 

My Black Legion are part Universal Soldier part Clone troopers part Spartan as rogue operators.

 

If Orks were more like Warcraft Orcs (warrior savages) and not gangbanger fungus monster soccer hooligans/hoodrats (with 'lol it's funny' dumb rules) I might have gotten into them.

 

As it is...my World Eaters are pretty much Astartes as Warcraft Orcs. But not with skulls and :cuss hanging off them and only the champs have the bunny ears (to make them easier to pick out) as 1. I don't want to paint all that :cuss, and 2. It would be impractical to clean a skull mid battle, And even less so to carry it with you. I mostly didn't want to paint all the extra stuff.

[Panzer]

If Orks were more like Warcraft Orcs (warrior savages) and not gangbanger fungus monster soccer hooligans/hoodrats (with 'lol it's funny' dumb rules) I might have gotten into them.

 

I'm glad they aren't. That's pretty much what fantasy Orks were and they were incredibly boring compared to the awesomeness that are the 40k Orks lol