Night Lords Raptors

[dice4thedicegod]

Was thinking of adding a squad of Night Lords Raptors (with plasma weapons) to a night lords / slaaneshi force. Think they are great fluffwise, but how terrible are they crunchwise?

[Mekhitar]

They aren’t competitive - but if you are not fighting competitive games, they can be fine.

 

I have a 5 man Black Legion squad with triple plasma I sometimes use to deepstrike + strat to reroll 1s. They are pretty decent but evaporate under return fire.

 

When I run Night Lords, I like using them for fluff; I usually take a squad of 7 or 8, nurgle marked, and drop a spitelord with the relic claws in their midst. Then I will tag them with the nurgle -1 to hit power and add in the -1 strat, and cross my fingers. I had them absorb a whole army of shooting (or rather, what was left by t2 when they came in). They died to the man, but delivered the jump lord right into the delicious psyker ball of my opponent, which he then deleted.

 

They are expensive and as fragile as marines, but fluff is fluff. If you want a more durable unit, bikes might be a better bet.

 

I also have some raptors with melta, but I don’t field them in 8th.

[Sonoftherubric21]

In large batches they are not competitive; but I would argue the smaller "focused" squads are in fact great for their points. 
 

My black legion uses the 5 man with Trip-plasma as above, its a very effective "drop and pop" unit. So I think using 1-3 units of Raptors dropping, plugging something off the table with Plasma fire, are quite useful and a decent all around choice. 

A "melee" unit of raptors? are not a good choice. Overpriced for what they do and for around the same cost you can get 10 Base chaos marines with pistol/sword with a rhino, and they will be far more useful overall for around the same points cost. 

[Panzer]

I think they are pretty terrible crunch wise but still good enough for more casual games. Use them as bully unit to pick a fight with weaker units in the opponents backfield instead of trying to use them as sledgehammer that takes on the big threats head on.

[dice4thedicegod]

Thanks guys - that is kinda what I had figured. I'll probably take 5, 3 of which have plasma and make em slaaneshi for 5+ fnp psychic or double shoot strategems.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Thanks guys - that is kinda what I had figured. I'll probably take 5, 3 of which have plasma and make em slaaneshi for 5+ fnp psychic or double shoot strategems.

A "just in case" chainaxe wouldn't hurt either for 1pt.

 

Remember that you only have to be within 6in for Terror Tactics. Fearsome Visage requires you to charge, though.

 

Small Raptor packs just like this are still widely used. Raptors aren't used for much else, though.

[Doom Herald]

I use 2 5 man raptor squads with max plasma with a Jump Lord with max plasma in 1000pt and 1500pt games. Drop the Lord in with them to re-roll 1s. Maxed plasma costs 125pt in a 5 man squad. They drop and shred big targets. 12 super charged shots, 18 with endless cacophony, plus 2 regular from the Lord. Prior to the no turn 1 deep strike, I turn 1 killed a land raider with them. They can still do this, you just have to wait a turn.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Just checking the wording on Raptors

 

2 models can replace there weapons with a plasma pistol and cc weapon or one from the special weapons

 

That means that they can have 2 melta guns yes?

 

Would people rate 3 plasma pistols or 2 melta guns (and possibly a plasma pistol)?

[Lord Abaia]

Just checking the wording on Raptors

 

2 models can replace there weapons with a plasma pistol and cc weapon or one from the special weapons

 

That means that they can have 2 melta guns yes?

 

Would people rate 3 plasma pistols or 2 melta guns (and possibly a plasma pistol)?

Yeah, you can take a special weapon for two of your regular guys. Most people would probably rate plasma (guns or pistols) over melta this edition.

 

I built my raptors in 7th as a melta suicide squad, and they still do okay in 8th. Not being able to drop within half melta range, in addition to the extra point cost works against melta though. I haven't played or messed around with list building since Chapter Approved dropped, but I don't expect anything to have changed enough to make melta a better choice than plasma for Raptors (or for any other units).

[Ghorgul]

 

I built my raptors in 7th as a melta suicide squad, and they still do okay in 8th. Not being able to drop within half melta range, in addition to the extra point cost works against melta though. I haven't played or messed around with list building since Chapter Approved dropped, but I don't expect anything to have changed enough to make melta a better choice than plasma for Raptors (or for any other units).

Yeah, melta is still in really weird spot. The weapon is priced clearly on the assumption that one uses it within 6" of enemy. I wouldn't spam meltagun to every unit even if it's cost was the same with plasmagun, plasmagun just is more flexible. And I do think meltagun should cost the same as plasmagun.

[Trevak Dal]

I use them in support of another unit (5 raptors per 10 chaos marines/chosen) with a helbrute along with as focused heavy support.

 

The CSM/chosen squads are in rhinos, the helbrutes are keeping pace as best they can and the raptors are following. When I get ready to hit something, i try to have everything disembarked and out to shoot, the raptors usually with melta or flamers.

 

I've been brain storming the idea of 5 chosen (with flamers and chain axes) and 5 havocs with heavy bolters riding in a rhino with raptors hopping and chopping.

[Paradigm]

You can take two plasma guns and a combi plasma on the champ. This is what they are talking about. Pistols aren’t bad, but you’re better off just getting the extra shot in from rapid fire, because they’ll evaporate in melee and the pistol won’t matter anyway.

 

I only charge with them situationally when moral is going to matter and I have additional ways to hurt their target’s moral at the same time.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

When combined with Warp Time, Raptors with two flamers and a combiflamer are fast enough to cross no man's land and rip into a light infantry screen. MoS and Endless Cacophony can let you either burninate two squads or just focus down one big blob. Activate VOTLW against T4 targets for better numbers.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

When combined with Warp Time, Raptors with two flamers and a combiflamer are fast enough to cross no man's land and rip into a light infantry screen. MoS and Endless Cacophony can let you either burninate two squads or just focus down one big blob. Activate VOTLW against T4 targets for better numbers.

Don't forget to use a large squad so you can get max benefit from In Midnight Clad and spread the Legion Morale debuff as far as possible. Also, throw Delightful Agonies on before WT. Combined with In Midnight Clad, it makes them hard to kill.

[Doom Herald]

I've wondered how max Flamer squads would do. They can fire, let the enemy charge and fire overwatch, fall back and fire again since they have FLY and repeat.

 

Raptors got a pretty good point drop in Chapter Approved too.

[dice4thedicegod]

I've wondered how max Flamer squads would do. They can fire, let the enemy charge and fire overwatch, fall back and fire again since they have FLY and repeat.

Raptors got a pretty good point drop in Chapter Approved too.

But there’s no deepstriking with flamers due to range 8... doesn’t that create survivability concerns?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

No...you deploy normally and Warp Time them. That's 24" of movement, giving them a 32" effective range.

[Khornestar]

True, but there are probably better candidates for warp time in every list out there. 3 flamers... eh.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Three flamers double firing followed by a charge. I cleared out two squads of cultists and prevented a las/missile Helbrute from shooting the first time I brought this unit out to play.

[Panzer]

6 Flamer shots is nice but don't expect miracles. I regularly field Crisis with either 6 AP-1 flamers or 9 flamers and while I like the unit it's not exactly MVP and only works because it's rather durable (9 T5 Sv3+ wounds and can nulify multi-damage wounds via Drones).

After all 6 Flamer shots are just about 21 S4 hits on average. That's 3-4 dead Marines, ~7 dead T'au Firewarriors/Skitarii Rangers or ~11 dead Cultists. Using Warptime and the Slaanesh Stratagem for that seems like using lots of ressources for a comparably small return.

Now if you fling that squad across the board with intent to charge something so it can bind a unit in melee for at least one turn then using cheap Flamers sounds like a decent option and if you don't have anything else to buff then you can just as well let them shoot twice too but usually you should have something more interesting for that Stratagem at hand.